Route advice needed - Yorkshire and Netherlands/Belgium

[FifeingEejit]

I've come up with a plan to tie in the journey south for the AUK Reunion with a trip to visit a mate in the Netherlands.
Well if I'm as far south as Yorkshire I may as well eh.

For the route to the Kingston of the silent H:
I need to be at 'ull before before 7pm so suspect an after dinner dart isn't an option unless I want to get up really early...
A quick click on RWGPS gives me this: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31053860
On the face of it, it looks reasonable; although a downhill 200 alternative might allow the dart I'm not too fussed.
Anyone got any advice on it?

Into the Low countries:
Route to my mates is basically LF1 from Rotterdam which I presume will be reasonable if a tad windy
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31032459

Route back is to Zeebrugge, a fair bit of LF1 again with corners cut where it seems pointless and deliberate routing through Delft and Brugge
I've only ridden around the Alkmaar area but presume the rest of NL is much the same, but what's the infrastruture in Belgium like? GSV seems to indicate it's much the same.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31031745

[bludger]

Your first leg in NED looks like Eurovelo 12.

https://en.eurovelo.com/ev12

[FifeingEejit]

Your first leg in NED looks like Eurovelo 12.

https://en.eurovelo.com/ev12

Oddly enough, yes it is
https://www.holland-cycling.com/where-to-go/long-distance-cycle-routes/national-long-distance-cycle-network/lf1-north-sea-route-noordzeeroute

[yorkie]

I've come up with a plan to tie in the journey south for the AUK Reunion with a trip to visit a mate in the Netherlands.
Well if I'm as far south as Yorkshire I may as well eh.

For the route to the Kingston of the silent H:
I need to be at 'ull before before 7pm so suspect an after dinner dart isn't an option unless I want to get up really early...
A quick click on RWGPS gives me this: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31053860
On the face of it, it looks reasonable; although a downhill 200 alternative might allow the dart I'm not too fussed.
Anyone got any advice on it?

Speaking personally, I'd avoid the left-right across the A64 between Flaxton and Claxton as it can be a bit of a racetrack as people wind themselves up ready for the upcoming dual-carriageway section. This is only my personal preference, mind!


I'd go left after Sheriff Hutton to Foston and use the (slightly better protected) crossing of the dual-carriageway at Barton Hill, cutting back to the route through Barton-le-Willows, Harton and Bossall for an extra 7km.  https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31056084


The rest of the route doesn't look too bad through the bits I'm familiar with. There are cafes dotted along the route, should you need them. I think the one in Coxwold is still open, then there's Quarmby's in Sheriff Hutton, which is recommended by friends, although it's far too close to home for me! There's also cafes, chippies, shops and pubs in Stamford Bridge, Pocklington, Market Weighton and Beverley.

[FifeingEejit]

thanks, that's caused a reroute by the algorithm to terrington instead of sheriff hutton.
Definitley a better way of negotiating the A64

[Pingu]

...Route back is to Zeebrugge, a fair bit of LF1 again with corners cut where it seems pointless and deliberate routing through Delft and Brugge
I've only ridden around the Alkmaar area but presume the rest of NL is much the same, but what's the infrastruture in Belgium like? GSV seems to indicate it's much the same.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31031745

The infrastructure in Belgium is quite similar to that in NL.

Your route between Damme & Bruges was closed when we were there last month due to roadworks. There's a narrowish cycle route on the other side of the canal if it's still closed when you go.

Make sure you follow the west side of the canal, Langerei, to the centre of Bruges as marked on your route. The other side of the canal, Potterei, is very cobbly.

There's a lot of cobbles in the center of Bruges 

[slugbait]

The infrastructure in Belgium is quite similar to that in NL.

No, it isn't. Flanders (Dutch-speaking Belgium) is not too bad when it comes to cycling infrastructure, but it doesn't even come close to the Netherlands. Flanders has bike paths, but unless they're towpaths along canals or former railways, they are built to keep cyclists out of the way of cars. In the Netherlands, bicycle paths encourage people to cycle, where usually on a bike path you have right of way, no unexpected curbstones etc.

And Wallonia (French-speaking Belgium) should really feel like home to Brits.

[quixoticgeek]

The infrastructure in Belgium is quite similar to that in NL.

No, it isn't. Flanders (Dutch-speaking Belgium) is not too bad when it comes to cycling infrastructure, but it doesn't even come close to the Netherlands. Flanders has bike paths, but unless they're towpaths along canals or former railways, they are built to keep cyclists out of the way of cars. In the Netherlands, bicycle paths encourage people to cycle, where usually on a bike path you have right of way, no unexpected curbstones etc.

And Wallonia (French-speaking Belgium) should really feel like home to Brits.

Agreed. Cycling in Belgium tends to involve a lot of being shouted at and beeped by drivers. There's a reason that murderstrip, (well the Dutch version of the word), was the 2018 word of the year.

As for your route in .nl. Are you after a scenic route, or are you after the fastest way from a to b? Cos right now, you're kinda avoiding both...

It's also going to be a lot windier on the coast, than it will be just 20-30km in land. And that bit in Zeeland, if you have a head wind, it will be hell on 2 wheels.

J

[bludger]

I think I must have been lucky in Belgium. In both of my tours/audaxes there I've had very good treatment from motorists. But I keep hearing about 'crazy Belgian drivers' all the time.

[quixoticgeek]

I think I must have been lucky in Belgium. In both of my tours/audaxes there I've had very good treatment from motorists. But I keep hearing about 'crazy Belgian drivers' all the time.

On my last Belgian Audax rain on -6°C ground meant what little cycle paths existed became too dangerous to use. I had to use main roads. I got more shit from motorists in that 50km back to Bruge, than I've ever had at any other time.

Cycling 3km in Brussels I had more near misses than I have in thousands of km cycling in .nl and .de.

It's got worse in .be in recent years.

Remember that those who choose routes for audax events do so to minimise the amount of shit from motorists. This gives a false impression of Belgium for those who then go on to tour separately.

J

[bludger]

Yes that makes a lot of sense. What a pity

[quixoticgeek]

Yes that makes a lot of sense. What a pity

Makes it more impressive that the Belgian Audax organisers find such nice routes!

J

[slugbait]

I've now also taken a look at your route: the LF1 up the coast to Alkmaar is a classic; for the most part a wonderful cycle path through the dunes and usually a nice tailwind. The LF1 from Maassluis southward is spectacular. It takes you along a series of dams, dykes and storm surge barriers. Especially the massive Oosterscheldekering is a wonderful sight. But yeah, beware of the headwinds. The bit through Belgium also looks fine. Bruges (or Brugge) is a disaster to cycle through, but well worth the trouble.

The only part that could be improved is the bit from Bergen to Delft. I would go a bit more inland to avoid all the cities and towns that lay just behind the dunes.

[Pingu]

...Cycling in Belgium tends to involve a lot of being shouted at and beeped by drivers...

Not in my experience.

[FifeingEejit]

I've now also taken a look at your route: the LF1 up the coast to Alkmaar is a classic; for the most part a wonderful cycle path through the dunes and usually a nice tailwind. The LF1 from Maassluis southward is spectacular. It takes you along a series of dams, dykes and storm surge barriers. Especially the massive Oosterscheldekering is a wonderful sight. But yeah, beware of the headwinds. The bit through Belgium also looks fine. Bruges (or Brugge) is a disaster to cycle through, but well worth the trouble.

The only part that could be improved is the bit from Bergen to Delft. I would go a bit more inland to avoid all the cities and towns that lay just behind the dunes.

Yes, Headwinds, I knew that would be a problem when planning, to an extent that's what trains are for...
I'm aware of the reasons why NS cancel all their trains in the north at wind speeds considerably lower than what the cycle paths on the bridges up here close (98kmh).

Will have a proper look at the route tweaking suggestions later, I've also got some flexibility back as the B&B I'd booked forgot to put their holidays into the system that week. 

[FifeingEejit]

I've now also taken a look at your route: the LF1 up the coast to Alkmaar is a classic; for the most part a wonderful cycle path through the dunes and usually a nice tailwind. The LF1 from Maassluis southward is spectacular. It takes you along a series of dams, dykes and storm surge barriers. Especially the massive Oosterscheldekering is a wonderful sight. But yeah, beware of the headwinds. The bit through Belgium also looks fine. Bruges (or Brugge) is a disaster to cycle through, but well worth the trouble.

The only part that could be improved is the bit from Bergen to Delft. I would go a bit more inland to avoid all the cities and towns that lay just behind the dunes.

As for your route in .nl. Are you after a scenic route, or are you after the fastest way from a to b? Cos right now, you're kinda avoiding both...

It's also going to be a lot windier on the coast, than it will be just 20-30km in land. And that bit in Zeeland, if you have a head wind, it will be hell on 2 wheels.

J

Looking at this again;

Based on everyone telling me that Delft is "Mooi" I want to see if they're right.
The B&B in Ouddorp have e-mailed me to say they are actually on holiday, soI need to find somewhere to stay on night 1 of the return journey and can reroute to suit, though I do like ferries...
Not particularly bothered about speed, if I can keep it to around 100km each day
looking at the map I can see a gap running from Alkmaar, along the meer, between schipol and Haarlem, ferry from Kaag to Zevenhuisen which leaves Zoetermeer and Leiden to deal with, not been to either.
Not seen the Kindersdijk either now I think of it, not even sure where it is...
Scenic variation suggestions very welcome!

[quixoticgeek]

Looking at this again;

Based on everyone telling me that Delft is "Mooi" I want to see if they're right.
The B&B in Ouddorp have e-mailed me to say they are actually on holiday, soI need to find somewhere to stay on night 1 of the return journey and can reroute to suit, though I do like ferries...
Not particularly bothered about speed, if I can keep it to around 100km each day
looking at the map I can see a gap running from Alkmaar, along the meer, between schipol and Haarlem, ferry from Kaag to Zevenhuisen which leaves Zoetermeer and Leiden to deal with, not been to either.
Not seen the Kindersdijk either now I think of it, not even sure where it is...
Scenic variation suggestions very welcome!

Kinderdijk is south of Delft, more specifically south east of Rotterdam. There is a ferry but it doesn't always run outside summer.

For finding ferry times, use:

https://veerponten.nl/

The Harlemmermeer (the thing Schiphol is on), is one of my common training grounds. The western side is nicer than the eastern side.

There are 3 ferries across the Noord Zee Kanal between Ams and the North sea, Ijmuiden, the one in the middle, and then the West Harbour. Avoid the west Harbour it stinks.

If you want scenery, on the way south from Alkmaar, consider including Zaanseschans It'll be a slight diversion, but it is pretty.

HTH

J

[FifeingEejit]

Zansechans looks a bit of a detour but might suggest to Al we head that day one of the days.

Brought it inland
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31031745

Also found a B&B in Maasland decided to make the 2 days roughly equidistant at 120ish

I'd better top up my cards a bit before the pound tanks again...

[quixoticgeek]

Zansechans looks a bit of a detour but might suggest to Al we head that day one of the days.

Brought it inland
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/31031745

Also found a B&B in Maasland decided to make the 2 days roughly equidistant at 120ish

I'd better top up my cards a bit before the pound tanks again...

I wouldn't take the line across Hoofdorp, I'd continue down around the ringvaart, and rejoin your route at Oude Wettering.

Hoofdorp sucks to cycle through.

J

[FifeingEejit]

oops didn't see your Hoofdorp avoidance before.

Wasn't too bad until the side of the canal I wanted to ride on was dug up and I rode the other side.
I went to the shopping center to try and find lunch but only found an Albert Heijn and couldn't find the bogs that my "Where is public lavvy" app said was there.

The only great cock up on the way back was I forgot to investigate the times of the Kamperland to Veer ferry properly which resulted in a needless 10km in the ride and only just making the Velsen-Bresken ferry
https://ridewithgps.com/trips/42193871

Had a headwind most of the way, wasn't too bad when it switched to the side, I've had considerably more interesting rides on the Tay and Forth Bridges...

Sluis was a bit interesting, seemed to be a bit of a shopping destination for Belgians.
The border seemed to be entirley unmarked on the Krinkeldijk, and I only had a couple of wrong side moments at 2 junctions where Fietspads dumped you onto lanes on the road from the left side

Biggest problem was deciding what to do after checking out of the hotel on Saturday, I got fed up of blatting around Bruges and went out towards Zeebrugge far too early.

Also... I doubt I'd ever get used to the fact that even when you don't have priority of way at junctions car drivers just let you out... that's in both the Netherlands and Flanders.