Author Topic: Cyclist down  (Read 29991 times)

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #75 on: 02 August, 2012, 01:52:58 pm »
That whole area is confusing. You have segregated cycle paths running on the pavement, with crossings at pelican crossings, and then the Olympic lanes. I can see how a bus driver could be lulled into a false sense of security.

AndyK

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #76 on: 02 August, 2012, 01:53:26 pm »
The comments under that BBC article have gone the usual way; road tax, insurance, helmets, get off the roads… and all the 'editors picks' are pro-helmet.

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #77 on: 02 August, 2012, 02:00:31 pm »
Thankfully the BBC asked one of BC's head honchos on the lunchtime news. His opininion echoed Boris'; studies have shown that compulsory magic hat (love that term btw) wearing dissuades people from taking up cycling. Of course the image they showed was one with the crushed bike lying next to the bus, and surprisingly not the one with intact lid. Nobody even considered asking whether wearing a lid in this case would have saved the poor cyclist's life.
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim Krabbé. Possibly

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #78 on: 02 August, 2012, 02:33:54 pm »
That's awful, so tragic, no words can express.  No helmet would have saved him.  Not riding up the inside would have.  I'm so sorry that this sounds like me blaming the cyclist.  This was the thing that I had to get over when I saw the guy under a  truck in Victoria Street, yes it was awful to see, but had he waited behind he'd have been safe.
Victim blaming is awful, but sometimes the person who is killed or injured is killed or injured because of their own actions. Not every death or injury is always the fault of somebody else. Yes, all long vehicles should have additional mirrors so that they have no blind spots, and yes, all drivers should check all their mirrors. But not all long vehicles have additional mirrors yet, and if that post linked to in this thread is true, the poor guy went up the left of a stationery bus and was in the driver's blind spot when it started to move. That's not the driver's fault. The only person who put the cyclist into the danger zone is the cyclist. He could have waited behind and been safe.

The fact he put himself into a place where he was killed doesn't make it less awful or less sad or less tragic, and it doesn't mean that vehicles shouldn't have additional mirrors. A couple of years ago a lad died in Edinburgh because he'd been riding his mini-moto illegally on a shared footpath/cyclepath where it had no right to be and he went into a tree and died. That was entirely his fault. It was still awful and sad. Just on Tuesday I thought I was about to witness a death when a cyclist behaved absolutely stupidly forcing himself into a tiny gap between the left of a van and some railings (in almost exactly the same spot Iain Wilson was killed). He was lucky - the van driver saw him and stopped. If he had been killed, it would have been awful and sad but it would have been as a result of his own actions.

Sometimes cyclists do stupid or naive things and sometimes they die because of it. I hope that very soon all long vehicles will have additional mirrors to remove the blind spots. It won't stop some cyclists doing stupid things though.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #79 on: 02 August, 2012, 02:45:48 pm »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2182586/Bradley-Wiggins-knows-lot-cycling-But-wrong-safety-benefits-wearing-helmet.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Interesting place for this article to appear. I notice that Mr Wiggins has stated he didn't call for compulsary helmets now on twitter.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Cyclist down
« Reply #80 on: 02 August, 2012, 03:58:16 pm »
Partly responsible? I'll happily take this over to POBI, but based on that account partly is not a word I would use. He put himself in a position of extreme danger and unfortunately suffered the consequences.

At least partly responsible. Taking that eyewitness account at face value, he was extremely reckless.

Broadly, I agree with what you say. Some cyclists need a serious whack round the head with the clue stick.

d.

"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #81 on: 02 August, 2012, 03:58:56 pm »
But not one that crushes their lower body and kills them.
Getting there...

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Cyclist down
« Reply #82 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:03:16 pm »
But not one that crushes their lower body and kills them.

Absolutely. He seems to be a victim of his own foolishness, but the price is too high. Also, there's the bigger picture to consider - why he was in that situation at all, mixing with buses at a badly designed junction... It's a complex issue. I could sit here writing my thoughts about all the various aspects of it all day but I'm not going to - there's cycling on the telly!

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #83 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:09:45 pm »
London might be an exception when it comes to how bus drivers drive their bus's.
Round here bus drivers imo are quite simply bullies.

shyumu

  • Paying my TV license by cheque since 1993
    • Balancing on Two Wheels
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #84 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:10:44 pm »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2182586/Bradley-Wiggins-knows-lot-cycling-But-wrong-safety-benefits-wearing-helmet.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Interesting place for this article to appear. I notice that Mr Wiggins has stated he didn't call for compulsary helmets now on twitter.

I've clicked on that link but I just get cats in teacups.  But I note that not one of the cats is wearing protective clothing in case someone pours tea into those teacups.
a journal of bicycle rides I have enjoyed:

http://balancingontwowheels.blogspot.co.uk/

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #85 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:14:04 pm »
You wouldn't have a certain filter for Dail Mail pages installed would you ;)
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

shyumu

  • Paying my TV license by cheque since 1993
    • Balancing on Two Wheels
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #86 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:16:09 pm »
You wouldn't have a certain filter for Dail Mail pages installed would you ;)

I've just checked my pulse and it is normal... I think the filter must be working.
a journal of bicycle rides I have enjoyed:

http://balancingontwowheels.blogspot.co.uk/

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #87 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:21:11 pm »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2182586/Bradley-Wiggins-knows-lot-cycling-But-wrong-safety-benefits-wearing-helmet.html

Is that any better?
Still haven't fully got to grips with this MacBook...
[Edit] Link works for me.

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #88 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:29:18 pm »
I rarely blog, but this time had to have a bit of a ramble.

Very nicely put Andy

shyumu

  • Paying my TV license by cheque since 1993
    • Balancing on Two Wheels
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #89 on: 02 August, 2012, 04:35:46 pm »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2182586/Bradley-Wiggins-knows-lot-cycling-But-wrong-safety-benefits-wearing-helmet.html

Is that any better?
Still haven't fully got to grips with this MacBook...
[Edit] Link works for me.

If you can see any online Daily Mail articles then perhaps you need this

My blood pressure has been saved from many an inadvertent click.

---
Nice blog post Andy
a journal of bicycle rides I have enjoyed:

http://balancingontwowheels.blogspot.co.uk/

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #90 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:17:01 pm »
What we need is some simple public service announcements, with our lovely new celeb riders, showing how to ride safely on the road.

Someone like Cav saying "I'm always in a rush and I can handle myself, but even I don't go into the DEATH ZONE" and pointing out the Bad Place on the inside of long vehicles. 
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #91 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:21:30 pm »
Not a bad idea Master Gates.
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Chris S

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #92 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:27:11 pm »
Someone like Cav saying "I'm always in a rush and I can handle myself, but even I don't go into the DEATH ZONE" and pointing out the Bad Place on the inside of long vehicles.

The sad truth is - in many such places, there is a friendly bike symbol and nice green (or blue) paint on the road to show you the way into the DEATH ZONE; as was the case yesterday I believe.

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #93 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:29:20 pm »
Looks like they've pulled the article from the main page of the Mail and replaced it with the stereotypical, incitement-to-rage, Bradders says wear a helmet one. Attracting the usual headbanging 'I PAY MY ROAD TAX' twits.
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim Krabbé. Possibly

Basil

  • Um....err......oh bugger!
  • Help me!
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #94 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:30:47 pm »
The sad truth is - in many such places, there is a friendly bike symbol and nice green (or blue) paint on the road to show you the way into the DEATH ZONE; as was the case yesterday I believe.

Like dumb-ass drivers who drive into fields or lakes because their sat-nav told them to?

Thinking would be a good start.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #95 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:33:10 pm »
What we need is some simple public service announcements, with our lovely new celeb riders, showing how to ride safely on the road.

Someone like Cav saying "I'm always in a rush and I can handle myself, but even I don't go into the DEATH ZONE" and pointing out the Bad Place on the inside of long vehicles. 

A bit like the Alvin Stardust Green Cross code.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiKQO6BVzyA

Or perhaps the Les Gray out of Mud version, in honour of the Opening Ceremony 'Tiger Feet' interlude, it also explains the origin of the Gold trim on the uniforms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V52TvRwK0Bg

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #96 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:36:21 pm »
Novice cyclists have been cultured to look for facilities and use them in preference to the wild-west of the road.

The sad thing is, you graduate from novice when you've plenty of road time, so they say greener for longer.  It's like those four-year-olds still on breast milk.  And yeah, if they're encouraged by paint into the DEATH ZONE and don't know it for what it is (mixing it at a stale red? stay one car back. who teaches that any more? who even teaches the concept of a stale light that's about to change?)....  ...where was I? 

Same old rant.  Same old body count.  Wiggo's not wrong there: it's horrid and it isn't changing. 
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #97 on: 02 August, 2012, 05:55:11 pm »
What we need is some simple public service announcements, with our lovely new celeb riders, showing how to ride safely on the road.

Someone like Cav saying "I'm always in a rush and I can handle myself, but even I don't go into the DEATH ZONE" and pointing out the Bad Place on the inside of long vehicles.

 :thumbsup:  Scripted, natch.

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #98 on: 02 August, 2012, 06:19:36 pm »
What has had the largest effect upon me, of this particular incident, is reading the account of the Reddit user who said he (or she) was behind the cyclist, and saw pretty much the whole thing, including being there right at his end.  I've never seen anything like that, and will be quite happy if I manage to never do so, but that has to have had a pretty profound effect.  After reading it, I know I'll be even more nervous about the very rare occasions when I do go up the inside of a bus or HGV (on the rare occasions when traffic is barely moving or stationary, and I know that I can safely get past the large vehicle, and it's safer than going past on the outside), or indeed, when I'm anywhere in the vicinity of such vehicles.  This is probably not a bad thing, because nasty stuff can happen, regardless of how careful we and motor vehicles drivers are.

It does sounds horribly like this cyclist didn't do himself any favours by his behaviour, and it does make me wonder how we can get people to be more sensible?  I've seen people come close to coming undone when going up the inside of a left turning vehicle, and did have a brief shout at a couple of people on the last FNRttC who wove between some cars turning left into a garage, when it was almost as easy to wait, or go around the outside.

Presumably because bicycle are more manoeuvrable and can fit into smaller spaces, people think it's sensible to go through these gaps, but often it's asking for trouble.  TfL has been putting up some advertising to try and get people to realise that HGVs have a huge blind spot.  Given the number of people I see stepping out into the road, from behind a parked vehicle, whilst wearing iPods or talking on the phone, I do wonder if we're suffering from some huge failure to recognise that the world is generally out to get us, so it's a good idea to be aware of what else is in your vicinity.  Are people taking less care than when I was younger, or am I just suffering from a case of "When I were a lad ..."  I seem to recall seeing public information films with characters like the Green Cross Code Man and Tufty the Squirrel when I was younger, but less so in recent years (but then again, I don't watch children's TV quite as much either!)

I can't say Wiggins putting his foot in it worries me too much.  Yes, he probably shouldn't have said it, and he gave the media the sort of soundbite they were looking for, but he's not particularly qualified to make public opinions on such, so personally I don't care.  There is an argument that given how well he has the public ear at the moment, he has a responsibility to take more care over what he says, but on the scale of public cock-ups, this has nothing on getting caught in bed cheating on his wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever with a page 3 girl, or being in court after having been stopped for driving at 120mph under the influence of illegal drugs.  He's just won the Tour-de-France and a seventh Olympic medal, I think he's allowed to occasionally say things that he probably shouldn't have, and largely because he was probably caught unaware of events by the media.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Cyclist down
« Reply #99 on: 02 August, 2012, 06:25:52 pm »
What we need is some simple public service announcements, with our lovely new celeb riders, showing how to ride safely on the road.

Someone like Cav saying "I'm always in a rush and I can handle myself, but even I don't go into the DEATH ZONE" and pointing out the Bad Place on the inside of long vehicles.

I would say a David Beckham type figure would have a bigger impact than any cyclist for publicity. Whats needed is a few celebs to leave their range rovers at home and be seen getting around town on a bike.
Racing cyclists are not the people to carry the message.