Cross Training: Running

[Ewan Houzami]

Mattc. Why does this happen?! I'm built like a bloomin' runner too, but feel like an effin' carthorse when I get going. One good thing I've discovered going back through this thread is this Parkrun malarkey. I've just looked at their site and guess what?  A new one started up yesterday around Hilly Fields in Brockley (which must be all of fifty yards from my front door)! As Saturday is generally my 'run' day, this couldn't be more perfect.

[Gus]

I'm absolutely NOT build like a runner,(more like Obelix) but I started running earlier this year. I have just finished my first 1/2 Marathon today. Time is modest compared to many of you 2.30,31, but remember I'm still a fat git trying to loose weight.

[teethgrinder]

Rich Forrest was a bit bigger than he is now when he started running. Back then, I was a bit faster than him. But where I did the odd run now and then, Rich stuck at it and did regular runs. He did short runs at regular intervals and built up on that where I just went for a long run (for me) Rich got faster and lost weight. He's faster than me now and probably in much better shape after a half marathon. I'm no faster at running than I was 2 years ago but I don't really do much of it.
Little and often then building up on that seems to be the way to go.

[citoyen]

Parkrun is a real bonus, cos I seem to be able to do 5km flat-out (i.e. pathetically slow by "runner" standards, but at least my heart-rate confirms I'm trying).

My colleagues are suitably impressed when I tell them my parkrun PB, but then you get someone like Lady Cav doing about the same time and calling it "chatting pace". Makes you realise just how huge the gulf is between us diletantes and proper athletes. 

There seems to be no link between my running and my cycling experience. It's very odd.

That's normal, isn't it? You use different muscles, and use them in a different way, right? I have good base fitness thanks to the cycling, but my relative level of performance is much higher on a bike.

Weight seems to be much more critical a factor for running than it is for cycling. OK, so you can't go up hills so quick on a bike when you're carrying a few extra pounds but you can still do a decent speed on the flat. With running, it's hard even on the flat when you're overweight - especially on the knees. This is why I hated running for years and have only recently started to be able to enjoy it, since I've lost weight.

The thing that struck me about my longer run yesterday was that I may not have been quick, but I had the stamina and the willpower to keep going. That certainly would not have been the case two years ago. Having said that, 13km is quite a step up from 5km. Maybe a more intermediate distance would be better for the time being...

d.

[citoyen]

I'm absolutely NOT build like a runner,(more like Obelix) but I started running earlier this year. I have just finished my first 1/2 Marathon today. Time is modest compared to many of you 2.30,31, but remember I'm still a fat git trying to loose weight.

That's really not a bad time at all. 

d.

[mattc]

There seems to be no link between my running and my cycling experience. It's very odd.

That's normal, isn't it? You use different muscles, and use them in a different way, right? I have good base fitness thanks to the cycling, but my relative level of performance is much higher on a bike.

I expect my relative performances to differ. I do more cycling, for one thing.

But they are both aerobic forms of exercise using (mainly) the big muscles below the waist. So they should respond to training in a similar way. And performance over 20-25 minutes should be a good [but not exact] predictor of performance over an hour (within the same activity!).

On a bike, most TTers have a PB average speed only slightly lower for 25 miles than 10. They don't expect to struggle to even complete the 25.

(You would expect base fitness from one to help a little in the other, but I wouldn't dare to try quantifying this effect.)

[Karla]

On a bike, most TTers have a PB average speed only slightly lower for 25 miles than 10.

I'm fastest over 25 

[Lady Cavendish]

Oi!!

Firstly. Big congratulations to Gus on your first half. Great stuff

Secondly. This pace thing is all relative. Yes, I find 7mm easy running. But that's because I've been running for years, 100-120 miles every week with a marathon or 2 (or ultra marathon) every weekend. It's not a fair comparison.

I look at all the cyclists on here doing 1200k+ rides and thinking WTF?!?!?! And the same with people who can ride 10m TTs at the 20 min mark. I'll never be able to do that. But then I don't think I'll have the inclination to ever train properly as a cyclist, because I can't find the love for it.

The weight thing is huge within running, and why so many people end up starving themselves. Every pound adds on valuable seconds per mile.

There are some very decent 5k times being thrown around in here, but the whole point of it is just to improve our own times. I've got to find another 4 minutes or so out of my foot to be back where I want to be running, but that doesn't make me a 'proper athlete' lol, just someone whose main sport it is.

However, one thing I will add is that hard running sessions are done HARD. Training runs are just that, and should be run at a training pace. Marathon runners who run say, 7 min miles for the marathon, typically train at 8mm for general running. It's not about trying to break times in routes on training runs! Let's not use me as an example as silly ultra running is a bit different. I'll use my better half. His 5k pace is a smidge over 5 min miling, 10k around 5.15-5.20, half marathon, 5.30 and marathon 5.50ish. His runs during the week (taking out the HARD sessions- tempo/intervals/marathon pace sessions) are all run at 7 min miling or thereabouts.

[Lady Cavendish]

And yeah Matt, I hate to use myself as any sort of cycling example as I aint no cyclist, but there is 0.3mph between my 10m pace and 25m pace.

[mattc]

There's some interesting variation in terminology here.

I regard ANY exercise as "training" i.e. it has a training effect. Whereas LC seems to describe "training" and "hard" as different things!

[Lady Cavendish]

All running is 'training'......but not all training sessions should be hard sessions....that's kind of what I meant......

[teethgrinder]

Watching mighty Mo Farrah run the 5000m put me in my place.
He did it in about half the time it takes me to run a Parkrun. Apparently, the Olympic 5000m final was a "slow" race.
I reckon I could get down to 20 min if I did it regular. 17 if I did some training, maybe even 15 if I really got into it. But I still don't think I'd find the extra few minutes to bring me up to Mighty Mo's "jogging" pace!
All good fun though...

As for runnng, I like it hard! (ooer missus!)
Not training properly helps make it harder for me.

[Lady Cavendish]

There aren't many people who can run a 15 min 5k. That's 4.49mm. The very top club runners can run a sub 16 but they are the proper race winning guys. TG, you should get into it lol!

I'll certainly never break 17- I'll take getting back under 18 though I miss those days

[Riggers]

We (as in me and a couple of chums) regularly run on a Saturday morning doing 12k in around 1h 10m. We stop a couple of times at strategic points to get our breaths back. Do we enjoy it? At times. It can vary week to week how good you feel, and I'm only glad we go as a small group because, let's face it… running (or its form of staggering that we use) is boring as hell. That's what I think anyway, and that's with us running around parts of the South Downs at the back of Brighton.

What I don't get with me old psyche, is that I can spend all day cycling on me own quite happily, yet I'd need someone thrashing me quite hard with an umbrella to encourage me to run on me own.

[citoyen]

the whole point of it is just to improve our own times.

Completely agree. I'm getting into running purely for my own benefit, not to race against anyone else. I know there's no point comparing my times to yours (or indeed anyone else's) - it's utterly meaningless, for all the reasons you say, but it's interesting to see what other people are doing as a benchmark.

For me, the main attraction of running is to mix it up a bit - if I'm honest, I've been feeling a tad jaded about the cycling lately, so it's good to have another outlet.

Marathon runners who run say, 7 min miles for the marathon, typically train at 8mm for general running. It's not about trying to break times in routes on training runs!

I definitely need to work on my pacing for longer runs. 5k is easier because, as mattc says, you can go more or less flat out the whole way, but I can see you need an element of strategy in your approach to longer runs. It took me years to work out my pacing strategy for 200km+ audaxes, so I don't expect to pick it up straight away in running...

His runs during the week (taking out the HARD sessions- tempo/intervals/marathon pace sessions) are all run at 7 min miling or thereabouts.

That's interesting - a lot slower than race pace, then. I shall bear that in mind.

mattc - I don't think of it as "training" unless you have a specific goal in sight that you're working towards, and you're tailoring your runs towards preparing for that goal. I suppose in that sense my running is a kind of training because I'd like to ultimately build up to an Ironman, but that's a long way off yet - though maybe it wouldn't be so far off if I focused my running efforts more on that target... I'm very unscientific in my approach.

d.

[teethgrinder]

Actually, I take that back. I probably could break 17, but I *won't* because I bl**dy hate 5ks and I don't do 5k training!!! All those track sprint things, bleurgh.

TGLC, you should get into it lol!

 

[citoyen]

So. With all these 5ks being done, who's doing a 10k?!

I might enter one of the local events at some point but in the long term, my sights are set on bigger targets... 10k would be a good stepping stone though.

d.

[RichForrest]

I did almost 10km this morning, First run for just over a month though!!
Was up and around the local woods working out a route for the club on Sunday. It's been planned for a few months now so thought I'd better get out again.
Was just under the hr so fairly slow, included hills, mud, jumping puddles and brambles. Great fun 
Have a trail half marathon next weekend over in Royston, that's likely to be slow and hilly also 

[citoyen]

I reckon I could get down to 20 min if I did it regular. 17 if I did some training, maybe even 15 if I really got into it.

Only 8 people have ever run sub-17 on my local parkrun - and that's a very flat course...

I'd like to get down to 20 minutes as a long term aim, but I'm not planning on doing any "training" to achieve it.

d.

[simonp]

I once ran a 6mm (actually a bit  more than 1m at 6mm pace). My HR peaked at 193. Really can't get it that high on the bike.

[Lady Cavendish]

Citoyen I'm sure you'll get down to 20 mins without too much trouble looking at your rate of improvement.

Tuesdays and Saturdays are supposed to be my running days for now. Couldn't do today as I had to have a blood transfusion this morning for some extra iron but I am allowed to run tomorrow

Not sure whether to try running a tiny bit quicker, or take it a little bit over 5k. Or just leave it where I am for a bit but that seems a little pointless. I might try a little over 5k. I don't really know what to do!

Can't parkrun this Saturday or next. The one after though I am doing a race for life with my daughters- there might be a few walk breaks in that one

[Lady Cavendish]

5.5k this morning. Its ok, but its like I have no foot muscles left in the bust one, its weird. They need building back up again, the foot gets really knackered! Still, progress of sorts I guess.

[citoyen]

Woo! Another PB! 21.15 - dead chuffed with that. Feeling that 21 minutes is definitely within reach...

d.

[mattc]

Right, statement of intent:
I'm gonna try a double Parkrun tomorrow. Leveraging my getting-out-of-bed-skilz honed last weekend, I'll pre-run the course then join in with the main event to help drag me round the 2nd 5km. I might even get swiped (if I finish) so you can all have a laugh. Or I could swipe at 7.5km and get an 18min PB!

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[citoyen]

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Excellent, there's a screen grab function...

d.