Winter tyre recommendation?

[tonycollinet]

Candidate for POTD (or perhaps POTDN)

[Torslanda]

Regarding tread and aquaplaning.

While it is true that you need to be doing something like stupid mph to cause a bike tyre to aquaplane that is only relevant when you are riding on water.

It takes no account of gravel, oil and other contaminants, leaves and other vegetable matter or anything else which comes between a tyre and the road.

This is entirely subjective but I believe the best tyre has a 'file' tread which cuts through road clag and disperses water, a slick is simply going to try to compress oil etc. on to the water underneath.

[Hot Flatus]

None of my bikes have tread. If you consider the very high pressures compared to car tyres and the tiny amount of actual contact area with the road, reducing it further with tread seems unwise.

[border-rider]

It's easier to spin a wheel on a wet, grungy climb, or lock one with leg braking on a descent, with a slick  tyres.

I'm sure that on relatively clean roads it makes little difference, and I suspect that with ice slicks will give better grip.

[Biggsy]

There are so many factors to whether a tyre grips or not in real-world cycling that it's hard to single any individual one out.  And don't forget that for a fair comparison, the tyres have to be of the same size, and with the same pressure and rubber compound.

I'm playing it safe by assuming that all bicycle tyres are equally poor at gripping when on anything other than clean dry tarmac.  I'm afraid you're doomed if you put much faith into any tyre when it comes to cornering.

[TimO]

With a dry or purely wet road, a slick will give maximum contact area.  You will not get aquaplaning with bicycle tyres, since you need to do something like 120mph on bicycle wheels to get this effect!

Once you add in contaminants like gravel, mud, and oil it becomes a whole lot more complex, and some grip may help, but to what extent is going to be variable and will largely depend on the degree of additional material.  Obviously off-road riding will need a lot of grip, but when there is some loose stuff on an otherwise solid roadbed, what degree of grip is required is going to be a very personal choice.

For ice at least, studs will largely solve the problem, although the exact degree is again likely to depend on other complex factors such as thickness of ice, presence of snow, and stud distribution over the tyres surface.  Ice tyres seem to favour studs off of the centreline, to aid cornering without impacting straight line rolling resistance.  Those tyres designed to deal with snow as well tend to have more grip (like MTB tyres) to help with traction in the looser material.

[inc]

A large factor in how good a tyre grips is down to the rubber compound, which is then a trade off of grip over wear. I regularly ( almost daily) ride up a steep single track lane it is overhung with trees and is on a North slope with no sun most of the year  and is often slippery with grip being a problem. Last year I bought some Pro 3 's and the grip level is far better than any other tyre I have ridden but at  £30 a go and just  3000km if i am lucky an expensive tyre.

[Hot Flatus]

That last post is spot on. Grip seems to decline with pUncture and cut resistance too

[Bledlow]

But, yeah, Gatorskins.

...are rubbish

Exactly. Every now & then someone says something like this, but Mrs B loves hers. She can get them on & off (unlike many tyres), didn't get a visitation for at least 2000 miles, & finds them fine in both wet & icy conditions.

I switched to using 'em as a result of her praise of them, & have no complaints. I once came off on ice with water running across it.

I recall an argument about tyre X on another forum where poster Y complained that they were rubbish, far too heavy for his ultra-light carbon bike, much heavier than his usual featherweight tyres, & poster Z complained that they were fit only for the dustbin because they were far more puncture prone than his usual 3 ton armour-plated tyres, & useless for his glass, pothole & flint strewn commute. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

It's even funnier when you read MTB riders describing tyres like Marathons as 'slicks'.

[Hot Flatus]

Indeed.

I used gators for years. They are good, but there are tyres around now that do the same job better.

I ramped them up and down a stony track on a daily basis with no problems.

I think the confusion arises when people don't compare like with like. Gators are an attempt at a lighter weight training tyre with puncture resistance. Marathons most certainly aren't.

[Polar Bear]

Gators have been around for so long and are still a popular tyre shows more than any glib comment that they are still a good tyre.   Folk quickly abandon rubbish.   I've had no problems using them for four years on my audax bike (I use 28's) whereas my partner uses 25's on hers.  She's had two visitations in that time though she has covered  lot more miles than I have.

We use them year round.    I notice that they cut up and wear quite badly over the winter so we're going to use Marathons this winter.   I got them for just £11 each from Spa.

[токамак]

Last winter I tried a set of Vredestein Volante and have been very impressed. I do some hard gritty miles in winter training mode and these have stood up to it well - zero punctures and they still look almost new / good for another season. They are made of a noticeably heavier compound, but I'll happily take that trade-off over faffing to replace a tube in the freezing cold and wet!

[Manotea]

I used Gaters for several years. Tried GP4 Seasons for a change. Ostensibly similar but seem to have a softer rubber compound. More grippy especially when cornering - I'm much more confident leaning the bike over now -  and less prone to cuts. Possibly wears faster but not terribly bothered by that. I replaced my back tyre after ~5k (?) when I got my first p*nct*r* and discovered I was down to the canvas. I've usually swapped out a Gaterskin because of cuts long before then. Gaters used to be cheap. Not so much nowadays.

[Hot Flatus]

I used to buy them for £11 each.

It was really the worrying lack of grip on damp roads that made me look for an alternative

[mrcharly-YHT]

It's really greasy atm, isn't it?  I've got a pasela on the back; thinking of switching it out for the Zaffiro Pro Slick spare.  Rear wheel slipped out on me a few times this morning.

[Rhys W]

I've also been using Gatorskins for winter clubruns for the last few years. I've found them ok for grip even in the wet, puncture resistance is fine and they wear very well indeed. Plenty of life left in last winter's pair after 120-150 miles a week for 6 months. A few small cuts, but my summer tyre of choice (Michelin Pro 3s) are normally ready for the bin (cuts and tread wear) after half that.

[rogerzilla]

Gatorskins were the worst tyres I have ever used.  The hazard on my commute is glass from smashed bottles outside a particularly chavvy pub.  Slick Schwalbe Stelvios have done a year without succumbing, as (obviously) have Marathon Pluses.  Gatorskins got two punctures in two weeks and when I went to repair the second one, there was so much deeply embedded glass in the tread that they went in the bin.

[Rhys W]

Hmmm... I consider glass to be a big problem for me as well (as soon as I'm out of the door unfortunately). I've prematurely destroyed several Michelin Pro 3s that way, but Gators definitely do better (same summer/winter combo used for several years now). I've read more than once that Gators resist penetration as long as you pump them up hard, and being 60kg I probably have a more leeway than average in that respect. I've just got the winter bike ready this week and last winter's tyres still look decent - some small cuts but no more punctures than normal, maybe one or two over the winter.

YMMV, if ever there was one I think. I ordered another pair at the LBS today.

[urban_biker]

Indeed.

I used gators for years. They are good, but there are tyres around now that do the same job better.

I ramped them up and down a stony track on a daily basis with no problems.

I think the confusion arises when people don't compare like with like. Gators are an attempt at a lighter weight training tyre with p*nct*r* resistance. Marathons most certainly aren't.

I've used gatorskins twice. On both occasions they split, once when hitting a large stone and once when I caught a pothole. I have never had this problem with the Schwalbe Blizzards/Lugano I am using now and they are probably more lightweight or at least comparable with the gatorskins.

Ok so if I hit a large stone at speed with the Blizzards then I am likely to get a puncture but I've never had a damaged tyre. It seems to me that the gatorskins are particularly prone to that kind of damage. Personally I won't use them again - I can't afford a £25 tyre that splits like that.

Agree that they are as good as most other kevlar banded tyres in protecting against small flint, glass punctures etc.

[Hot Flatus]

Were they pumped up to at least 100psi?

[border-rider]

Gatorskins were the worst tyres I have ever used. deeply embedded glass in the tread that they went in the bin.

We seem to hear such mixed reports of these.  I had endless trouble with them with flints, to the extent that i took them off my winter bikes, but they seemed OK against thorns. Living here where thorns are the issue and flints not, I'm using my old ones on the trike with no issues; I even quite like them.  Back in Lambourn they were close to unusable.

[Hot Flatus]

I don't get many punctures, in comparison to what I hear from other riders. I'm wondering whether it is down to a combination of making sure they are all pumped hard, at least 100psi, replacing the tyres before they wear too thin, and generally very careful riding in terms of pothole avoidance, and keeping an eye out for glass, gravel and hedge cuttings.

[border-rider]

probably

i never had trouble with them on audaxes, but commuting was a nightmare.  But then very few tyres were Ok against the West Berks flints.  Oddly, Panaracers and cheapo Continental Sports (with nasty white walls) fared better than anything except the serious stuff (Armadillos and M Plusses)  I never figured out why.

[Tom]

Probably going to get shot down flames, but does anyone have any recommendations for 20c winter tyres?  My winter bike is based around a racing frame and, with crudguards fitted, doesn't have the clearance for anything bigger.  I've got a GP4000 on it at the mo, but don't expect that to last much longer.  For obvious reasons, most of the normal winter tyres aren't available in anything less than 23c.

Thanks.