Cross Training: Running

[L CC]

Diagnosis:
Irritation at the joint line, pelvic instability, excessive pronation, some ligament damage, lots of core weakness.
Prognosis:
Fair to good
Treatment:
Nothing that makes it hurt. No running, no walking, no deep squats. No core training, just really ("this is really yawn, but just go with it, if you have to tense and concentrate, you're working too hard") basic work on my pelvis. Hamstring stretches. Orthotics. If it hurts, stop. If it hurts afterwards, don't do it again. Pool running- ok if it doesn't hurt. (Though I'd have to ride to the pool, as walking hurts  )

Sigh.

I'm definitely out for the rest of February as far as Jantastic is concerned. Sorry.

[Dibdib]

Bummer, fboab. Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.

[citoyen]

Sorry to hear that, fboab. Don't let it get you down.

[mattc]

On the plus  side, you managed to get some treatment on a Saturday. This is impossible with all the quacks I've known!

[Swarm_Catcher]

Put your feet up fboab, rest for as long as you can, then go for a gentle ride to York around Easter

[Henry]

Got fitted up for real running shoes at last, did a "first proper run" today. Gentle 1 hour with my brother. Hailstones stinging the face requiring use of safety squint, but then a gigantic tailwind once we turned our backs to it.

All in all really enjoyed it and will aim to keep it up. The investment made in the kit should motivate for a while. No long distance plans though, just a little cross-training to supplement the cycling 

[sojournermike]

.... Do your feet spread with age?

... it was quite an eye-opener about how fast some of the quicker vets are.

1. Yes, I believe they do a bit.

2. Yes, I remember approaching 40 and thinking I might have a crack at 800 again, then noticing the British champ had run 1:49 that year and wouldn't be out of bracket before I was in. I also had the experience of being run a merry chase by a 65 year old before I turned 35, albeit in a less fit period of my life (the one that started  age 30 and hasn't really gone away)

Mike

[mattc]

For you Jantastics, this lady was mentioned on marathontalk. This is her response on FB:


Kim Love-Ottobre
Yes guys, I did run 108 miles as my long run during Jantastic. This is The Wild Oak Trail in Virginia, 4 loops, 27 miles long. 8000 feet of elevation per loop. In the 21 years of the event there have been 17 finishers. This is me on Loop 4.

[Pippa]

Hello running peeps, I need some advice...

I've got to a stage where I can now run for 30 minutes 3 times a week. I've never got to this stage of running before having managed to wing it on a 5 km but then being very sore the next day, or trying walk/run like couch 2 5km and giving up before getting to the end. I have jantastic to thank for this.

Anyhow I now want to start getting "better" at running. By better, I mean faster over 5km and certainly endurance (I can run for 30mins but it certainly isn't easy, especially the last 5mins or so).

So I guess for speed it is fartleks/sprints and for making 30 mins/5km more comfortable, it's about doing longer distances? If that's the case, what should I be doing on my 3 runs per week? An interval/fartlek/sprints session, a normal 30 mins run and a longer run? Or should I just concentrate on one aspect. I'm confused.....

[Polar Bear]

On 3 runs I would suggest one long, steady run pushing to 45 mins by adding 5 mins per week.   One shorter, faster run, maybe just 15 or 20 mins but put a bit of extra in.   If you want to try fartlek then do it in this shorter session.   Keep one run to do your benchmark 30 mins /5k.   Over time the endurance from the longer run and the speed from the shorter should bring your 5k time down.

[mattc]

Pippa you don't say what your 'budget' is. Do you only have 3x30mins per week? Or do you want to run more, but you're increasing volume with caution to avoid injury?

I was advised that until you're doing 20 miles a week (for us plodders - more like 25 for average/fast runners) speed-work is purely 2ry (i.e. it won't help very much).

But this was aiming at distance running (10-13mile events. Or more). Of course if you are time-limited, have no intention of running that much, and just want to run 5km faster, then building in speed sessions makes more sense. And it's more interesting (although some people just like heading out of the door and doing a steady pace until they get back, no thought required). Bear in mind that even 5km specialists do 100 mile weeks, most of it at easy/medium effort.

So there you go - 2 approaches  (and PBear has run more marathons than me)

[L CC]

I was doing as PB suggests, one 'steady' 45 minutes, one 'fast' intervals 20-25 minutes inc warm up and one 'long' 60-90 minutes.

And I was getting faster, generally.

[mattc]

And I was getting faster, generally

... which is what happens to  every novice, for quiet a long time (until they plateau. or overtrain. or get injured... ) If you increase your total volume over time, then you improve more, and for longer before plateauing.

I'm not criticising your approach - it's very widely recommended, and I can see why it would work well - just saying that it's VERY difficult to compare the 'benefits' of various different training approaches!

[citoyen]

I've improved my 5k time significantly just by doing parkrun - running with other people as targets/pacers is great motivation.

That said, I've hit a plateau and probably won't improve any further without more structured training.

[L CC]

And I was getting faster, generally

... which is what happens to  every novice, for quiet a long time (until they plateau. or overtrain. or get injured... ) If you increase your total volume over time, then you improve more, and for longer before plateauing.

I'm not criticising your approach - it's very widely recommended, and I can see why it would work well - just saying that it's VERY difficult to compare the 'benefits' of various different training approaches!

I think you're right, from a zero start everything is an improvement!

Any old 3 runs a week would probably have had the same effect.. but by giving each run a 'purpose' or a 'training goal' I was more able to a) keep motivated and b) be less bored.

I'd never be able to go out 3 times a week on a bike doing the same old same old loop, I'd get very bored and just stop doing it- though I know many people can/do- and I couldn't do the same running, either.

[Polar Bear]

I was thinking about what Pippa actually said:

... I've got to a stage where I can now run for 30 minutes 3 times a week. ...

Anyhow I now want to start getting ... faster over 5km and certainly endurance (I can run for 30mins but it certainly isn't easy, especially the last 5mins or so).
...

The point of the shorter faster run is twofold.   Firstly, it add much-needed variety.   Secondly, the faster, shorter work helps you slowly but surely improve your core speed.   Taking longer, less-intense runs helps build endurance and core strength.   So, by having three different sessions in the you get variety (which helps relieve the mundane boredom of doing the same thing and is often the cause of people quitting), speed and strength.   

It takes time to increase speed but whilst pushing your longer run out by 5 minutes each week you suddenly find that you can run for an hour and that your 5k run is pretty routine.   
   

[Pippa]

Pippa you don't say what your 'budget' is. Do you only have 3x30mins per week? Or do you want to run more, but you're increasing volume with caution to avoid injury?

If I'm honest, I don't really *want* to do any running at all. I don't really enjoy it all that much because it is bloody hard work. If cycling felt like running I would have thrown all my bikes away a LONG time ago. Well I wouldn't have them, but you know what I mean. BUT, I do think running is doing me some good, certainly in terms of CV fitness and weight management. And now that I'm at this self-defined pivotal point of being able to do 3x30 mins per week I don't want to just give up and waste all that effort. Jantastic has been great as I'm very compliant when it comes to following "rules" and not letting the team down. But Jantastic will also end at some point. I've started doing parkruns and I think that's something I could see myself still trying to do regularly.

So....I don't want to run a marathon. But equally when I do a 2 lap parkrun, I don't want to get lapped by someone finishing before I've even done my first lap - that's just demoralising (yeah OK so he did 5k in sub 16 mins I think, and I did it in 33, but I'd like to at least finish my first lap before he's finished his 2).

I can fit in 3 runs a week without feeling like I want to give up completely (I have given up many many times in the past, I don't really know why it's different this time, but it is). I can fit in a longer run at weekends and 2 shorter runs Mon-Fri - at the moment I can fit those in around a) going to the pub and b) going cycling so they don't seem to impinge on my "lifestyle". I think any more than that and I'd miss a couple and give it all up. Simply plodding up and down the river is starting to get a bit samey. I like the idea of different runs having a different aim to prevent boredom setting in.

I think I will try PB's and boab's approach and see where it gets me. If it stops me getting bored and keeps me heading out, that's a win. If I get faster as well, that's a win-win.

[mattc]

If it stops me getting bored and keeps me heading out, that's a win. If I get faster as well, that's a win-win.

They say the best training plan is the one you actually stick to! 


I'm a massive fan of parkrun. My 10k was very satisfying, and I still dream of doing 'proper' long stuff, but for those of us still paddling in the shallow end distance-wise - and if you have one local - I think they're superb. I look forward to the Thames retreating from our local course! I definitely find that having a scheduled event makes me less likely to shirk than my own personal flexi-schedule (I'm procrastinating as I type this  )

Pippa, I sincerely hope you're not truly bothered by finishing toward the back end*.  But given that you're clearly still on an up-curve, I'm sure that 33min will continue to drop, even with just a parkrun+2midweek runs, whatever the length/intensity. It's the reward for sticking at it - I'm convinced that just doing SOME miles every week is more important than having the scientifically best training plan!


*(parkrun is the first sporting event I've ever come close to the midfield in - I expect to be soundly thrashed whenever I play sports, and am often last in time-trials (and audaxes). This is a strong indicator of how inclusive it is, and how many beginners take part. Someone has to be last, and every time I am, I save someone else from the honour.)

[citoyen]

But equally when I do a 2 lap parkrun, I don't want to get lapped by someone finishing before I've even done my first lap - that's just demoralising (yeah OK so he did 5k in sub 16 mins I think, and I did it in 33, but I'd like to at least finish my first lap before he's finished his 2).

The good news is you don't have to improve by much to achieve that goal.

And 16mins is exceptionally fast. Competitive club runner standard. So don't allow that to demoralise you, just accept it for what it is. And bear in mind how much training he probably does to be able to achieve that time. (He's still several minutes behind world record pace - imagine how demoralised he is by that!)

[Pippa]

Pippa, I sincerely hope you're not truly bothered by finishing toward the back end*. 

I don't go home and cry about, no 

Frankly, if I can get to running 5k in less than 30 mins, I will feel like a running goddess. That's enough for me.

[L CC]

But equally when I do a 2 lap parkrun, I don't want to get lapped by someone finishing before I've even done my first lap - that's just demoralising (yeah OK so he did 5k in sub 16 mins I think, and I did it in 33, but I'd like to at least finish my first lap before he's finished his 2).

I only got lapped the first time. 'Not being lapped' is really quite a strong motivator... But our fast guys are slower than yours, I think. I only need a 16 minute first lap, not a 15 minute one. That minute is quite a lot!

Frankly, if I can get to running 5k in less than 30 mins, I will feel like a running goddess. 

Me too.
That, and I want to run The Great Ingram Fell Race not embarrassingly badly/slowly. (I might even get the cup- no one from Ingram has run it for years.)

[Greenbank]

First time on the treadmill where I didn't feel completely horrible at the end. It's a bit cooler in the work gym, plus I've lost a few kg which lessens the burden.

Still need a 3kg more or so to go before it becomes a less hideous prospect and I hit my magic target for doing a local Parkrun.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Shorter faster run worked for me today.  I find running traning plans difficult as I only do one run a week (maximum) (a) because of time commitments and (b) to avoid new injuries and manage an existing one. 

(click to show/hide)

I inured a tendon in my right groin playing indoor cricket and although I can funuction perfectly normally after any running style activity it needs at least 3 - 4 days of not running to heal up again.  Sports that require rapid and frequent changes of direction such as tennis, football, squash, are pretty much off the agenda, which is not a problem as I'm not any good at them

But having progressively worked up distances - 14, 16, 19, 21 miles in preparation for a marathon, dropped back down to a 12.3 mile route and started at a much less conservative pace.  Result was 30 seconds faster than the previous time over the same route.

[citoyen]

Didn't much feel like running this morning but I was mindful of today being the best opportunity to get my long run in for the week - I'd committed to 20km for this week on Jantastic.

So I JFDI. And jolly good fun it was too.

A smidge under 22km round the woods, quite boggy and slippery in places, which slowed me down a bit but I'm happy with 2:14 overall.

Even better: I got home to discover my wife had made churros for breakfast. Epic win, as the kids say.

I found out yesterday that this year's Beauty & The Beast marathon (hilly trails course) is on 13th September. Plenty of time to prepare for that. However, it's only six days after the Thanet marathon, which I've also got in my diary. Crikey. Oh well, at least Thanet is a nice flat(ish) road course.

[swiss hat]

I'll be playing a joker for this week on Jantastic. Not due to injury or illness but to taper for the Steyning Stinger offroad marathon on Sunday 2nd. Looking forward to the run, hopefully the weather will be kind to get the best of the views from the Downs.