Author Topic: Coronavirus and Audax  (Read 89132 times)

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #825 on: 01 May, 2020, 04:07:10 pm »
It probably didn't need thousands of members before the royal IT project, now it probably does to avoid bankruptcy? Doesn't the management of the site alone absorb 5 figures off the budget?

I agree that is a significant concern.
The hosting fees are neither here nor there but the choice of a relatively esoteric platform for the new project means that maintenance/dev will be a continuing outlay and could easily run to 5 figures.  Yes the expensive company that was contracted has gone and been replaced by an individual, but I'm guessing he will only stick around for as long as nothing better turns up for him.
I don't see any indication that the project is not still being pushed forward (and of course now, with the data essentially frozen, is a very good time for infrastructure changes).  As it happens, the next step is a bit of a tipping point, beyond which it will be much less easy to retract.  It certainly has me worried.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

guidon

  • formerly known as cyclone
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #826 on: 01 May, 2020, 04:37:12 pm »
the clouds are still gathering over this IT thing, some very salient concerns placed by FF.....

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #827 on: 01 May, 2020, 04:52:23 pm »
And, I meant to add, whatever AUK's financial projections were, Covid-19 has surely blown them away.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #828 on: 02 May, 2020, 10:39:29 am »
Anecdata, but I doubt I’m alone. A lack of free weekends means I don’t ride that many events. A stock birthday present for me is a long weekend away to ride. Often a tour. I have some perm cards in a drawer, but a date to aim at is useful to me. If tours remain unavailable for then a perm might work instead, if I attach a date to it.

Assuming any easing still limits numbers, distance travelled to participate and sleep control arrangements what else could AUK do to attract entrants to events rather than the traditional highlights? Given that some members are more vulnerable, and so might want to limit contact even if small calendar events can be run, what could AUK do to enable them to participate? Some ideas:

Take the arrow / dart idea and modify it. Make it out and back or a triangle starting and finishing at home. Use cafes, or calendar controls or well known hills as the points that aren’t home to allow some low key meeting of others and a sense of common experience. Have a date to aim at, and add to the shared thing.

Make “photo of self, bike and signpost” a standard control type, for low contact rides.

Build a less gruelling alternative to RRTY. Shorter rides in winter maybe. They could average to 200 a month. Or fit into daylight at 15km/h. Though then the Scots get really short winter rides and really long summer rides :demon:

S2L

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #829 on: 02 May, 2020, 12:16:01 pm »
Anecdata, but I doubt I’m alone. A lack of free weekends means I don’t ride that many events. A stock birthday present for me is a long weekend away to ride. Often a tour. I have some perm cards in a drawer, but a date to aim at is useful to me. If tours remain unavailable for then a perm might work instead, if I attach a date to it.

Assuming any easing still limits numbers, distance travelled to participate and sleep control arrangements what else could AUK do to attract entrants to events rather than the traditional highlights? Given that some members are more vulnerable, and so might want to limit contact even if small calendar events can be run, what could AUK do to enable them to participate? Some ideas:

Take the arrow / dart idea and modify it. Make it out and back or a triangle starting and finishing at home. Use cafes, or calendar controls or well known hills as the points that aren’t home to allow some low key meeting of others and a sense of common experience. Have a date to aim at, and add to the shared thing.

Make “photo of self, bike and signpost” a standard control type, for low contact rides.

Build a less gruelling alternative to RRTY. Shorter rides in winter maybe. They could average to 200 a month. Or fit into daylight at 15km/h. Though then the Scots get really short winter rides and really long summer rides :demon:

Some interesting ideas...

For calendar events, I would add a "pick up and go" type start, where you pick up your card, sign what time you start on a sheet (or on the card itself) and set off without having to wait around for the official "depart". The window can be an hour or two wide, depending on how busy the event is.
Particularly suitable for BP and shorter BR, maybe less so for the longer events, but I don't expect the latter to resume any time soon

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #830 on: 02 May, 2020, 12:39:01 pm »
a question:

if i happen to ride an overseas audax (or the whole series), would it/they get validated by auk once it gets going again?

(not all countries suspended audax riding)

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #831 on: 02 May, 2020, 01:42:49 pm »

Some interesting ideas...

For calendar events, I would add a "pick up and go" type start, where you pick up your card, sign what time you start on a sheet (or on the card itself) and set off without having to wait around for the official "depart". The window can be an hour or two wide, depending on how busy the event is.
Particularly suitable for BP and shorter BR, maybe less so for the longer events, but I don't expect the latter to resume any time soon

Just before events had to be suspended Randonneurs NL took some decisions along these lines:
-Only online entry
-Only online payment
-Starting window of 2 hours, don't linger arount at the start but pick up your card and go
-Only free controls, so no designates café's were riders would amass.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #832 on: 02 May, 2020, 02:05:30 pm »
a question:

if i happen to ride an overseas audax (or the whole series), would it/they get validated by auk once it gets going again?

(not all countries suspended audax riding)

Yes. I can't see any reason why not.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #834 on: 25 May, 2020, 06:17:25 am »
RTTY accounts for a reasonable churn in DIYs/Perms, especially in the winter months where many people don't have suitable local events (or the local event happens to fall on the wrong weekend, etc).

AUK started as hundreds, it can quite happily carry on as hundreds of people. It doesn't need thousands of active members (assuming calendar events can't be put back on, which is what we're talking about).

It probably didn't need thousands of members before the royal IT project, now it probably does to avoid bankruptcy? Doesn't the management of the site alone absorb 5 figures off the budget?

Anyway, the moral is that if 540 calendar events become zero for a sustained period of time, then it's game over, like it or not

Apologies if this is obvious but, while it might be game over for the current club, it would not be hard for a new club to be formed on a slimmed-down basis, minus the IT system or otherwise.  ACP could then decide who they wanted to recognise as the UK affiliate.  I have no knowledge of ACP but, in many sports, that decision is one which often takes place well away from public scrutiny!

It's tempting to believe that national sporting bodies have some special standing but, by and large, they are just private clubs or companies carrying out their sporting and commercial activities.  Generally, the main thing that they have got is an agreement from an international body giving them monopoly rights on international competition in their territory - and an installed base of users, commercial contracts, etc.  But someone willing to spend the money to create a parallel organisation can do so (eg Kerry Packer's cricket operation in the seventies)

There is nothing to stop anyone setting up a long distance cycling club tomorrow and organising virtual events, solo events and, in time, calendar events - and giving their validations to them.  What they couldn't do is provide a means of entry to PBP - without replacing AUK as ACP's UK partner.
 

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #835 on: 25 May, 2020, 08:34:03 am »
Good post Frank.

I sincerely hope we are a long way from a serious UK breakaway, but you can see how it might gain traction. :-\
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #836 on: 28 May, 2020, 12:42:26 am »
It's tempting to believe that national sporting bodies have some special standing but, by and large, they are just private clubs or companies carrying out their sporting and commercial activities.  Generally, the main thing that they have got is an agreement from an international body giving them monopoly rights on international competition in their territory - and an installed base of users, commercial contracts, etc.  But someone willing to spend the money to create a parallel organisation can do so (eg Kerry Packer's cricket operation in the seventies)

There is nothing to stop anyone setting up a long distance cycling club tomorrow and organising virtual events, solo events and, in time, calendar events - and giving their validations to them.  What they couldn't do is provide a means of entry to PBP - without replacing AUK as ACP's UK partner.
 

Many do have special standing with government due to lobbying efforts (see CUK/CTC as an example) though thats largelly to do with funding.
Cycle and Automotive racing are two areas where government recognition is rather important.

In the case of Automotive racing there's only 3, MSA, ACU and IOPD (IIRC), what makes things harder for that is the Road Traffic act can be extended to a race track if you arse up the design, so BriSCA etc are on slightly shonky ground if someone manages to convince a sheriff that the track at Cowdenbeath is covered by the RTA. (all roads regardless of ownership in Scotland are so it's important to prevent public access at all times.)

The cycle racing regs for E+W appear to still be:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1960/250/pdfs/uksi_19600250_en.pdf

Isn't this where the legend of mudguards and upper speed limits being "we're not racing honest guv" comes from?
Got to make sure it's not a race or time trial otherwise route authorisation from the police is required.

And of course if Sportives, "rouge" races etc. cause enough problems, you need traction with the government to get anywhere in avoiding the sport being banned out right.
(See Formula Wales, Targa Timing and Selectifs... Which when the police twigged what was happening and the Gov intervened resulted in significant restructuring and lobbying to avoid outright banning)

I wouldn't be surprised if the FA, SFA and FAW had to do a bit of lobbying to avoid thatcher banning spectator football in the late 80s.

rob

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #837 on: 28 May, 2020, 12:21:21 pm »
It looks a little like CTT may be struggling.

https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/cyclingtimetrials/

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #838 on: 28 May, 2020, 01:02:57 pm »


It's tempting to believe that national sporting bodies have some special standing but, by and large, they are just private clubs or companies carrying out their sporting and commercial activities.  Generally, the main thing that they have got is an agreement from an international body giving them monopoly rights on international competition in their territory - and an installed base of users, commercial contracts, etc.  But someone willing to spend the money to create a parallel organisation can do so (eg Kerry Packer's cricket operation in the seventies)

There is nothing to stop anyone setting up a long distance cycling club tomorrow and organising virtual events, solo events and, in time, calendar events - and giving their validations to them.  What they couldn't do is provide a means of entry to PBP - without replacing AUK as ACP's UK partner.
 

I propose a new club: the British League of Audax Cyclists.  We can have a black club strip, and be the BLAC sheep of Audax  :demon:

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #839 on: 28 May, 2020, 08:28:15 pm »
It looks a little like CTT may be struggling.

https://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/cyclingtimetrials/

They've been a bit rocky for quite a while.

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #840 on: 05 June, 2020, 12:39:24 am »
Email from AUK has landed. No changes until at least 4 July.
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

alfapete

  • Oh dear
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #841 on: 05 June, 2020, 07:10:41 am »
Absolutely the right message from the Board: can't think of any way it could be improved, well done!

Await the carping....
alfapete - that's the Pete that drives the Alfa

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #842 on: 05 June, 2020, 07:22:28 am »
Absolutely the right message from the Board: can't think of any way it could be improved, well done!

Await the carping....
We can't really carp about something that doesn't really say anything. ;)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #843 on: 05 June, 2020, 09:58:29 am »
For those who don't read the AUK Forum (or their emails  ;)), here's the message from the Chair.

I hope that you and any family and friends are keeping safe and well, along with – perhaps – managing to fit in at least some cycling during the current situation. I am writing to let you know where we are with dealing with the pandemic situation and its effects on our cycling. Thank you to all those members who took the trouble to reply to my previous messages on the subject. Hopefully, you will understand that I can't reply to all because of the time that would be involved. Your individual views are appreciated, as is your commitment, whatever your views are.

Earlier this week, we held an AUK Board meeting to consider what steps we might be able to take to begin re-introducing validation of AUK events, as the individual guidelines or regulations from the various relevant governments and Crown Dependencies evolve.

We agreed that, in principle, as Audax UK, our preference would be act on a “one nation” basis, with any rule updates taking effect in England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man at the same time. That, we feel, would be the simplest and fairest course of action.

However, we also agreed that the differing approaches being taken - by the government at Westminster and those in Edinburgh and Cardiff, in particular - could result in an event that would be within the guidance and legislation in one nation or even region being proscribed or restricted in another. This is not an insurmountable problem, but it does require event organisers, and members planning DIY routes, to give very careful consideration to whether their routes take them into or through regions with differing restrictions.

We agreed that the current suspension of all events will remain in place until July 4th at the earliest and that we will give organisers and members at least 2 weeks’ notice of any aspect of the suspension being lifted. If we are unable to lift any restrictions on July 4th, we will set a new date for formal review.

As a point of principle, we have agreed that we may validate events of shorter duration or individual/small group events such as Permanents and DIYs prior to re-commencing all events, but this will be entirely dependent on any further changes to the relevant guidance and legislation and individual organisers’ availability and willingness to support them. We will be talking to event organisers over the next couple of weeks to establish which events will or will not be feasible. Organisers will have total discretion over whether events that can go ahead will go ahead.

Given the current ban on overnight stays away from home in England and the general advice elsewhere that we should avoid unnecessary travel, event distances will be almost certainly be limited to 200km at first and we will strongly encourage riders to minimise travel to and from events. We will, of course, expect members to adhere to all the regulations applicable to their route. Whilst neither AUK nor its organisers can be expected to scrutinise every ride or route, any obvious breaches of the legislation or the guidance would invalidate a ride.

I do want to stress that the situation remains uncertain and we must retain the flexibility to respond to any new developments, whether positive or negative, but I hope that this update will reassure members that we do intend to bring back AUK events as soon as it is safe and practical to do so.

The Board will be meeting again in mid-June and I will report back to you after that.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #844 on: 05 June, 2020, 09:59:43 am »
Absolutely the right message from the Board: can't think of any way it could be improved, well done!

Await the carping....
We can't really carp about something that doesn't really say anything. ;)

YACF: "Hold my bidon"
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #845 on: 05 June, 2020, 10:18:47 am »
Absolutely the right message from the Board: can't think of any way it could be improved, well done!

Await the carping....
We can't really carp about something that doesn't really say anything. ;)

We can carp on about the fact that some people think it doesn't really say anything.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #846 on: 05 June, 2020, 10:31:54 am »
It is interesting to try to pin down what decisions they're trying to communicate. In ascending order of wishy washiness:
- No events before July 4th
- 14 days advance notice of restart
- "event distances will be almost certainly be limited to 200km at first" (but maybe not?)
- "our preference" is to restart in all nations at once, but maybe not if the rules are different...
- They "may" validate small events/DIYs/perms only before normal events resume.


Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #847 on: 05 June, 2020, 10:33:06 am »
Absolutely the right message from the Board: can't think of any way it could be improved, well done!

Await the carping....
We can't really carp about something that doesn't really say anything. ;)

We can carp on about the fact that some people think it doesn't really say anything.
Disagree I think it tells us quite a lot
1 they are aiming at a date of 4th of July assuming things continue to improve
2 they are considering a phased return
3 when events re start it will initially be just 200s
4 we are not going to be surprised by an announcement stating events are backnon at less than 2 weeks notice
5 clear preference to treat the entire UK the same.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #848 on: 05 June, 2020, 12:58:15 pm »
Must say I vastly prefer the format used by Grams and Wycombewheeler to get the message across.

As to the content, I had hoped for a clearer position/roadmap on validating DIY rides again.

Re: Coronavirus and Audax
« Reply #849 on: 05 June, 2020, 01:33:51 pm »
It's pretty hard to have a clear position when the position isn't clear.  I think it's a pretty good statement.