Beardys running log - Ct5k

[Beardy]

Now that it’s cooled down a bit and as I can’t go to the pub, I think I’ll go for a run.

ETA: 30min done, 20 steady and 10 pushing some. I’ve got a definite shin splint developing on my left shin 

[Polar Bear]

Had a rest over the weekend.  Went out and did 6k this morning.  Bagged a new 5k PB entirely unintentionally in the process.

I need to learn how to pace.  I just don't have a clue.  10k scheduled for Wednesday.

[Beardy]

It would appear that according to my watch data, that I analyses later, I have no clue how to pace either! Last nights run was possible the most erratically paced run I’ve ever recorded. It’s all over the place, and the bit where I thought I was pushing harder showed no difference in erratic than any other part of the run. My HR did go up though, and indeed my HR was a bit higher than I usually manage and fairly constant.

Technology is a wonderful thing though, I can record all sorts of stats about my speed and pace and HR and breathing and cadence and stride length. And other stuffs. I’ve no idea how to get any sort of control over any other them in spite of real time monitoring. But I can record them all in grate detail 😏

[Polar Bear]

The one which makes me chuckle is the VO2.  Mine yoyo's up and down and my theoretical fitness age goes with it.  I have what I consider to be a good run and I age, a poor run and I revisit the fountain of eternal youth.

Provides for great entertainment.

[Greenbank]

It would appear that according to my watch data, that I analyses later, I have no clue how to pace either! Last nights run was possible the most erratically paced run I’ve ever recorded. It’s all over the place, and the bit where I thought I was pushing harder showed no difference in erratic than any other part of the run. My HR did go up though, and indeed my HR was a bit higher than I usually manage and fairly constant.

Even with a perfectly evenly paced run I'd expect HR to steadily increase, that's just Cardiovascular Drift.

Technology is a wonderful thing though, I can record all sorts of stats about my speed and pace and HR and breathing and cadence and stride length. And other stuffs. I’ve no idea how to get any sort of control over any other them in spite of real time monitoring. But I can record them all in grate detail 😏

If cadence remains the same the stride length is just proportional to speed. Mo Farah running at sub 3min/km at 180spm means he travels twice as far with each stride as I do when I run at ~6min/km at 180spm.

The actual values for respiration rate, stride length, vertical oscillation, cadence, etc are all well and good but they're mostly secondary to the action of running. The things you can be in control of are speed and cadence and that's about it.

I know some people tend to force themselves to run at a faster cadence, and it doesn't take long to retrain the brain, but I tend to plod at 160spm naturally. I know that as I get faster (which is mostly due to me weighing less) it tends to increase. I was averaging 170spm back when I was lighter and running a sub 25min 5k. I reckon it might even go up towards the magic 180spm if I ever got down to my target weight.

L/R balance can be interesting to see if you're hiding an injury, although it's very easy to see things that aren't there, especially if the ground isn't completely flat. I've got plenty of runs along the Thames Path the L/R balance shifts from 48/52 to 52/48 at the exact point I turn around and run the same route backwards. The seemingly flat path must be angled slightly towards the river. This is the classic example: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1616641840 if you look at the details for L/R balance.

My VO2 is steady, but wildly inaccurate. It claims to be 45 at the moment, which predicts a 24:16 5k despite the fastest I've run in the last 6 months is 27:58. I think I know why (it believes I can get near my HR_max whilst running, which I can't since my HR_max was set playing 5-a-side where I can push myself, momentarily, a lot harder) but I can't be arsed to try and work around it. I'm looking forward to the day that the VO2max goes up since it's been 45 for the last 2 years despite my fitness varying hugely.

[sojournermike]

It would appear that according to my watch data, that I analyses later, I have no clue how to pace either! Last nights run was possible the most erratically paced run I’ve ever recorded. It’s all over the place, and the bit where I thought I was pushing harder showed no difference in erratic than any other part of the run. My HR did go up though, and indeed my HR was a bit higher than I usually manage and fairly constant.

Even with a perfectly evenly paced run I'd expect HR to steadily increase, that's just Cardiovascular Drift.

Technology is a wonderful thing though, I can record all sorts of stats about my speed and pace and HR and breathing and cadence and stride length. And other stuffs. I’ve no idea how to get any sort of control over any other them in spite of real time monitoring. But I can record them all in grate detail 😏

If cadence remains the same the stride length is just proportional to speed. Mo Farah running at sub 3min/km at 180spm means he travels twice as far with each stride as I do when I run at ~6min/km at 180spm.

The actual values for respiration rate, stride length, vertical oscillation, cadence, etc are all well and good but they're mostly secondary to the action of running. The things you can be in control of are speed and cadence and that's about it.

I know some people tend to force themselves to run at a faster cadence, and it doesn't take long to retrain the brain, but I tend to plod at 160spm naturally. I know that as I get faster (which is mostly due to me weighing less) it tends to increase. I was averaging 170spm back when I was lighter and running a sub 25min 5k. I reckon it might even go up towards the magic 180spm if I ever got down to my target weight.

L/R balance can be interesting to see if you're hiding an injury, although it's very easy to see things that aren't there, especially if the ground isn't completely flat. I've got plenty of runs along the Thames Path the L/R balance shifts from 48/52 to 52/48 at the exact point I turn around and run the same route backwards. The seemingly flat path must be angled slightly towards the river. This is the classic example: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1616641840 if you look at the details for L/R balance.

My VO2 is steady, but wildly inaccurate. It claims to be 45 at the moment, which predicts a 24:16 5k despite the fastest I've run in the last 6 months is 27:58. I think I know why (it believes I can get near my HR_max whilst running, which I can't since my HR_max was set playing 5-a-side where I can push myself, momentarily, a lot harder) but I can't be arsed to try and work around it. I'm looking forward to the day that the VO2max goes up since it's been 45 for the last 2 years despite my fitness varying hugely.

It’s interesting how we all have different experiences. I think it’s actually quite hard to control cadence, although you can train in a way to encourage Faster turnover. Optimal cadence probably depends on lots of factors and isn’t simply 180spm anyway. It’s a bit like trying to modify foot strike, which is difficult and may not be worth it.

VO2 max on my Garmin is quite responsive to my training. After ticking up to 51 last month, it fell back to 50 last week after 3 weeks of reduced volume. Funny thing was that I knew that I’d lost a bit of the edge in the couple of runs before it fell. Max HR assessment is key though. If it gets the wrong idea it will skew the numbers. I tend to set zones using LTHR, as I think that tends to be more consistently measured.

Enjoy the run everyone

Mike

[Polar Bear]

A bad morning.   

Went out for a steady 10k but found that the motivation had completely gone and dnf'd at 7k.  On top of this I'm disillusioned with what Garmin is telling me which is so different now to what I was getting with the 735XT.  It seems to have decided that run by run I am getting less fit and less productive.  Mark's out of 10 for motivation - nil.

Much more of this and I'll go back to the 735.  Sometimes these things can be too clever.

Anyway, all that has made me feel really shit this morning and yet I still did 7k which was not possible to months ago.  So confusing. 

I hate you Garmin.  I want to enjoy my runs.

[sojournermike]

PB - you can safely ignore it when the garmin says you’re unproductive. I get it every time I ramp up workload after a rest week or work getting in the way. Now I tend to just carry on regardless. The only time you’d need to worry about that would be if you were on a constantly high or increasing load, when it might point to overtraining. I wouldn’t want to depend on the garmin to detect that really - it’s too individual and nuanced.

So, well done. You finished 7k, which you wouldn’t have been able to do a few months ago. You’re running regularly and I suspect would still enjoy it without the stats! Sometimes it’s worth leaving the watch at home I reckon.

Mike

[Beardy]

PB a DNF at 7k seems like a good start to the day. Remember that DNFing is easy to avoid, don’t start! And that’s just daft. And of course I’ve done 7k more than your neighbour who was probably still in bed when you were worrying about only having done 7k

Take care.

[Polar Bear]

Thanks gentlemen.  You are right of course.

Playing on my mind as it is I have been looking through other Garmin stats such as load.  It is odd that it says my load is at the top end of optimum to maintain and improve fitness yet it also says that I am unproductive.  And, my "fitness age" has swung by 12 in the past 2 weeks though still significantly lower than my actual age.

Makes the stats look a bit silly.

I have emailed my pre Covid PT for some thoughts.  This person understands me far far better than a bunch of algorithms and some blingy tech.

[guidon]

Sometimes it's better to get rid of all the tech and run how you feel....at least for a bit... In the past I have found it beneficial rather than being a number cruncher and feeling down than there isn't a linear progression to the desired goal...

[mrcharly-YHT]

Same issue with Strava. I had a week where I logged some serious km in kayak and running. More than normal.

This week and the past week I've focused on technique, strength and speed work. Any running has been at a recovery pace and short.

So Strava reports that my effort level is 'lower than average'.

[Beardy]

As I’m sure I’ve mentioned I’m following a Garmin Coach plan, but due to a visit from the black dog last week, I’m playing catch up. Yesterday’s session was an intervals set, but as I’d done a long (fcvo) run on Tuesday and my shin splint was a bit sore, I postponed it until today. However, garmin had marked yesterday’s session as Skipped and nothing I could do would let me reinstate it or reschedule it.    So I created my own session to mirror the GC session and apart from first of all creating the intervals as 20 minUte sprint followed by 45 minute recover times 10 (eek!), the session went well. Of course, GC doesn’t acknowledge my ad hoc session, so I’m not sure what the algorithm will do for next week.

My next decision is whether or not to do the progress session tomorrow (30 minute light followed by 10 min it’s harder) or leave it until saturday and then do Sunday’s run on Monday after which I’ll be caught up.

And another thing. Why is it that all the training programmes I’ve seen increment the sessions in 5 minute blocks, even though they are preparing you for a specific distance? It’s irritating.

[sojournermike]

There are disadvantages to algorithms!

I’d just do the session as long you aren’t too tired. I’ve never used one their coaching plans, but when I do structure, for me or friends, I try to stay flexible to both daily tiredness/work commitments and overall load capacity. Sometimes stuff has to move around a bit.

Think we’re starting a 5km program next week. Hopefully that’ll be fun (type x)

[Polar Bear]

So, my PT thinks that I need to re-focus and mix things up a bit.  We're thinking HIIT, swapping one of my runs for an intervals session and lessening my focus on half marathons for now.

Also, we're going to try and find a short but sharp hill locally for some hill reps.

I'll still be going out for my 10k in the morning though.

[sojournermike]

Excellent, intervals:)

We have to finalise, but next weeks sessions will either be my 10km prescription or a 5km alternative:

Day                                   10km                                              5km
Sunday                        long easy run                                 6 miles easy
Monday                              rest                                        5  miles in 38:45
Tuesday              4 x 500mR100m/100m/R500m                10 x 200m in 42s / R400m
Wednesday                  4-6 miles easy                                4 miles easy
Thursday              6 x 4minLTHR/2min jog                          4 x 800m in 3:30 / R800
Friday                   rest or 4 mile easy                                5 miles easy
Saturday          4-6 miles easy inc 6x100m hills/strides        5 miles in 38:45

Both are week 1 of 8 week programs. The 5km is not mine, but is targeting sub 21 minutes. I can probably do all the sessions, although the 10 x 200 might leave me a bit stiff. The real challenge is keeping up the weekly development.

The 10km program has some specific timings/paces attached and is focused around specific development areas of speed development and running comfortably at speed, together with threshhold speed and improving the ability to sustain pace through the full 10km.

Whether I can sustain this remains to be seen - quite apart from the load, there is a real issue with work getting in the way, even under lockdown. Plus, no track of course.


PB, you'll learn to enjoy your intervals!

[Polar Bear]

As part of my "reset" I took an extra rest day yesterday and went out this morning.  My PT suggested that I don't try to do Wednesday's session again as all I would be doing was inviting anxiety.: better to go for a gentle recovery.  So I did

In my head I hadn't worked out what to do until I was walking to the rec where I run.  I settled on the regular 6k short /recovery session and resolved to work on pacing.  I have the watch set up to give me pace every half km.

Sunrise was beautiful this morning.  I was at the rec well befor 05:00.

I settled in to a very steady pace averaging 6:15 / km and the half km prompts came and went.  I got to 6km and carried on as I'd only have to walk back to the other end of the rec on my way home.  Anyway, eventually rolled out 7k keeping the pace on track throughout.

So in conclusion:  I enjoyed a very steady and relaxed 7km run and managed to do a decent pacing session to boot.  It all felt positive and I'm much happier today.

I have also decided to lift the pressure off my shoulders of trying to achieve a half marathon in the autumn.  Better to simply gain strength and fitness for a while methinks.

And the Garmin?  Yeah, the stupid thing still thinks that my training is unproductive.  Pity that it doesn't have a soul.

[sojournermike]

I’ve just had a week of unproductive too - the little beggar. Still enjoyed being out;)
Just about to head out for a few miles through the Nidd Gorge

[Polar Bear]

Enjoy.   

[mrcharly-YHT]

too windy to carry kayak last night so I went for a run.
Legs like lead, well off pace. Strava (on phone) saying about 11kph or under.
Legs so tired I walked 3 times.
Get home, stop recording. 54min for 10k. That's slow for me,  but faster than the pace shown while running!

Strava, you suck.

[Beardy]

I misjudged that one! I’ve been ‘down south’ for 26 years now, and I’m still caught out by it getting dark in the summer. I set of for a run at 10 o’clock in black and without a torch. Idiot man.
A good run though.

[Polar Bear]

I love holidaying during June on the Scottish Islands.  Shetland in particular is incredible with the "simmer dim" resulting in almost 24 hour daylight.  Must be grim during the long, dark winter though.

What a difference a few days make.  Out later than of late this morning but the motivation and self-belief were much better today and the scheduled 10k was achieved in a respectable time.

I am working on pacing at the moment so I have something other than self-doubt to occupy my thoughts.  Seems to work.  Also, I got rid of the panel on the Garmin app dashboard which shouts "unproductive" at me every time I open the app.  Makes quite a big difference not seeing negativity all the time.

[Beardy]

Just done 7k @8:10min/k slow, but the first 3k were sub 7:30min/k. I think I could probably complete 10K now, but i reckon it’d take me about 90 minutes. It would seem that the intervals are helping

[Ashaman42]

Just about to head out for run 3 of week 8 of C25K. Yes I'm a day late but my ankle/foot was still sore yesterday so I thought a little extra rest might be a good idea.

I do have some insoles that should help a little with the fact the soles have collapsed on my trainers. Should hopefully tide me over till I can get to a shoe shop.

[Beardy]

I did the C25K last summer and managed to keep going through winter, although with reduced outings. I’m now trying to get up to 10K And seem to be on target at the moment. I’m hoping to get there before the anniversary of me starting C25K.
If a lardarse like me can do it, I’d suggest anyone can.  Good luck.