Random audax questions

[N0rb3rt]

those who don’t plan to stick to the route?

Audax rules states you can go whatever way you want between the controls, but if the organizer does not tell you what points you have to go through then he is the one who is not complying with the rules.
Provided GPX files does not say where are the info controls. The provided PDF and the instructions are  gibberish to me.
We are in 2022. These people organizing self navigating events, and they can not get a GPS coordinate out. Open Google Maps, right click on location, and there it is in the popup menu. That is really difficult, is it?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You really do not know the history of the Wessex SR.

[felstedrider]

The default, as far as the organiser is concerned, is that the rider uses their route.   The organiser will have put a lot of time into designing it.

If the rider has a preferred route between controls (local knowledge, etc) then they are free to use it but it’s their responsibility to ensure they pass through the controls as prescribed.

Planning forward is generally troublesome.   I’ve had at least a couple of events this year with sudden changes.  One was announced on the start line due to the last minute loss of a commercial control.   The organiser came up with a straightforward change and communicated clearly. 

[mattc]

The default, as far as the organiser is concerned, is that the rider uses their route.   The organiser will have put a lot of time into designing it.

If the rider has a preferred route between controls (local knowledge, etc) then they are free to use it but it’s their responsibility to ensure they pass through the controls as prescribed.

Planning forward is generally troublesome.   I’ve had at least a couple of events this year with sudden changes.  One was announced on the start line due to the last minute loss of a commercial control.   The organiser came up with a straightforward change and communicated clearly.

Everything here is true, BUT:
Organisers have to notify AUK of their control locations INCLUDING INFOS many months before the event; I believe it won't be published until this is done (and checked). Of course there may be last-minute changes, but it's not at all difficult to make this information available - in good faith, "subject to change etc" - to riders.

[D.A.L.E.]

Fuck N0rb3rt you sound like hard work.

The provided PDF and the instructions are  gibberish to me.
We are in 2022.

Aye, well the rides not until 2023, plenty of time to figure it out.

[D.A.L.E.]

Everything here is true, BUT:
Organisers have to notify AUK of their control locations INCLUDING INFOS many months before the event; I believe it won't be published until this is done (and checked). Of course there may be last-minute changes, but it's not at all difficult to make this information available - in good faith, "subject to change etc" - to riders.

I feel like the old site used to give "info controls at X" info but I might be misremembering. While I agree a rough approximation would be nice, I suppose the problem is info controls can be in the middle of nowhere, so an organiser will give the closest place name when the sign post is a kilometre and a half away and you'll get mouthbreathers who insist on routing themselves (not mentioning any names) turning up at place name and not finding the info.

Or it could be in a location where there's only likely one question available and it stops people jumping on Google Maps.

I don't know. Or care. It's grown adults riding bikes wearing spandex ffs.

[N0rb3rt]

Organisers have to notify AUK of their control locations INCLUDING INFOS many months before the event

Thank you. Looks like you and I are the only two people here who did bother to read the rules.

[felstedrider]

I love being belittled by newbies.  It has become my favourite thing.

[N0rb3rt]

The organiser will have put a lot of time into designing it.

I don't care. If it's a too much hurtle to them, then do not organize an event. It's simple as that.

it’s their responsibility to ensure they pass through the controls as prescribed.

They are not  prescribing the locations properly. Having it hidden somewhere in the 321432.th turn instruction on a 8 page long PDF. That is not appropriate . A GPS coordinate looks like this:   51.3423 -1.59701
You don't have scroll through 8 pages, and there is no chance of missing one. Also in the PDF the search function is disabled, so if you miss one, you are not getting the event validated. I'm not a secretary to scroll through 8 pages, and pay 18 quid to Audax uk,and another 10-20 quid to the organizer.
We are in 2022, so getting a GPS coordinate out is 2 clicks using Google Maps.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Pedants and newbies should aspire to learn more.

The more I read about this, the more I think the organiser should dig their heels in.

[N0rb3rt]

plenty of time to figure it out.

Paying Audax Uk 18 quid a year, then paying additional 10-20 quid for the event, I won't "figure it out", and don't want messing with that. It should be posted according to Audax rules,and not hidden somewhere between the 23324.th turn in a 8 page long PDF.

[felstedrider]

The default, as far as the organiser is concerned, is that the rider uses their route.   The organiser will have put a lot of time into designing it.

If the rider has a preferred route between controls (local knowledge, etc) then they are free to use it but it’s their responsibility to ensure they pass through the controls as prescribed.

Planning forward is generally troublesome.   I’ve had at least a couple of events this year with sudden changes.  One was announced on the start line due to the last minute loss of a commercial control.   The organiser came up with a straightforward change and communicated clearly.

Everything here is true, BUT:
Organisers have to notify AUK of their control locations INCLUDING INFOS many months before the event; I believe it won't be published until this is done (and checked). Of course there may be last-minute changes, but it's not at all difficult to make this information available - in good faith, "subject to change etc" - to riders.

Yeah, I was thinking back to when I last organised and it was actually some time ago.  I didn’t finalise a lot of controls until a couple of months before the event.

[felstedrider]

Pedants and newbies should aspire to learn more.

The more I read about this, the more I think the organiser should dig their heels in.

If I got a question like this 8-10 mths before an event was due to happen I’d tell the rider to do one.  As I grow older I am less accommodating professionally and personally.  It’s probably not an uncommon approach.

[The Bonk]

plenty of time to figure it out.

Paying Audax Uk 18 quid a year, then paying additional 10-20 quid for the event, I won't "figure it out", and don't want messing with that. It should be posted according to Audax rules,and not hidden somewhere between the 23324.th turn in a 8 page long PDF.

Have you considered organising some events yourself?

[N0rb3rt]

Have you considered organising some events yourself?

No, and if I can not comply with the rules I definitely won't.

[Lightning Phil]

Not every organiser is a whizz with technology and gpx tracks and particularly waypoints for controls is a bonus not a requirement.

I do provide the location of all controls including infos in my gpx as waypoints or cue points etc for my events.  But that’s just because I came from using gps well before I started riding (then organising) audax.   But I don’t send this out 8 months in advance, usually a week or two before the event once final route check complete.

Some organisers will only provide the exact location of infos in the route sheet.  But it’s easy to go from that to identifying on a map and getting the coordinates.  Just take the route sheet distance against the info and match that to an map with the gpx loaded.

But no organiser wants riders to fail by missing an info. I would wait till much nearer the event, and the organiser sends out their entrant information.  If from that, you still cannot identify the info control locations then reply to the organiser asking.   

[felstedrider]

I was entered for the National 12hr champs some years ago.  It got to the Sunday night the weekend before and I sent the organiser an e-mail asking if he could confirm the location of the HQ (reasonable size town - could have bern 5 of 6 different places).   I received a very terse response saying the information was going out by post on Monday morning, but still not telling me where the HQ was.

Anyway I digress.

[mattc]

Organisers have to notify AUK of their control locations INCLUDING INFOS many months before the event

Thank you. Looks like you and I are the only two people here who did bother to read the rules.

Just to be clear: there isn't a requirement to tell RIDERS. Only to tell AUK (who approve the event).

[tippers_kiwi]

I've never done the Wessex Series but from reading on here and talking to those that have half the fun of it is spending the rides wondering if you are lost and where you should go next.

Guess if you don't like a bit of an adventure there are a lot of other options both in and out of Audax, I love an adventure but I'm not a massive fan of lots and lots of hills.

[citoyen]

Everything here is true, BUT:
Organisers have to notify AUK of their control locations INCLUDING INFOS many months before the event; I believe it won't be published until this is done (and checked). Of course there may be last-minute changes, but it's not at all difficult to make this information available - in good faith, "subject to change etc" - to riders.

I wouldn’t normally finalise the precise location/details of the info until quite close to the date of the event.

All you have to tell AUK at the time of registering the ride is the rough location of the info - and that only for route validation purposes.

[N0rb3rt]

I would wait till much nearer the event, and the organiser sends out their entrant information.

First that's what I did. Just 1 week before the event emailed the organizer. No response for days. I had his number because I've registered. Had to reach him on the mobile number.
Then I decided to ask months before, maybe that will change things. It does not.

infos in the route sheet.  But it’s easy to go from that to identifying on a map and getting the coordinates.  Just take the route sheet distance against the info and match that to an map with the gpx loaded.

I definitely don't want to scroll trough 8 pages of directions to find the info controls. Also the 'find' function is disabled, so if you miss one your weekend is ruined, all of because some organizers don't know what right click is in Google Maps.
Also I pay 18 quid for 1 y membership,and 10-20 quid for the event, I won't go full secretary to get the locations out, when for the organizer it would be 2 minutes on Google Maps to get 6 info control locations in GPS coordinates.

[N0rb3rt]

there isn't a requirement to tell RIDERS.

Then how they expect the riders to find it? Using the provided GPX file is not mandatory, but you have no other viable option. The route sheet is hard to follow or oldschool , and hope that you won't miss one after the 32438 th. turn.

[citoyen]

I'm not going on the little lanes, gravel roads,  cycle paths, and so on.

You might be in for a shock when you do get the location of the infos.

[Lightning Phil]

I definitely don't want to scroll trough 8 pages of directions to find the info controls. Also the 'find' function is disabled, so if you miss one your weekend is ruined, all of because some organizers don't know what

Eh? You just do find for info, less than 2 mins job.  Having looked at route sheet of event you mention, it looks fairly straightforward to identify info locations from description given.

[N0rb3rt]

You just do find for info, less than 2 mins job.

I couldn't do it for 20 min. Even if I could, it's too much chance for an error. A GPS coordinate is accurate and you can not fail on that(if you given the right one by the organizer)