Author Topic: QNAP NAS - device in degraded mode (Read 14663 times)

nikki · « **on:** 20 July, 2015, 03:04:34 pm »

I've acquired a red light above one of the drive slots on my QNAP TS-420. A poke around in the control panel reveals "[Mirror Disk Volume: Drive 1 2] RAID device in degraded mode."

I don't really know what I'm doing with RAID stuff - help!

I've got two drives in there at the moment, I think set up as RAID 1, although I can't find the appropriate bit in the control panel to confirm this.
I've got a third drive that lives away from the NAS, that I was periodically swapping with the drive in slot 2.

If I use that third drive to replace the faulty drive (in slot 1), am I right in thinking that I should do do something like:

* Power down the NAS
* Remove the faulty drive from slot 1
* Put the okay drive from slot 2 into slot 1
* Put the okay drive that was out of the NAS into slot 2
* Power up the NAS and hopefully wait as the contents of the drive in slot 1 get mirrored onto the drive in slot 2.

Is there anything I can do with the faulty drive to see if it's repairable?

Kim · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 July, 2015, 03:13:14 pm »

You want to work out why it's degraded (which just means the RAID has decided not to use that disk). Presumably the disk has gone AWOL for some reason, usually a hardware fault (which can be as simple as a loose connection). SMART tests - possibly by connecting the disk to a proper computer, are the way forward. If it fails a SMART test and is in warranty, you should be able to RMA it.

I don't know how these off-the-shelf NAS thingies work (it's presumably Linux software RAID under the hood, but hidden behind a user-friendly interface so it's not clear what's going on), but you want to be *really* careful not to mirror your old backup onto the live disk. RAID is excellent for making redundant copies of what you've just cocked up, which is why we have backups as well.

tom_e · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 July, 2015, 03:25:57 pm »

If you haven't tested the rebuilding procedure before, and you still have remote read access, I would start by leaving the NAS hardware alone and making a conventional backup copy first. It's very easy to imagine doing that mirror wrongly as Kim describes.

Quote from: nikki on 20 July, 2015, 03:04:34 pm

Is there anything I can do with the faulty drive to see if it's repairable?

Check for a loose connector. Then consider how much your data is worth to you and the cost of a new replacement drive?

nikki · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 July, 2015, 04:50:07 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 20 July, 2015, 03:13:14 pm

SMART tests - possibly by connecting the disk to a proper computer, are the way forward. If it fails a SMART test and is in warranty, you should be able to RMA it.

Oh, is SMART a thing? There's something in the control panel for a SMART test - now in progress - but I thought it was just marketing jazz!

Quote from: Kim on 20 July, 2015, 03:13:14 pm

Linux software RAID under the hood, but hidden behind a user-friendly interface so it's not clear what's going on

*nods* like that. But without the user-friendly interface.

Quote from: tom_e on 20 July, 2015, 03:25:57 pm

If you haven't tested the rebuilding procedure before, and you still have remote read access, I would start by leaving the NAS hardware alone and making a conventional backup copy first. It's very easy to imagine doing that mirror wrongly as Kim describes.

Okay - I'll investigate doing that first.

Kim · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 July, 2015, 04:59:03 pm »

Quote from: nikki on 20 July, 2015, 04:50:07 pm

Quote from: Kim on 20 July, 2015, 03:13:14 pm
SMART tests - possibly by connecting the disk to a proper computer, are the way forward. If it fails a SMART test and is in warranty, you should be able to RMA it.

Oh, is SMART a thing? There's something in the control panel for a SMART test - now in progress - but I thought it was just marketing jazz!

Yeah, it's a standardised way of accessing self-diagnostic data on hard drives.

nikki · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 July, 2015, 06:11:16 pm »

It's chugged its way up to 30%...

Not sure it'll still be in warranty by the time the scan's finished

Kim · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 July, 2015, 07:00:02 pm »

That's normal for a full scan on modern disks. There's a *lot* of sectors!

Afasoas · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 July, 2015, 11:59:57 pm »

Quote from: nikki on 20 July, 2015, 03:04:34 pm

I've got a third drive that lives away from the NAS, that I was periodically swapping with the drive in slot 2.

This probably isn't the best thing to do. Every time you swap this drive you would be effectively degrading and causing the NAS to rebuild the array. That takes a long time with modern larger disks and thus it's a risky business.

Quote

If I use that third drive to replace the faulty drive (in slot 1), am I right in thinking that I should do do something like:

* Power down the NAS
* Remove the faulty drive from slot 1
* Put the okay drive from slot 2 into slot 1
* Put the okay drive that was out of the NAS into slot 2
* Power up the NAS and hopefully wait as the contents of the drive in slot 1 get mirrored onto the drive in slot 2.

Don't move the good drive. The NAS should know which drive is the degraded one and depending on how it works under the hood you could wind up rebuilding the array bad drive -> good drive.

nikki · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 July, 2015, 12:05:47 am »

Results are in:

I take it that means I'm going cap in hand to WD to ask for a replacement?

nikki · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 July, 2015, 12:07:43 am »

Quote from: Afasoas on 20 July, 2015, 11:59:57 pm

Quote from: nikki on 20 July, 2015, 03:04:34 pm
I've got a third drive that lives away from the NAS, that I was periodically swapping with the drive in slot 2.

This probably isn't the best thing to do. Every time you swap this drive you would be effectively degrading and causing the NAS to rebuild the array. That takes a long time with modern larger disks and thus it's a risky business.

I think I'll also soon be locating USB cable and caddy to try and learn how to do backups to an external drive!

Kim · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 July, 2015, 12:11:10 am »

Quote from: nikki on 21 July, 2015, 12:05:47 am

I take it that means I'm going cap in hand to WD to ask for a replacement?

Yup.

It's usually fairly straightforward - bang the serial number into an annoying web form and they'll tell you where to send it.

Afasoas · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 July, 2015, 12:17:38 am »

Sorry for the split reply. Posting from my phone which is quite awkward.

I would let the SMART test complete and let us know the results. As others have said, you need to take a backup before doing anything. I would figure how to get SSH access to the NAS from a PC using Linux ... you could use an Ubuntu live CD. I could do this with my NAS using the root user combined with the admin users password e.g. from the terminal, SSH rooot@nas_host_name followed by the admin users password when prompted. You may need to enable SSH access access in the control panel somewhere. Once you have done this, you can copy the data to your third disk connected to your PC.

These NAS boxes usually use mdadm which is most common form of software raid in Linux. That means it is possible to pull a good disk from a mirrored raid array and having physically connected it to a PC, access the disk with a few commands.

I would suggest backing up, replacing the knackered disk with a new one and then schedule regular rsync backups to another NAS or PC running Linux/Rsync. Use your third disk (and broken disk if it comes good) to host the regular backups.

It may sound complicated, but it's fairly trivial for a careful and moderately experienced Linux user. There may be some outlay, but I am sure those near to you can help out. I actually have a soon to be spare Synology NAS box that would possibly be ideal as a target for your backups. If you are near to me, I have a spare PC I could loan to you with a Linux distro installed and even help you hands on. I am not far from Brummy land.

Let us know how you get on with the test.
What size disks are you using?

Afasoas · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 July, 2015, 12:27:19 am »

Sorry, last post was a bit out of date. RMA sounds like a good idea.

There should be a backup panel in the control panel with a range of options. The caddy and USB lead is a good idea but I would recommend having at least two external HDDs and rotating them ... external hard disks are too easily dropped or knocked off surfaces. And data doesn't exist unless it is stored thrice.

Just wondering if you have a PC as oppose to laptop etc? An old PC with at least four data ports would be fine, and it doesn't have to be switched on all the time, only for your backup window. If the PC can be connected to your network by Ethernet cable, it's wake on LAN feature could be used to switch it on and it could be scripted to shutdown when the backup has finished. There's plenty of options for getting regular reliable backups, the only expense really is disks.

Zipperhead · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 July, 2015, 02:39:45 pm »

Quote from: Afasoas on 21 July, 2015, 12:17:38 am

I would let the SMART test complete and let us know the results. As others have said, you need to take a backup before doing anything. I would figure how to get SSH access to the NAS from a PC using Linux ... you could use an Ubuntu live CD. I could do this with my NAS using the root user combined with the admin users password e.g. from the terminal, SSH rooot@nas_host_name followed by the admin users password when prompted. You may need to enable SSH access access in the control panel somewhere. Once you have done this, you can copy the data to your third disk connected to your PC.

From memory (of my 3) you don't have to do anything to enable ssh access, just fire up putty or whatever and you can login as the admin user.

Probably no need to though. I don't use external drives on mine, but setting up things like rsync etc. is easily done through the web interface.

If it's of any help, when I get home tonight I can plug an external drive into one of mine and work out how to take a backup onto an external drive, and email the to the original poster.

nikki · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 July, 2015, 05:18:46 pm »

Thanks Afasoas and Zipperhead, I'll have to have a think/research about adding in extra PCs and stuff.

For now, I've just tried using the 3rd drive to host a back-up of what's on the NAS via the USB socket on the front of the NAS and the back-up options in the control panel. This fails.

"[External Drive] Job EEE dump-->EEE dump failed: Job is aborted because one of the destination devices is readonly!"

Might it be because there's RAID stuff set-up on the drive? Would I need to format it to use it as a regular external hard drive?
Or might this be because of the error on the drive in slot 1?

Kim · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 July, 2015, 05:22:15 pm »

Quote from: nikki on 21 July, 2015, 05:18:46 pm

Might it be because there's RAID stuff set-up on the drive? Would I need to format it to use it as a regular external hard drive?

Wouldn't surprise me.

Afasoas · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 July, 2015, 07:39:33 pm »

Quote from: nikki on 21 July, 2015, 05:18:46 pm

Thanks Afasoas and Zipperhead, I'll have to have a think/research about adding in extra PCs and stuff.

For now, I've just tried using the 3rd drive to host a back-up of what's on the NAS via the USB socket on the front of the NAS and the back-up options in the control panel. This fails.

"[External Drive] Job EEE dump-->EEE dump failed: Job is aborted because one of the destination devices is readonly!"

Might it be because there's RAID stuff set-up on the drive? Would I need to format it to use it as a regular external hard drive?
Or might this be because of the error on the drive in slot 1?

Does the control panel not give you the option of formatting the drive??

nikki · « **Reply #17 on:** 21 July, 2015, 08:59:19 pm »

I have formatted the disk via the control panel, but when I checked it on my laptop it seems there are some partitions there that I'm guessing I'll want to get rid of before I start putting data back on.

I don't know how to do that at the moment and I'm supposed to be writing a dissertation, so sorting all this will be something that gets incremented in the background.

...or will suck up a load of time because I won't be able to resist fiddling!

Kim · « **Reply #18 on:** 21 July, 2015, 09:06:37 pm »

You'll need to re-partition the drive.

I'd guess that you'd get a relevant set of options if you select the "3 TB ADplus SuperVer Media" rather than one of the partitions as you appear to have in the screenshot.

Afasoas · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 July, 2015, 08:49:31 am »

I'd expect the NAS when it formats the disk to remove any existing partitions and then create the partitions it needs.
That just looks odd.

Is that your 3rd disk connected via USB and then formatted?

nikki · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 July, 2015, 03:49:42 pm »

Quote from: Afasoas on 22 July, 2015, 08:49:31 am

Is that your 3rd disk connected via USB and then formatted?

Yep.

I've now plugged it in to a windows laptop and deleted the partitions. It's currently chugging away through formatting.
NTFS was the only option I had - where are we at now with inter-platform compatability?

Afasoas · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 July, 2015, 04:55:15 pm »

I think the NAS should be okay with NTFS:

http://docs.qnap.com/nas/4.1/Home/en/index.html?external_storage.htm

Afasoas · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 July, 2015, 04:56:58 pm »

Also found the instructions on backing up to an external drive, here:

http://docs.qnap.com/nas/4.1/Home/en/index.html?external_storage.htm

nikki · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 July, 2015, 05:49:13 pm »

Ah, sorry, my fault for not using all of the words: with inter-platform compatibility I'm thinking in terms of also being able to use the external hard drive with my mac laptop.

If I use this third drive as an external (rather than putting it in one of the NAS slots) then it might be easier/quicker to use that (plugged into my laptop) to get at archived files. Access over wi-fi to the NAS is s l o w.

I should really be aiming for FAT32, shouldn't I?
*googles*
Oh, wait, is there a maximum drive size I can use with FAT32?! Do I need to repartition the (3TB) drive?!

Quote from: Afasoas on 22 July, 2015, 04:56:58 pm

Also found the instructions on backing up to an external drive, here:

http://docs.qnap.com/nas/4.1/Home/en/index.html?external_storage.htm

*nods* yes, thanks, I was looking at something similar in the manual for the model I have.

Afasoas · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 July, 2015, 09:01:05 pm »

Hmmm... your backup should be a backup and kept quarantined so in the event your machines get infected etc. You know your backup is safe. That's one of the reasons for recommending more than one external HDD so you can rotate and thus there's always a recent off line backup - not vulnerable to any cryptoware.

If you need fast of faster access to your storage, is connecting a cat5e viable?