Author Topic: Cross Training: Running (Read 435953 times)

sojournermike · « **Reply #1500 on:** 15 September, 2015, 01:17:29 am »

Quote from: αdαmsκι on 05 September, 2015, 12:46:24 pm

The audax season is almost over, so it's time to get back to the running. My ParkRun this morning was hard work (but better than a fortnight ago when I was still recovering from PBP!). I now need something to train towards to motivate me, so I'll be entering Thames Meander ½ Marathon on 7^th Nov.

I'm enjoying a bit of running again, but my target 1/2M is only about 800m;)

I quite fancy a few 'masters' track races in the spring.

MIke

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1501 on:** 17 September, 2015, 09:05:07 pm »

I'm back to running. Looking at my log book the last run I did was the Pangbourne 100% on 22nd March so quite pleased to still be walking after 4.5 miles around Copenhagen in 33 mins. Need to pick up the distances each weak so that can run to Gempen from Basel (fantastic route through the woods at night that feels like you are in the middle of nowhere) when I am there in mid-October. Trying to think of a target to aim for but may just enjoying cross-country running through the autumn in my local neck of the woods.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1502 on:** 08 October, 2015, 10:32:15 pm »

International cross country run today. Ran from the Stucki Hotel along the river and then up into the hills near Sankt Chrischrona and across the border into Germany to the nearest road and back again. Was fun entering the EU from a non-EU country without anyone knowing, just a small sign by the track to show you were crossing the border. 11.7 miles round trip, so have managed to pick up the distances quickly after a 6 months absence from the trail shoes.

zigzag · « **Reply #1503 on:** 11 October, 2015, 03:14:15 pm »

i have received a "declined entry to london marathon" email last week, so nothing to aim for

. might just stick to cycling - there are so many exciting events to choose from next year!

αdαmsκι · « **Reply #1504 on:** 11 October, 2015, 03:43:41 pm »

Quote from: zigzag on 11 October, 2015, 03:14:15 pm

i have received a "declined entry to london marathon" email last week, so nothing to aim for . might just stick to cycling - there are so many exciting events to choose from next year!

Did you also get the magazine with a photo of Spiderman doing his sub 2h30 marathon?

Quote from: αdαmsκι on 22 April, 2015, 09:43:53 pm

Paul Martelletti, who lives near me and has done my local ParkRun, won Manchester Marathon last Sunday with 2h17. He's now going for a sub 2h30 London Marathon, but dressed as spiderman. Success will be a pointless world record, and any money raised (after paying Guinness fees for the record....) will go to Parkinson's UK. Details here: http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/spidermanworldrecord

αdαmsκι · « **Reply #1505 on:** 11 October, 2015, 07:27:04 pm »

1:31 in October seems like a decent effort. Certainly better than I'd be capable of doing at the moment. What's the target for VLM? I wont be around for the London 2016. Hopefully I can enter the Championship start and then defer until 2017.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1506 on:** 08 November, 2015, 02:28:19 pm »

The presence of a proper runner (1:18 half marathon 2:45 marathon) in one of my teams has spurred me to take running a bit more seriously, so extended the weekly run last week to a Selsey - Pagham Harbour and back epic on salt marsh, shingle and various other interesting surfaces half marathon. Today it was back to a familiar route to Five Lanes End Hay Down and Tunworth extended with a short out and back section to make it up to the half marathon. Dead chuffed to be going as quickly on this terrain as I was two years ago despite slightly tacky conditions underfoot after yesterday's deluge. Last 3 miles back from Polecat Corner were done in 20 minutes which shows that you do get some benefit from slightly downhill and tailwind when running, if not as much as when cycling. Might have to think about entering an event in the early spring.

zigzag · « **Reply #1507 on:** 28 November, 2015, 11:58:04 am »

i've got a reminder that i should be easing into running gradually and slowly.
i decided to start running again over the winter and after two year break went out for a local 6.3km loop - felt good, muscles were aching pleasantly. after one day's rest rest i did another run (same loop). the pace was lower and i started to feel the aching ligaments, both in the knees and feet/ankles. as the pain was not severe, i thought it will go away once i do more runs. a day later i went out for a third run and my knees and feet started aching so bad that i limped back home from half way through.
now, ten days later i can still barely walk, going down/up the stairs holding onto the railing with both hands. today my knees are starting to feel better, but i'm still limping and might need another couple of weeks before my next morning run - i'll start from 2km now and gradually increase the distance (boring but sensible).

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1508 on:** 28 November, 2015, 06:08:45 pm »

Quote from: zigzag on 28 November, 2015, 11:58:04 am

i've got a reminder that i should be easing into running gradually and slowly.
i decided to start running again over the winter and after two year break went out for a local 6.3km loop - felt good, muscles were aching pleasantly. after one day's rest rest i did another run (same loop). the pace was lower and i started to feel the aching ligaments, both in the knees and feet/ankles. as the pain was not severe, i thought it will go away once i do more runs. a day later i went out for a third run and my knees and feet started aching so bad that i limped back home from half way through.
now, ten days later i can still barely walk, going down/up the stairs holding onto the railing with both hands. today my knees are starting to feel better, but i'm still limping and might need another couple of weeks before my next morning run - i'll start from 2km now and gradually increase the distance (boring but sensible).

I always rest at least 4 days between runs. Running jars everything up. Us cyclists tend to have mighty strong engine-room muscles (quads, hamstrings) but those muscles and ligaments that you require to run in a straight line are nowhere near as developed - so we have a much higher risk of injury. Hence the need to rest. Running magazines assume you mainly run - and so they encourage people to run 4 times a week to build up leg strength and aerobic fitness, but we get most of that impact-free on the bike.

At least it seems to be working for me. Ran my 6.7 mile mostly cross-country route today five minutes quicker than the same route two months ago (although that was in the dark) and legs are feeling good.

I do also have a very disciplined 20 minute stretching routine after the run (in contrast to the limited stretching I do after a cycling event).

αdαmsκι · « **Reply #1509 on:** 05 December, 2015, 06:01:19 pm »

I've decided I want to get my ParkRun time back under 18 minutes by 9th January, after which date I'll hardly be running. In way of training I've started taking the longer routes home from work that I know rather than the shortest route, which is only 3 km. I've also had to slowly increase the distance again, but am now back up to 15 km without feeling any tweaks.

mattc · « **Reply #1510 on:** 07 December, 2015, 12:47:56 pm »

Quote from: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 November, 2015, 06:08:45 pm

I always rest at least 4 days between runs. Running jars everything up. Us cyclists tend to have mighty strong engine-room muscles (quads, hamstrings) but those muscles and ligaments that you require to run in a straight line are nowhere near as developed - so we have a much higher risk of injury. Hence the need to rest. Running magazines assume you mainly run - and so they encourage people to run 4 times a week to build up leg strength and aerobic fitness, but we get most of that impact-free on the bike.

I've been thinking about how to avoid running injuries, and considering something like your approach; but I'm not totally sold on your logic

OK, so the support muscles are weak - compared to the cycling "engine room" muscles. So surely the answer is to strengthen them. Which is the same requirement that a runner (who ISNT cycling lots) has. Isn't it?

(and that is presumably what the little-n-often, mixture of long/short/fast/slow schedules that are commonly promoted - with variations - should achive. In theory ... )

Discuss!

sojournermike · « **Reply #1511 on:** 07 December, 2015, 08:58:26 pm »

Key differences for cyclists are:

1. Tend to have better than average aerobic capacity and endurance, so they can do more running than an untrained person
2. Cycling only can lead to muscle strength imbalances for running and bone mass loss

These both are indicators/causes of high injury risk. The good Dr Ferrari recommends that cyclist run twice a week in winter to build and preserve bone density and muscular balance, but cautions that they should be careful how they go about it.

I'm out running again, not least as a friend wants a pacer for a 7 minute mile Coniston 14 in March. Mixing up both sports creates some interesting training challenges as well as opportunities, which I am still learning about by trial and error.

Advice gratefully received, as long as it doesn't suggest adding swimming to the mix. Remember I was a runner first and competitively and a cyclist later with no aim to compete at all.

Mik

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1512 on:** 10 December, 2015, 02:20:08 pm »

Quote from: Oranj on 07 December, 2015, 08:50:55 pm

If you need to take a 4-day break from it after every run, do you not think you might be going a bit hard?

No. Even if I go for a two mile jog, I'd still avoid running for the next few days. I suspect that if I keep up the running, year round, then I might condition things to be able to run more frequently. All I can say is, it works for me. Last year I was able to complete the Dorset Coast Ultra (46 miles 11000 feet ascent) in a good time, without injury, and be the first parent (and second adult after a PE teacher) on my son's school's crosscountry run (the 46 miles wasn't good prep for a spring finish).

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1513 on:** 13 December, 2015, 10:24:24 am »

Tour of Medmerry today, about 6.7 miles in 56 minutes, off my usual pace, but that's because a couple of miles were done on sand/shingle. Ran round the new sea defences between Selsey and Bracklesham and then back along the coast, ignoring all the danger deep currents signs, reckoning that 90 minutes after low tide the outflow from the salt marsh would be balanced by the incoming tide and not too deep. My reckoning was spot on, nothing over knee deep and no current, so saved myself a much longer return run, and had the pleasure of some proper wild country running.

ElyDave · « **Reply #1514 on:** 13 December, 2015, 02:29:07 pm »

Sound good CET.

Got out on Friday for about 11km, mixed on and offroad. Heavy clay around here so very slippy underfoot in places.

As an aside, has anyone on here dealt with bone spurs on the toe joints?
Diagnosed last week, not worth operating on a risk basis, but being suggested orthotics. Not sure whether i'll need to cut back on running or at least stop doing the ultras.

αdαmsκι · « **Reply #1515 on:** 13 December, 2015, 04:43:26 pm »

Quote from: αdαmsκι on 05 December, 2015, 06:01:19 pm

I've decided I want to get my ParkRun time back under 18 minutes by 9th January

Whoop! I managed that yesterday despite having the Christmas Party on Friday night and realizing at 1.30 am on Saturday morning that the Head of Year 9 had convinced me to go to Belushi's

.

Quote from: ElyDave on 13 December, 2015, 02:29:07 pm

As an aside, has anyone on here dealt with bone spurs on the toe joints?
Diagnosed last week, not worth operating on a risk basis, but being suggested orthotics. Not sure whether i'll need to cut back on running or at least stop doing the ultras.

No idea, but running seems unlikely to help....

SteveC · « **Reply #1516 on:** 13 December, 2015, 05:53:32 pm »

Quote from: αdαmsκι on 13 December, 2015, 04:43:26 pm

Quote from: αdαmsκι on 05 December, 2015, 06:01:19 pm
I've decided I want to get my ParkRun time back under 18 minutes by 9th January

Whoop! I managed that yesterday despite having the Christmas Party on Friday night and realizing at 1.30 am on Saturday morning that the Head of Year 9 had convinced me to go to Belushi's .

No-one managed that at our Parkrun yesterday. First place was just over 20 minutes.
It is all, bar 100m, or so on grass and was just a touch slippery.

mattc · « **Reply #1517 on:** 13 December, 2015, 06:03:51 pm »

Quote from: Oranj on 13 December, 2015, 04:24:00 pm

ElyDave: not bone spurs, but AFAIK I broke a middle toe in August 2014 which I didn't bother getting fixed, I just taped it to the next toe along. It still gives me gyp from time to time but I found these to be very useful in absorbing shock: Gel Toe Cap. I have also switched to Hoka One One shoes for most of my road work, they are a bit of a weird thing to run in the first time but soak up the pummelling from tarmac nicely.

There seem to be umpteen "one One" flavours!

ElyDave · « **Reply #1518 on:** 13 December, 2015, 09:18:00 pm »

Quote from: Oranj on 13 December, 2015, 04:24:00 pm

ElyDave: not bone spurs, but AFAIK I broke a middle toe in August 2014 which I didn't bother getting fixed, I just taped it to the next toe along. It still gives me gyp from time to time but I found these to be very useful in absorbing shock: Gel Toe Cap. I have also switched to Hoka One One shoes for most of my road work, they are a bit of a weird thing to run in the first time but soak up the pummelling from tarmac nicely.

I've seen those things, and I must admit i don't think they're for me.

I switched to the minimalist shoes about 5-6 years ago and have been getting on well with those ever since. Need to be a bit more careful with the calves and achilles but, toe thing apart, I've been able to run much further, much better. Not sure if the mid foot landing will have aggravated the toe or not.

Are you still erging by the way?

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1519 on:** 16 December, 2015, 04:48:24 pm »

Quote from: Oranj on 13 December, 2015, 09:15:08 pm

Quote from: mattc on 13 December, 2015, 06:03:51 pm
There seem to be umpteen "one One" flavours!

Yeah, pretty confusing. The Ultramarathon Store has good explanation of what they're all like. I've got a few pairs on the go at the moment, from the racer-like Clifton to the sturdy trainer-like Rapa Nui and Stinson. The Clifton in particular is an amazingly light/cushioned shoe which nevertheless has a bit of resilience in the midsole and very little heel drop, something I could never have dreamed existed 10 or 15 years ago. I've worn out a pair in only 550km though. On the plus side, I'm fairly comfortable running 90-100km a week in the more trainer-like models.

Thanks for sharing the link - but found the usual depressing news - not a lot of choice for EU foot size 48 and narrow heels. Am I just unusual in being a big-footed runner (i must admit to having felt like Gulliver in Lilliput in one or two events) or is there a specialist retailer out there that hoovers up all the big size running shoes. I've found buying shoes to be a total compromise. Go to specialist shop and rather than pick style just "go and find what you've got in my size and see if it fits" approach. If I can find something that doesn't compress my arthritic toes or feels like I've strapped a couple of rowing boats to my feet then I'm delighted.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete · « **Reply #1520 on:** 23 December, 2015, 04:40:27 pm »

CC Basingstoke v Overton Harriers annual cyclists vs runners cross-country run on Sunday. Was 90 seconds slower than 3 years ago, which I put down to being 3kg heavier. Also it was muddier than in previous attempts but it is difficult to assess the impact of lack of traction on speed.

ElyDave · « **Reply #1521 on:** 01 January, 2016, 01:10:56 pm »

New Year's Eve 10k yesterday, through my village so no excuse really.

I was in two minds whether to run or not having been suffering with a nasty case of shin splints for a few months, rested from running for the last two weeks but gave it a go anyway, with no particular ambition.

Went off way too fast, knowing I was gooing to suffer later, but also trying to take most advantage of the tailwind at the start.

Turned into the wind and felt like I was going backwards. Didn't feel like I had much left at the end, but managed the last km in 4:07. Overall 45:43, 2min slower than PB, but still 146th overall, 19th age group.

mattc · « **Reply #1522 on:** 01 January, 2016, 07:22:35 pm »

Boxing Day (belated) parkRun report:

Pretty steady plod round in slightly muddy conditions for me. First hardish/longish run since my recent injuries, so all good.

More importantly I coerced N into doing her first. She's been running on her own since age 15, so her first group/organised/crowd thing was a bit of a shock! She went pretty much backwards in the 100m dash to the first tight corner. But then ....

beat me by over a minute, 2nd fastest W. Quite a nice intro to organised sport

v v v v chuffed for her.
(this despite "losing at least 3 seconds in one mega-slide"

)

ElyDave · « **Reply #1523 on:** 17 January, 2016, 04:11:12 pm »

Excellent, well done.

Great time for that distance.

Hammerman · « **Reply #1524 on:** 18 January, 2016, 01:40:11 pm »

Recently started running as a mode of cross training. Never been the sporty type, only took up cycling 6 years ago. Can't believe it but I'm actually enjoying it. Been running for approx 3 months and always take my dog. I ran my first Parkrun in december, was hoping to get sub 30, managed sub 27, well happy.I'd rather trails than road and I've set myself a challenge of running the entire Pembrokeshire coast path, section by section, I managed my lngest run to date on saturday by compleating the section from Manorbier to Bosherston at 16km's. I'd like to finish it before my 52nd birthday in July, but I reckon it might be pushing it a bit.