Cross Training: Rowing

[Jakob]

Back at it today.
5K benchmark of 23:55.1 which gives a 2:23.5 split

Plan is to do alternate days of 5k and then 2k + as many 500m sprints as I can handle. (probably only 1 or 2 right now).

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I'm interested in what what an endurance pace is for those YACFers doing the challenge.  Or maybe my assumption of it being rowed at an endurance pace is incorrect?

It would also be interesting to know what resistance level we row at?

I row at resistance level 5 as I was told (whether that is correct or not) that this most naturally simulated rowing on the water (not that I have ever done that - for which my son, who went to a school that did - looks down on me and will do so forever).  I have also been told (not that I have experimented) that the 'resistance' level is more about altering the work that needs to be done between the upper body and lower body.  Certainly, when I went to gyms, I would often be next to someone with upper body strength who would whack the resistance up to 10, blast for about a minute and then look across at skinny (upper body) me and be puzzled by the fact that I was recording a time as quick as theirs without apparently breaking sweat. 

I'd been more interested at stroke rates - mine for anything over 2k settles at 25.  It might up to 26 as I get fatigued - say for the last 10 minutes of an hour when i am starting to struggle to keep to my pace at stroke rate 25 - and it might go as high as 30 when I'm sprinting the last 300 metres.  This might be me making the most of 189cm height or I might be missing a trick.

[De Sisti]

It would also be interesting to know what resistance level we row at?

I row at resistance level 5 as I was told (whether that is correct or not) that this most naturally simulated rowing on the water (not that I have ever done that - for which my son, who went to a school that did - looks down on me and will do so forever).  I have also been told (not that I have experimented) that the 'resistance' level is more about altering the work that needs to be done between the upper body and lower body.  Certainly, when I went to gyms, I would often be next to someone with upper body strength who would whack the resistance up to 10, blast for about a minute and then look across at skinny (upper body) me and be puzzled by the fact that I was recording a time as quick as theirs without apparently breaking sweat. 

I'd been more interested at stroke rates - mine for anything over 2k settles at 25.  It might up to 26 as I get fatigued - say for the last 10 minutes of an hour when i am starting to struggle to keep to my pace at stroke rate 25 - and it might go as high as 30 when I'm sprinting the last 300 metres.  This might be me making the most of 189cm height or I might be missing a trick.

The online videos I looked before start to row, my younger brother's experience and a young
woman in our cycling club who was on the cusp of the GB suggest between 3 - 5. I've been told
that members of the GB team row at a resistance level of 3 (as it was more akin to rowing on water).


[Edit: Bonnie and colleagues used level 4 for endurance and level 8 for hard punishing sessions.
She rowed for her uni. I will find out from Briony (who trained with Team GB) what level she used.
This is for my curiosity].

[Jakob]

I usually keep it at 5.
Stroke rate, we always got told to keep it around 20-22, but I will occasionally drop to ~18.
I usually have a strong pull and then a slow recovery

[Jakob]

2k: 8:30.5
Knee was complaining on the last 500 meters, so no 500m sprint afterwards.
This also felt like close to max effort all the way through.

[mike]

resistance level is very machine-dependent - level 10 on a badly maintained machine can be easier than level 2 on a new one because the fan casing fills up with dust and the fan doesn't slow down as much between strokes.  If it's your machine, it's worth hoovering the cage out every year or so.

to check what resistance you're really working at, go into 'more options', then 'view drag factor' and take a couple of strokes until you get a number, it should be somewhere between 80 and 200. 

Most club rowers will go for about 100-110 (women) and 115-125 (men).  Go lower if you're less experienced, it's slightly more technically difficult* but it'll be **much** less likely to cause injuries on longer sessions. 

* - you need to make sure you're just using your legs in the first part of the stroke. If you try and use your body or arms too early then it'll make it more difficult to generate enough power.

[L CC]

I was running the damper at 1 but the new flywheel assembly is much slicker and now it's at 5. There is a setting somewhere deep in the menu that gives a real number- it does depend on your individual machine. I'd understood it to be equivalent to gearing- high setting= big gear, harder work but higher output.

Stroke rate: I've also read that 22 ish is what I should be aiming for, for endurance. I sit at about 25 (see 'short' above')

I have also been told (not that I have experimented) that the 'resistance' level is more about altering the work that needs to be done between the upper body and lower body.  Certainly, when I went to gyms, I would often be next to someone with upper body strength who would whack the resistance up to 10, blast for about a minute and then look across at skinny (upper body) me and be puzzled by the fact that I was recording a time as quick as theirs without apparently breaking sweat.

I've also had this. Women thrashing on a machine at a ridiculous stroke rate with splits lower than mine. Technique doesn't have to be perfect to make a massive difference.


ETA: Wot mike said 

[De Sisti]

resistance level is very machine-dependent - level 10 on a badly maintained machine can be easier than level 2 on a new one because the fan casing fills up with dust and the fan doesn't slow down as much between strokes.  If it's your machine, it's worth hoovering the cage out every year or so.

to check what resistance you're really working at, go into 'more options', then 'view drag factor' and take a couple of strokes until you get a number, it should be somewhere between 80 and 200. 

Most club rowers will go for about 100-110 (women) and 115-125 (men).  Go lower if you're less experienced, it's slightly more technically difficult* but it'll be **much** less likely to cause injuries on longer sessions. 

* - you need to make sure you're just using your legs in the first part of the stroke. If you try and use your body or arms too early then it'll make it more difficult to generate enough power.

Resistance level 3.5  = drag factor 106
Resistance level 4     = drag factor 115

[Jakob]

5K: 22:25.7.
Average 500m 2:14.6
Last 1500meters or so, I was trying to see how far I could push it without blowing up and ended up at ~ 2:10.
I don't do much warm up, but maybe I should. I started out at 2:24 or so and it felt hard.

I am, however, really feeling this workout today.

[mrcharly-YHT]

The local gym has Concept machines and I had my first go last night.

Thankfully, even with injured shoulder, I can row.

OMg I'm so unfit. Maintaining under 2:15 per 500m over 2km felt quite hard. Going under a 2min pace at all seemed difficult.
I used to be able to do under 2min for 500m in a kayak, in shallow water!

Either the machine calibration is out or I'm a slug. Probably the latter.

I didn't realise there was a level setting so no idea what that was on.

[mike]

it's the University boat race this Sunday, I've been in Putney for a couple of days helping get the Cambridge women ready for it.  Tension is definitely building, there's lots of security already and there's a huge amount of camera equipment and cabling being installed everywhere; the athletes look tiny in the middle of it all. 

None of the crews are exceptional this year, not like last years Oxford men and Cambridge women - all the best athletes 'students' have gone back to their national squads to train for Paris Olympics and all the crews have been well beaten by the very best UK club crews. It should be pretty tight racing, we've done quite a lot of training for what to do when the crews clash blades, which might make for good telly!

[Marco Stefano]

Well done to your charges, Mike, some great racing in challenging conditions in the first quarter. CUBC women stayed longer in the rough water & OUBC shortened a little at the front end, I felt. The bumps racing portion in the middle was exciting... 

In all the times those rowers have passed me on the river I have never noticed how energetic the stroke of the 5 seat was (it's almost like I was concentrating, or something); they certainly left it all out there. Congratulations!

[mike]

thank you!  5 is 'interesting'.. she's unbelievably strong, probably the best we've ever had for power to weight but she learned to row in the US and has never really had any technical coaching just sent out in a boat and told to pull hard - she's had to work really hard to get in the crew.

[L CC]

Marathon Challenge time...?

[mrcharly-YHT]

I found what looks like a bargain water row machine (Mrs C favours a water row over air because of appearance).
https://czfitness.co.uk/products/water-rowing-machine-for-sale-home-use-workout?VariantsId=10060

Looks to me to be a straight copy of a Waterrow, with slightly more limited electronics.

I'm troubled by the lack of reviews. The ones on the company site are all 5 star, and from new rowers, which makes me twitch.

On second viewing, despite the name, this is a chinese company. Probably more risky than ordering from Ali baba.

[De Sisti]

I found what looks like a bargain water row machine (Mrs C favours a water row over air because of appearance).
https://czfitness.co.uk/products/water-rowing-machine-for-sale-home-use-workout?VariantsId=10060

Looks to me to be a straight copy of a Waterrow, with slightly more limited electronics.

I'm troubled by the lack of reviews. The ones on the company site are all 5 star, and from new rowers, which makes me twitch.

Here is a used Concept2 rower that you could consider:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/1737647710?iid=134768496674

[L CC]

Anything other than a Concept2 or a genuine WaterRower is probably a waste of money.

(Sweeping generalisation, but everything else I've seen, including in some gyms  can only be described as an erg shaped object)

[mrcharly-YHT]

Anything other than a Concept2 or a genuine WaterRower is probably a waste of money.

(Sweeping generalisation, but everything else I've seen, including in some gyms  can only be described as an erg shaped object)

The more research I do, the more that seems to be the case. There are good alternatives (nordictrack, for example), but they are a very similar price.
Quite a few decent magnetic machines, but the other user of the rower has major joint problems. The way that magnetic machines load the user would seem to be a bad idea for someone like that.

I like the idea of a water rower, and the Xterra Fitness ERG600W is an affordable machine. Doesn't have the aesthetics that MrsC would like. Something I'm reading on review after review is that if you are a heavy user, don't buy cheap. Guess it is like bicycles in that respect.

[Oscar's dad]

We have one of these: https://www.fitness-superstore.co.uk/fluidrower-viking-pro-xl-full-commercial-fluid-rower-adjustable-resistance-dnly.html

I don't use it as much as I should, it then to go in fits and starts, there hasn't been a start for some time, but it's been great when I have used it.

[L CC]

Mr Smith's Concept2 came to me with him (as it were) and was second hand when he got it. I doubt very much Oscar's Dad's rower will last 20 years / many million metres.

[Oscar's dad]

Mr Smith's Concept2 came to me with him (as it were) and was second hand when he got it. I doubt very much Oscar's Dad's rower will last 20 years / many million metres.

Given the amount of use it gets I suspect it will last a very long time    I should probably set myself the task of wearing it out through sustained use!

We bought it shortly after lockdown when Concept rowers were very hard to find and will concede that Concept rowers are probably the gold standard, not that I know much about these things.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

We bought a Concept II in 2010.  It does sit idle a lot of the time, and then gets more intensive use when the weather gets bad.  It continues to operate reliably, with just a little bit of TLC for the chain.

[De Sisti]

We bought a Concept II in 2010.  It does sit idle a lot of the time, and then gets more intensive use when the weather gets bad.  It continues to operate reliably, with just a little bit of TLC for the chain.

Oil it every 50k metres or so.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

We bought a Concept II in 2010.  It does sit idle a lot of the time, and then gets more intensive use when the weather gets bad.  It continues to operate reliably, with just a little bit of TLC for the chain.

Oil it every 50k metres or so.

First use in many months today.  Gave the chain a light oil.  No issues.  I do need to clean the slide.  I am struggling to get my head around much rowing at the moment - so I suspect that it will just be my 10 minute warm-up session before weights for a while.  But was pleased that I was at 2650m for 10 minutes, which suggests that PBP cycling fitness translates OK to rowing.

[De Sisti]

It has taken a while (three years) but I finally manage to achieve 2 million metres rowed on my Concept2 erg.

2,000,711
LIFETIME METERS

216,327
SEASON METERS