The only reason I can think of why you'd need them over just DIY-ing the whole thing is where you don't have a GPS and the Perm you want to ride has info controls because no normal proof-of-passage controls are available at certain points to make the route up to distance.
Which would only be acceptable for perms below 200km in total
Which would only be acceptable for perms below 200km in total
Have the older ones been tightened up? I'm sure there used to be info controls on the Cheddar Gorge 300k perm (I bought an entry years ago but never rode it).
I understand Martin that you don't want to administer it — is there any way EPEs could be administered by individual perm orgs? Or would it need one central person responsible?
Nick, that looks good. Useful for riders and encourages them to make use of the Perm Org's nice ready-planned route. Perms, as opposed to DIY perms, do surely deserve more use. All as you say.[my bold]
It would be great if a way of doing the admin can be worked out. A central person wouldn't have the useful local expertise.
(DIYs can also be excellent of course, but it's a great pity if they reduce use of the "real" Perms [declares interest/involvement].)
It wouldn't be too hard to write something to compare a submitted GPX file (of a real ride) with the GPX files of known perm (and calendar) rides
How about each perm organiser who wanted to allow their perm to be extended have a range of EPE's to tack onto the result (all for double the entry fee I presume)
thus my perms are MM01, 02, 03 etc; I could have MME01 to add 100km; MME02 for 200 etc
How about each perm organiser who wanted to allow their perm to be extended have a range of EPE's to tack onto the result (all for double the entry fee I presume)
thus my perms are MM01, 02, 03 etc; I could have MME01 to add 100km; MME02 for 200 etc
Would this mean the org having to shell out £20-30 for brevet cards?
I've just been catching up on the AGM votes:
apparently 540 members (of around 850 who voted) voted to stop EPEs from happening.
Now, there was a democratic process, so some would say "The NATION has Decided!!!" n all that. But:
I didn't see a single voice in the online chatter saying they were a bad thing. Can any of the 540 explain why they voted it down? I'm really puzzled by this :-\
[ "Hustings" thread here: http://forum.audax.uk/index.php?topic=1642.msg13744#msg13744 ]
I suspect you'd find almost all of those votes were discretionary proxies controlled by the Chairman, if it were possible to find out.You could well be right. If we can't find out, isn't that rather odd?
FWIW I've had quite a few enquiries about EPE'ing my own perms recently so there is clearly a market
The voting info pack says:Thanks :thumbsup:
"The Board believes that the administrative burden of introducing EPEs will outweigh the benefits to the membership as a whole. Accordingly, the Board recommends that you vote against this resolution"
https://www.mi-vote.com/files/AGM_Agenda.pdf
Democracy works best with a dash of openness on the side
FWIW I've had quite a few enquiries about EPE'ing my own perms recently so there is clearly a market
I've had a number of requests, too — members would like to include their ride to the start in Cambridge, and home after, as part of the ride and get the extra point(s). The only solution currently is for them to DIY the entire route, which then means they don't appear against the totals for riders of my perms and so lowers my organiser's year-end total. These things matter*.
* but not much.
I know it's a lot of initial admin for John Ward but I like the idea of offering eg an "AAA Milne 200" in addition to the 100k normal version. The only difference would be that there were two extra controls which would be defined as Anywhere (this is currently allowed for Darts and Arrows)
BZZZTTT!! just realised this would mean there would be a 200k perm with several info controls, AIUI this was justified for ECE's on the basis that other riders would notice someone blatantly cutting short the route
I know it's a lot of initial admin for John Ward but I like the idea of offering eg an "AAA Milne 200" in addition to the 100k normal version. The only difference would be that there were two extra controls which would be defined as Anywhere (this is currently allowed for Darts and Arrows)
BZZZTTT!! just realised this would mean there would be a 200k perm with several info controls, AIUI this was justified for ECE's on the basis that other riders would notice someone blatantly cutting short the route
There is also a potential issue of level-1 organisers being able to offer level-2-distance events via the back door. Also, GPS-validation for classic-perms over 200km is currently not permitted. Neither is an issue that would take much thought to resolve.
Also, GPS-validation for classic-perms over 200km is currently not permitted.
Proposer’sand Seconder’s Rationale: To allow AUK Permanent events and for events organised by associate/affiliate organisations and recognised by AUK, e.g., overseas BRM events validated by the local ACP affiliate to be extended.Overtime the definition of an 'ECE' has been expanded to include BRM events validated by other ACP associates (listed as 'overseas' events in the results section of the Audax UK website) and this resolution makes provision for this explicit in the Audax UK Regulations.
Some Members have also asked for the ability to similarly extend Audax UK Permanent events. Currently riders wishing to incorporate a route registered as an AUK Permanent into a larger ride are forced to do so by registering the overall ride as a DIY Permanent. They would prefer instead to extend the Permanent and thereby support the Audax UK Permanent scheme and Permanent Organiser.
This would also allow the registered Permanent to appear in their results as part of an extended event rather than the ride listed as a somewhat anonymous 'DIY Permanent' as now.
EAE/EPEs are generally supported by the current AUK website, and, as variations of the existing ECE scheme, could be incorporated into the new AUK website project at this stage of its development at minimal additional cost and effort (leaving it to a later date would inevitably be far more costly). It is not expected there will be a large number of Extended Affiliate and Permanent Events validated each year, so the additional administrative effort to support them would be correspondingly low.
In summary this resolution is being progressed to recognise current practice, support riders' interests and facilitate future development
Manotea; yes recruiting an EPE org (or 12!) would enable them to start along the same lines as ECE's as the website is already geared up to deal with them. But the info control issue for perms under 200km kills it stone dead for anything under 300k
FWIW I've had quite a few enquiries about EPE'ing my own perms recently so there is clearly a market
I've had a number of requests, too — members would like to include their ride to the start in Cambridge, and home after, as part of the ride and get the extra point(s). The only solution currently is for them to DIY the entire route, which then means they don't appear against the totals for riders of my perms and so lowers my organiser's year-end total. These things matter*.
* but not much.
I know it's a lot of initial admin for John Ward but I like the idea of offering eg an "AAA Milne 200" in addition to the 100k normal version. The only difference would be that there were two extra controls which would be defined as Anywhere (this is currently allowed for Darts and Arrows)
BZZZTTT!! just realised this would mean there would be a 200k perm with several info controls, AIUI this was justified for ECE's on the basis that other riders would notice someone blatantly cutting short the route; plus of course nobody knows the questions until the day unlike perms
I never took to the idea of including perms in ECE's but if there are only going to be perms allowed soon I would be willing to offer EPE's in the interim if it was of use. I'm not sure if this against the rules and entry would not be as slick as with ECE's.Sounds like an excellent idea, under the current situation :thumbsup:
The main advantages I can think of are
1. to allow AAA 100k perms to be EPE'd to 200 for RRTY and also AAARTY rather than chancing that a DIY would qualify.
2. to enable perm organisers to get some credit for riders combining their perms into longer rides.
I know validation works OK on the website as i did accept an EPE a few years ago as I was not aware that the rider was doing the perm version of a calendar event, it was all homolgated with the correct date and points.
:) :) :) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
AUK club-person of the Year!
(It's hardly important yet, but will you extend this to longer options when AUK permit those distances? I could probably do some Sussex events as 100k+perm+100k from home ...)