Author Topic: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?  (Read 31791 times)

Jes

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #75 on: 07 May, 2011, 03:13:04 pm »
Quote
Does anyone know many runners that used to be cyclists but had to give it up?

No numbers but as a former marathon and ultra marathon runner in SA where distance running is very popular, cyclings is referred to by runners as a sport for "ex runners requiring zimmer frames". I am now one of them.  In my running career I did over 100 marathons and 53 ultra marathons including six Comrades (54miles) marathons. A lot of my running mates now cycle for the simple fact that the injury caused by constant impact means they can no longer run.

Eight years ago my sports mad surgeon said he had good news and bad news for me. The bad news, I had to stop running - the good news, I could cycle as much as I liked. I've done that and have had no injuries or additional damage to the already-damaged (6 ops) knee joints.

Having experienced both sides of the coin, there is no doubt in my experience and I use experience literally, that running is more harmful. I do miss it though.



Uncle Eric

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #76 on: 07 May, 2011, 03:14:06 pm »
Cycling and running are completely different beasts.   though both have to put effort in on the flat and uphill, a cyclist can take a break on a downhill whereas a runner cannot.  

If you ride a fixed, especially with a low gear, your heart rate is often higher going down hills. I've been glad when the road has gone uphill again so that I can have a breather. That's one reason I like big gears. I can thunder down hills a lot easier and get some momentum up the next hill.

Like you say, they are different. You can get just as good a cardio workout with either, but I think that running is tougher because of the stress on joints.
How about comparing walking a marathon, maybe stopping for coffee now and then, just as you would on a 100 mile social ride and riding 100 miles as fast as you can?

Marathon runners seem to treat a marathon as a race. A social day on the bike isn

Tried that for a while 4 years ago. Went out early Sat morning and spent many hours on foot. Jogging 10 mins, walking 20 mins, and repeating that for up to 35 miles. That was nice, similar to Audax in terms of addiction and pleasure. Quite hard after 6 hours or so, getting quite sore in the core muscles and calfs. I'd say a 35 mile jog/walk like that was like a 300k Audax in effort and recovery time.

zigzag

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Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #77 on: 07 May, 2011, 03:24:10 pm »
In my running career I did over 100 marathons and 53 ultra marathons including six Comrades (54miles) marathons.

 :o you're mad! that's too much for human body! :)

simonp

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #78 on: 07 May, 2011, 03:30:07 pm »
Longest running event I've done is 1.136 miles. I reckon the fact my HR got to 193 says something, but I'm not sure what. :)

Jes

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #79 on: 07 May, 2011, 03:31:54 pm »
In my running career I did over 100 marathons and 53 ultra marathons including six Comrades (54miles) marathons.

 :o you're mad! that's too much for human body! :)

I never thought anything of it at the time.....it was only as I got older and things ache! We thought nothing of doing back to back marathons in a weekend.  :o We were young..... fit. The sun always shone and with 6am starts, the first beer was usually being opened by 10.am.....It was fun and sociable - a lot like audax and I think that's what made the switch so easy. Marathoners and audax-ers (?) are after the same sort of thing - thrash yourself then revel in the post mortems over good food and a good drink or two with fellow "sufferers"  ;D

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #80 on: 07 May, 2011, 03:42:09 pm »
In my running career I did over 100 marathons and 53 ultra marathons including six Comrades (54miles) marathons.

 :o you're mad! that's too much for human body! :)

 Marathoners and audax-ers (?) are after the same sort of thing - thrash yourself then revel in the post mortems over good food and a good drink or two with fellow "sufferers"  ;D
+ 1 :thumbsup:

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #81 on: 07 May, 2011, 05:20:43 pm »
I think the only way to get a ball park figure would be to be brutally honest about what level of cyclist you are. There's no point comparing the two disciplines if you're working from the WR marathon time because few cyclists would be capable of replicating that sort of effort.

The answer will be different for each individual based on how competent a cyclist they are. There will be a speed and distance for those trying to replicate WR marathon pace, likewise a speed and distance for those trying to replicate club runner pace, and obviously a speed and distance for those replicating fun runner pace.

Personally I'd rather dig my teeth out of my gums with an Aids riddled blunt butter knife than run further than the end of my street, bloody horrible sport.

Me, I'm an overweight cyclist not very capable of speed or distance so I would have to look at the energy exertion/calories used by a fun runner and then try and replicate that some way into cycling. My best is 52 miles at 13.7mph average so if I did that for a few weeks (as a fun runner might train for the marathon*) then doubling the distance would probably be the equivalent of a marathon for me.

* I've no idea how a fun runner trains for the marathon so I'm just guesstimating.

simonp

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #82 on: 07 May, 2011, 05:35:59 pm »
Anyone who cycles regularly but doesn’t run is going to have a distorted view of the relative difficulty.  Having good aerobic fitness doesn’t translate to running immediately; you use the muscles differently.  A couple of laps of the Science Park leaves me more sore than a 300k; that’s only about 2.5 miles.

But do it a few times and my times drop substantially and the soreness goes away.  I go from around 7.5-8 minute miles to 6 minute miles in a couple of weeks, and the being sore the next day goes away pretty quickly.

mattc

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Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #83 on: 07 May, 2011, 05:43:28 pm »
Anyone who cycles regularly but doesn’t run is going to have a distorted view of the relative difficulty. 

That's very true, but don't assume that anyone who does a lot of cycling has never done other sports. (Almost everyone runs a lot at school age :) )

Various sports such as football, tennis, badminton (singles) result in quite big miles being covered if you do them right.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

simonp

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #84 on: 07 May, 2011, 05:50:53 pm »
Anyone who cycles regularly but doesn’t run is going to have a distorted view of the relative difficulty.  

That's very true, but don't assume that anyone who does a lot of cycling has never done other sports. (Almost everyone runs a lot at school age :) )

Various sports such as football, tennis, badminton (singles) result in quite big miles being covered if you do them right.

I’ve played plenty 5-a-side and some 11-a-side football but you lose the running legs very quickly once you stop.  Anyone who ran around as a kid has no relevant experience, and certainly lacks the conditioning, for doing so in their 30s or later.  The fact is, I ran rings around people 10 years younger than me, whom I played against until I stopped a year or two ago.  A year or two of not running and cycling lots leads to having to go through the whole conditioning process all over again.  I ran my first six minute mile last year, which was all down to the aerobic fitness from cycling, but I still had to do some conditioning work to get used to running again.

Edit: added missing word.

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #85 on: 07 May, 2011, 06:00:47 pm »
Personally I'd rather dig my teeth out of my gums with an Aids riddled blunt butter knife than run further than the end of my street, bloody horrible sport

       Sounds like my wife who once described a "fun run" as "there aint nothing funny bout that"
       I admire people who run distance but find my trike a damn sight easier to cover long distance.
        By the by, has anyone tried a marathon with a full set of panners  ;D
The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, and wiser men so full of doubt.

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #86 on: 07 May, 2011, 07:47:14 pm »
By the by, has anyone tried a marathon with a full set of panners  ;D

Has anybody tried a 300 wearing a panda costume?  :)

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #87 on: 07 May, 2011, 09:21:14 pm »
you hum it and  - - -   8)
The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, and wiser men so full of doubt.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #88 on: 11 May, 2011, 11:08:32 am »
Has anybody tried a 300 wearing a panda costume?  :)

No, but if you recall, Drew Buck did ride the last PBP dressed as a French onion seller and riding a bizarre vintage two-speed contraption, which is probably the nearest equivalent.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #89 on: 11 May, 2011, 11:17:34 am »
Anyone who cycles regularly but doesn’t run is going to have a distorted view of the relative difficulty. 

That's very true, but don't assume that anyone who does a lot of cycling has never done other sports. (Almost everyone runs a lot at school age :) )

Various sports such as football, tennis, badminton (singles) result in quite big miles being covered if you do them right.

They're still not quite the same though.

I cover ~5km on a good week (closer to 4km usually) during an hour of 5-a-side and about 10km throughout a 90 minute 11-a-side game (playing left midfield). I can do this week in week out yet I have to struggle through 30 mins of sustained 10.5kph.

I'd compare 200km at usual Audax pace (i.e. ~11 hours or so) with a (plucks figure from air) 6 hour marathon (i.e. fast walking or slow jog pace). They seem about the same to me based on my experiences.

A 2h30 marathon is damn fast so you're looking at getting on for TdF pace at cycling, so ~5 hours for a 200km route.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #90 on: 11 May, 2011, 11:19:51 am »
I'm not a natural runner but I've tried following a bike ride with a run a couple of times (always with a warm-up swim, natch), and the times for both are similar-ish but the run is about 10x as hard.  

Even in training with just a bike or just a run then a hard, non-stop 80 mile bike and a 13 mile run probably take equal amounts of recovery time.  For the bike, it means working hard the whole way round to the point where I cant have a conversation and the run is 'steady', so the first six miles are fine and it gets progressively worse.

So for me, a hard 300k bike would probably be about the same as a marathon but a 300 at an easy pace would be much easier.

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #91 on: 11 May, 2011, 11:28:55 am »
A 2h30 marathon is damn fast so you're looking at getting on for TdF pace at cycling, so ~5 hours for a 200km route.

That's probably about right, Gethin Butler recently ran 2hours 33min in the London Marathon.
In 2002 he rode the Anfield 100 in 3 hours 48.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/2404582/Cycling-Butler-has-record-in-sight.html

By my reckoning that makes the equivalent distance between 60 and 65 miles.

mattc

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Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #92 on: 11 May, 2011, 11:30:35 am »
Yes, the thing we keep coming back to is that it's so pace-dependent. Cos cycling slowly is so easy, we tend to ride less hard than we could (especially on long rides).
But because running is actually LESS efficient than walking below some critical-speed, we mostly struggle to keep to a pace sustainable for many hours.

...
They're still not quite the same though.

I cover ~5km on a good week (closer to 4km usually) during an hour of 5-a-side and about 10km throughout a 90 minute 11-a-side game (playing left midfield). I can do this week in week out yet I have to struggle through 30 mins of sustained 10.5kph.
So 30mins @10.5kpm is harder than 60mins @5kph - sounds right to me! When I played the 90min game I'd be properly out-of-breath only a few times a game, but I got much worse DOMS due to all the short sprints.
 
Quote
I'd compare 200km at usual Audax pace (i.e. ~11 hours or so) with a (plucks figure from air) 6 hour marathon (i.e. fast walking or slow jog pace). They seem about the same to me based on my experiences.
I've yet to run for that far, but based on shorter distance runs, rides of various intensities, and very long walks, that sounds about right.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #93 on: 12 May, 2011, 12:28:29 am »
This is an interesting thread but one from which it is probably impossible to draw any conclusions, because, to be almost trite, everyone is different.  I remember once reading a snippet about a young man winning his first race on a butcher's bike.  The young man was Raymond Poulidor, which is the salient fact.  Gethin Butler is a rather special athlete.  I'd hazard a guess that very few, if any TdeF cyclists could run a marathon in 2hrs 30m.  That doesn't detract from their phenomenal abilities as cyclists, it just doesn't often transfer.

I was a keen runner, but, because I have one leg a lot longer than the other, I was  injured more often than not and never did more than about 40 miles a week.  I did a couple of marathons in my late 30s.   Both were under three hours, the best a hilly (Macclesfield) 2.47.  That's not a million miles away from Gethin's time but my cycling is.  Thirty years later, I have done a 200 in 9 hours or so but I'm pretty sure I could never have got anywhere near a decent roadie's time, even 30 years ago.  Admittedly, I just ride, I don't "train", but some people are exceptional and Gethin is one.

While I'm on, I think it was Greenbank compared an 11 hour 200 with a 6 hour marathon.  Maybe if you're a much better cyclist than runner, but you are going to be much more shattered, in my opinion, after the "run" because, even walking - and you'd have to be walking to take 6 hours - you'd have been on your feet for 6 hours (less the time spent on your knees!)

I think we're trying to compare apples with pears.  It's suck it and see.  Almost anyone who could ride a 200 could WALK a marathon.  Almost nobody could run one without a sensible build-up.

mattc

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Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #94 on: 12 May, 2011, 08:25:56 am »
 Gethin Butler is a rather special athlete.  I'd hazard a guess that very few, if any TdeF cyclists could run a marathon in 2hrs 30m.  That doesn't detract from their phenomenal abilities as cyclists, it just doesn't often transfer.

How do you know that? I suspect we just don't have much data on athletes that have bothered trying.

Think about the kids at school that were good at sport - how many were great at one, crap at the rest? Very few.  Many top athletes turn out to have had a choice as schoolkids.

So many attributes are transferable. Sure, cycling uses some different muscles to running - but the energy systems are in common. (I am certain from experience/experiment that running UPhill uses the same muscles as cycling).

The differences are probably significant if you're trying to win pro/elite races. But if you just want to get a ballpark figure I reckon they're far more similar than they are different.

Unless someone has data-and-or-science that proves different :)
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

simonp

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #95 on: 12 May, 2011, 08:55:05 am »
Armstrong's fastest time is 2h46.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #96 on: 12 May, 2011, 10:29:20 am »
2h46 is a seriously impressive time for a marathon but it's not even close to being an equivalent time to his level of performance on a bike.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

mattc

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Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #97 on: 12 May, 2011, 01:47:31 pm »
2h46 is a seriously impressive time for a marathon but it's not even close to being an equivalent time to his level of performance on a bike.

d.

Out of interest ... what would be? Assuming he had prepared as well for the marathon as for his 7 Tour wins, and taking his age into account.

Does anyone know how many people have run under 2h46? IAMFI, it might be 100,000s for all I know!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

simonp

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #98 on: 12 May, 2011, 01:48:35 pm »
2h46 is a seriously impressive time for a marathon but it's not even close to being an equivalent time to his level of performance on a bike.

d.

Out of interest ... what would be? Assuming he had prepared as well for the marathon as for his 7 Tour wins, and taking his age into account.

Does anyone know how many people have run under 2h46? IAMFI, it might be 100,000s for all I know!

Running economy is a big factor which is why runners with similar fitness can have quite different running times.

Re: Cycling distance equivalent to running a marathon?
« Reply #99 on: 12 May, 2011, 01:49:47 pm »
Does anyone know how many people have run under 2h46? IAMFI, it might be 100,000s for all I know!

If I remember correctly, roughly 250 people finished this years' London Marathon in under 2h45, including a school friend of mine (who wasn't that sporty back in school).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."