The Fall

[mattc]

<snip>
For me, when you start picking holes in plot or character motivation then that is a sign that the program has lost its way. A well made film/program will carry you to the end regardless - that's if it knows what it's doing.

As I say, I reckon after season one they tried to change direction. Perhaps in response to audience response, don't know. Whyever, they've gotten lost. I'm not sure the directors/writers know what they are trying to say.

well we're not picking holes in the plot

It's very different plot-wise from most serial killer TV series that come before it - this might be why some folks aren't convinced by it.

I'm finding the conflicts and development of each character intriguing. They're all a bit weird - from the schoolgirl to Gibson's amorous beardy boss.

[citoyen]

So, what did we all think of the ending? Pretty good, I thought. The interview showdown between DSI Gibson and Spector was nicely done - seemed designed to make you feel almost complicit with Spector for even watching the series. And I loved the bit when Stella gave amorous beardy boss a ticking off.

Although...

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...perhaps a slight cop-out that they found Rose alive (compare and contrast to the end of the first series of The Bridge), and the shooting was a bit predictable. Though I liked that they didn't tie up all the loose ends completely. That would have been too neat.[/quote]

[Andrew]

well we're not picking holes in the plot

You might not have been but I was. My point was that when one starts picking holes then it's a sign that one has lost interest. I actually don't care how it ends. For me, there's little of interest to be resolved.

I guess that Rose will be found, the baddie will be caught, Gibson will be vindicated/happy faced...  or some variation thereof. What tension there was quickly went for me. This series has been 2 episodes too long IMHO.

[Euan Uzami]

So, what did we all think of the ending? Pretty good, I thought. The interview showdown between DSI Gibson and Spector was nicely done - seemed designed to make you feel almost complicit with Spector for even watching the series. And I loved the bit when Stella gave amorous beardy boss a ticking off.

Although...

(click to show/hide)

...perhaps a slight cop-out that they found Rose alive (compare and contrast to the end of the first series of The Bridge), and the shooting was a bit predictable. Though I liked that they didn't tie up all the loose ends completely. That would have been too neat.

[/quote]

Although...

(click to show/hide)

If I was that other cop, Gibson's boyfriend, and on happening upon the shooting she tried to save Spector before me! I would have been a bit cheesed off!

It was slightly predictable in that as soon as it became obvious Spector was heading outside in a convoy, and oh, wait - that ulster unionist fella's still on the loose - with a gun. BUt good, I thought.

[citoyen]

I actually don't care how it ends. For me, there's little of interest to be resolved.

It comes back to what you said earlier about considering it as television. If I wanted to watch a simple whodunit, I'd stick with Miss Marple. Plot details aren't always the most interesting aspects of drama anyway; on the whole, I'm more interested in the journey than the destination. How the relationship between Gibson and Spector played out was, for me, more interesting than whether or not they caught him.

YMMV.

[Steph]

I would agree with Citoyen about the journey, but add that it is necessary (for me) that the characters have some depth and originality. I would have said 'teeth' or 'bite', but that just reminds me of Tony Hopkins...

[Andrew]

Plot details aren't always the most interesting aspects of drama anyway

Agreed. For me, for example, character motivation is more important. So again, as I said, if you find yourself questioning plot then it's a sure sign that you've lost interest.

Did they clarify just why baddie changed character entirely after seeing 'that English women' flashing flesh on tele? Just what was the 'relationship' between the two of them? Don't answer that BTW!

[red marley]

The interview showdown between DSI Gibson and Spector was nicely done - seemed designed to make you feel almost complicit with Spector for even watching the series.

Absolutely. During that 20 minute interview sequence, Gibson shows Spector (and us) the video he'd made of his abduction in which he shouts to camera "Why are you watching this you sick fuck?". Gibson then goes on to say "Who are you talking to? Yourself? Me? People who like to read, to watch programmes about people like you?"

This felt like classy UK television writing to rival some of the best US efforts. Almost unbearably difficult to watch at times though. I thought the three characters of thuggish Jimmy, Gibson's pathetic boss and controlling Spector made for interesting comparison in their attitudes to women - each hating the others, but with an uncomfortable similarity between them.

[LEE]

Excellent TV.  Just spent today watching the entire series.  A Sunday well spent in front of a log fire with some wine.

[T42]

We just finished watching both sets of DVDs at 2 episodes per night. 

Bit of a spoiler here:

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Before last night's session I said to the missus "the first episode will end with Stella in Spector's hands and in the last one she'll be rescued".  I was glad to be wrong.  I also liked Rose Stagg being allowed to survive: we all expected her to be dead, which would have detracted from the final denouement.

This serial has been atypical all the way through: the usual stereotypes were avoided, there was none of the "I've got a gut feeling, Jim" crap that comes up repeatedly in US serials**, only a very slight suggestion of the usual "pressure from above" syndrome, and the procedurals, in particular with the dispatcher and the interviews, were brilliant.

It was also great to take a bath in my home-town accent.

We noticed the similarity to The Killing, but I think I preferred this for the lack of peripheral issues.  None of it was boring.  But like the killing, I don't think it will be particulary rewatchable.

**I wonder if they started calling them mini-series to avoid confusion with Cheerios.

[LEE]

We just finished watching both sets of DVDs at 2 episodes per night. 

Bit of a spoiler here:

(click to show/hide)

Before last night's session I said to the missus "the first episode will end with Stella in Spector's hands and in the last one she'll be rescued".  I was glad to be wrong.  I also liked Rose Stagg being allowed to survive: we all expected her to be dead, which would have detracted from the final denouement.

This serial has been atypical all the way through: the usual stereotypes were avoided, there was none of the "I've got a gut feeling, Jim" crap that comes up repeatedly in US serials**, only a very slight suggestion of the usual "pressure from above" syndrome, and the procedurals, in particular with the dispatcher and the interviews, were brilliant.

It was also great to take a bath in my home-town accent.

We noticed the similarity to The Killing, but I think I preferred this for the lack of peripheral issues.  None of it was boring.  But like the killing, I don't think it will be particulary rewatchable.

**I wonder if they started calling them mini-series to avoid confusion with Cheerios.

Re. Your Spoiler.

I also guessed wrong (and glad I was).

Overall, and in spite of some comments about her accent, I thought Gillian Anderson added just enough "A-list" presence to the series to lift it above most others.

It can get a bit same-old, same-old when you see the same-old, same-old go-to actors (ex-Holby, ex-Bill, Helen Mirren..etc).

(click to show/hide)

I suppose it was all a bit convenient in the end, not exactly a death-bed confession but close enough.  From total silence to a complete confession just when I was wondering how they would wrap it up in the next 20 minutes.

But that is so much more preferable than having him escape into the woods or keep you hanging on for 6 months until series 3.

[T42]

I hope there won't be a series 3 - I wouldn't care for it to degenerate into Norn Iron Z-Cars.  In any case, this should sell well enough to lift Jamie Dornan's career a good few notches.  Ditto the wee lassie who played Katie.

[LEE]

In any case, this should sell well enough to lift Jamie Dornan's career a good few notches. 

He already had the lead in "Fifty Shades of Grey".  It's not possible to lift a career profile higher than that. 

[T42]

In any case, this should sell well enough to lift Jamie Dornan's career a good few notches. 

He already had the lead in "Fifty Shades of Grey".  It's not possible to lift a career profile higher than that.

It may seem strange to someone living in the UK, but I hadn't heard of the book or it's being a best seller.  I did see the film mentioned somewhere but the title is so cheesy I didn't bother with it.

[mattc]

In any case, this should sell well enough to lift Jamie Dornan's career a good few notches. 

He already had the lead in "Fifty Shades of Grey".  It's not possible to lift a career profile higher than that.

It may seem strange to someone living in the UK, but I hadn't heard of the book or it's being a best seller.  I did see the film mentioned somewhere but the title is so cheesy I didn't bother with it.

It was the fastest selling book in french history! (in french translation)

[T42]

I'm obviously disconnected from popular culture.  Doesn't worry me.

[LEE]

I'm obviously disconnected from popular culture.  Doesn't worry me.

Have you heard of Wowbagger?

If you have, and he's heard of you, then that could cause fluctuations in the Space-Time continuum.

The integrity of the Universe is held together by the facts that:

1) Wowbagger hasn't heard of n (Where n is something everyone else is aware of)

2) Wowbagger has heard of x (Where x plays Chess)

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

Interesting perspective on it here http://themuse.jezebel.com/woman-subject-the-fall-is-the-feminist-crime-show-wev-1680979443/+katedries?utm_campaign=socialfow_jezebel_twitter&utm_source=jezebel_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[Jakob]

This finally got on Netflix in Canadaland and a convenient cold allowed me to finish season 2.
I loved Season 1. Few quips about Gibson's accent, but otherwise very good.
I ended up hating season 2. It's a 2 hour story dragged out to 6 hours. Ending was predictable once Jimmy got re-introduced. Apart from Katie, any character development had all but stopped. Scenes with very little happening are dragged out to an eternity and this is from someone who loves Japanese cinema, who are masters of that type of stuff.

[Andrew]

I ended up hating season 2. It's a 2 hour story dragged out to 6 hours.

I'm glad I'm not alone! I certainly felt that way after reading reviews. (I like to read reviews after I've seen something). Whilst I didn't hate season 2, I felt it was a let down after the first series. And I certainly didn't see nor have the interpretations that some reviewers had (e.g the one linked to above). Praps I am an insensitive, sexist, misogynistic ignorant WASP after all - despite my lip service to the contrary! No escaping our fate after all!