Grammar that makes you cringe

[Wowbagger]

It seems that Hillary Clinton has been releasing old family photos to the media in order to make herself "more relatable".  This may mean something to USAnians.

Is that contrasted to 'Rela-under-the-table', as in Monica Lewinski's case?

Close, but no cigar.

[Wowbagger]

Source London, a provider of charging points for electric vehicles, has just sent me an email including the following sentence:-

We are very pleased to announce that we have repaired and replaced a numerous amount of charging points throughout London and this will continue to grow the coming year.

[Cudzoziemiec]

That's great!

How many? An amount. Can you be more precise? A numerous amount.

Real weasels in action! (Though I expect it was just someone changing their mind mid-sentence and no one checking it.)

[De Sisti]

Not so much grammar, but the use of the word brace, especially in sporting parlance.

".... and in tonight's game Joe Bloggs scored a brace of goals for City against Rovers."

What's wrong with the word couple?

".... and in tonight's game Joe Bloggs scored a couple of goals for City against Rovers."

[Andrij]

Or "two"?

[De Sisti]

Or "two"?

Indeed. That's fine too.

[red marley]

I suppose from hunting/shooting, a brace of pheasants etc, it helps to suggest the two goals were as a result of some skill or effort. Perhaps if they are more likely to generate a prodigious celebration it should be a magnum of goals. And for a big celebration of four goals, a Jeroboam.

[De Sisti]

I suppose from hunting/shooting, a brace of pheasants etc, it helps to suggest the two goals were as a result of some skill or effort. Perhaps if they are more likely to generate a prodigious celebration it should be a magnum of goals. And for a big celebration of four goals, a Jeroboam.

[Wowbagger]

I suppose from hunting/shooting, a brace of pheasants etc, it helps to suggest the two goals were as a result of some skill or effort. Perhaps if they are more likely to generate a prodigious celebration it should be a magnum of goals. And for a big celebration of four goals, a Jeroboam.

Careful, jo! People will accuse you of being a champagne socialist! 

[De Sisti]

This is more acceptable:

* Pelle scores twice to give Saints hope
* Martial double & Mata strike give Man Utd lead

[red marley]

Why grammar should do more than make us cringe: An interactive guide to ambiguous grammar (don't be tempted to skip sections; it's worth a full read).

[Chris S]

Interesting email exchange between a friend and Cambridge Online Dictionary.

It would seem (by interpretation of what they say) that World English, by virtue of being used by many more people than native British English, is the defining standard for written English, and in World English the ending "ize" is the preferred form, and the British English "ise" is deemed as an "alternative".

It's an outrage!

(Looks at the other screen.)

I'm going to have to change this function to "Initialize" now... 

[ian]

The usage of -ize predates -ise in British English. My OED gives -ize forms prime billing and lists -ise as alternates.

Why grammar should do more than make us cringe: An interactive guide to ambiguous grammar (don't be tempted to skip sections; it's worth a full read).

Brilliant and slightly chilling.

[T42]

^^^It were Dr. Sam'l Johnson what dun it.  He reckoned that -ize words were derived from French and since French uses -ise then that's what it ought to be in English too.  But take your pick, someone will always say you're wrong.

In any case there's what the majority says and what's right, e.g. 95% of people in the world (sez someone, probably looking for safety in numbers) believe in some form of god.

Anyway, the reason I crossed the jolly portal into this particular sinkhole was finding the word "camera" used as a verb in that august** periodical Hiss A Tory History Today:

Prominent on any given day would likely be ... a piece to camera on the significance of China to the global economy.

For we'll all blench together...

**we had a dog called Augustus

[Cudzoziemiec]

Doesn't that just mean "a piece in front of the camera" or, if you like, "speaking to the camera"? I don't think it's actually a verb.

Ian is right about -ize and -ise. But which it's best to use depends on who you're writing for.

[Mr Larrington]

Which is best to use from -ise and -ize depends on whether you want to be:

• BRITISH, or
• Wrong

I note that in Canada the first Monday in September is "Labour Day".

[ian]

Canadians broadly use what may be British English, so the u remains in colour and labour. Of course, we all lose the u eventually, it's laborious work clinging onto unnecessary letters.

[mattc]

Its amusing that we have a thread for grammar pedants and one for spelling pedants ...
and the pedants post in the wrong one.

[ian]

Yeahbut I'm not a pedant. I don't believe in grammar other than as an oppressive construct.

[Nuncio]

The -ise -ize debate on here predates the spelling one. I'm not sure how that affects the rules.

it's laborious work clinging onto unnecessary letters.

My postman was sacked for that sort of reasoning.

I still -ize, mainly to provoke people into saying it's American.  Then I can smugly show them my (admittedly out-of-date) Fowlers and Collins Gem (which  only gives the -ize for 'organize').

[T42]

Doesn't that just mean "a piece in front of the camera" or, if you like, "speaking to the camera"? I don't think it's actually a verb.

So that "a piece to camera" would be something like "a piece to music"?  Rather wretched, isn't it?  Maybe he meant it should be shut up somewhere.

Re -ise/-ize, I favour the -ize side myself but the excellent Dorothy Sayers used -ise, at least in the title of Murder must Advertise. Duh.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Basically, yes, but it's rather more literal than "to music". It could be thought of as a stage direction, I suppose.

Though I'm sure "to camera" as a verb could catch on. "We camera Scene 1 tomorrow but we won't mike the dialogue till later."

[mattc]

I have never had a problem with the phrase "piece to camera". It is clear, and I unaware of it breaking any rules.

I'm sure someone here can cure the latter ...

[T42]

Looked it up. Film/TV jargon.

[Ian H]

Jargon is fine when you're speaking to fellow jargs.