Bryan Chapman Memorial 2020

[Manotea]

The old (i.e. 2+ years ago?) BCM routesheet was very clear at the Aberhafesp bit. I think.

And the Bwlch control [BC400] is actually ON the A40, isn't it??

I think Manotea may have ridden too many events ...

Well, it's at least five years since I rode the BCM ("Finally, Manotea has come back," etc.) so things may have changed but the sentiments stand. Consider it a well honed axe...

As I said, stronger riders like yourself might not understand the problem. The Bwlch control may or may not (nominally) be on the A40, but assuming it's the same one, it's rather dark and well set back from the road. Both times I've ridden the event it took me some effort to locate, and last time out at least, I wasn't alone. Ultimately we tracked it down by following the directions of riders leaving the control.

When it's stupid o'clock in the morning you can do without that sort of thing.

Edit: FWIW I could always find the night time control on the Dean/7Across because the Orgs had thoughtfully placed a massive aerial on top with a light that could be seen for miles. That's the way to do it! Though the 7Across - now LWL - control has now moved to Lambourn. Will I find it? The nation waits....

[cyclinggeezer]

It appears from what I have read the odd individual has made some weird navigational errors in previous years.

First time I rode the BCM I spent half an hour looking for this control. How I laughed when I eventually found it.

See also the control at Bulch on the Brevet Cymru. Both examples of Controls off/set back from the main route.

I don't think it applies so much nowadays as it's more recognised there are more new riders taking part, but go back a while and the attitude was very much that there was no need to signpost controls because, 'everybody knew where they were' and providing any route guidence beyond a basic routesheet was to be abhored as 'spoonfeeding'.

Whilst the beginning and the end sections seem straight forward I realised when plotting the gpx tracks the figure of eight route from Kings could if you blindly followed  the track lead you into the wrong direction if one long track. I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me. Hence my splitting of tracks in 8. Also looking at Google street view to be vaguely familiar with where the controls are.

Perhaps an over reaction to lack of familiarity but the I know that feeling when you cannot find the control.





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[Hot Flatus]

The old (i.e. 2+ years ago?) BCM routesheet was very clear at the Aberhafesp bit. I think.

And the Bwlch control [BC400] is actually ON the A40, isn't it??

I think Manotea may have ridden too many events ...

Well, it's at least five years since I rode the BCM ("Finally, Manotea has come back," etc.) so things may have changed but the sentiments stand. Consider it a well honed axe...

As I said, stronger riders like yourself might not understand the problem. The Bwlch control may or may not (nominally) be on the A40, but assuming it's the same one, it's rather dark and well set back from the road. Both times I've ridden the event it took me some effort to locate, and last time out at least, I wasn't alone. Ultimately we tracked it down by following the directions of riders leaving the control.

When it's stupid o'clock in the morning you can do without that sort of thing.

It's easy to locate. Just listen out for all the farting as audaxers are  remounting.

[Wycombewheeler]

The old (i.e. 2+ years ago?) BCM routesheet was very clear at the Aberhafesp bit. I think.

And the Bwlch control [BC400] is actually ON the A40, isn't it??

I think Manotea may have ridden too many events ...

Either the bwlch  control is no more or I am likely to miss it on Saturday. Is the a precursor to or alias for the llangatock control?

[Graeme]

BCM was difficult but doable for me last time. I thought I'd up the challenge by brining a few extra belly kilogrammes this time.

Honestly I'm excited / aaaargh about this year's.

Evening meal and drinks at that pub on the eastern bank of the Severn? In Aust I think. Is it the Boars Head?

[mattc]

As I said, stronger riders like yourself might not understand the problem.

Aha - flattery will get you everywhere!

The Bwlch control may or may not (nominally) be on the A40, but assuming it's the same one, it's rather dark and well set back from the road. Both times I've ridden the event it took me some effort to locate, and last time out at least, I wasn't alone. Ultimately we tracked it down by following the directions of riders leaving the control.

When it's stupid o'clock in the morning you can do without that sort of thing.

Don't worry, dear chap, I do sympathise. These things are always subjective; I *personally* don't recall a problem at Bwlch, but I will admit it doesn't exactly leap out at you, with a neon sign, and if you say you (and others) had trouble, I'm not going to dispute it!

I have certainly had my own mini-addlestrops on arrival at dark-o'clock controls with imperfect directions. One's cortexes are not always at 100% in some of those instances. If you want a laugh, I'll send you my GPX log from the Belgian 1000. Lovely canal-paths - not very well-lit signage ...

Edit: FWIW I could always find the night time control on the Dean/7Across because the Orgs had thoughtfully placed a massive aerial on top with a light that could be seen for miles. That's the way to do it! Though the 7Across - now LWL - control has now moved to Lambourn. Will I find it? The nation waits....

"NIGHT" control ??

[Wycombewheeler]

"NIGHT" control ??

after sunset = night

[Zed43]

So a bit later than expected, but I put my GPX for Bryan Chapman 2018 on dropbox.

It's basically a mashup of various tracks I found on ridegps, split into separate tracks for each stage (makes navigation easier, when the track ends you should have the control in your sights). I've also included a few alternative tracks like taking NCR 8 instead of the B4518 out of LLanidloes, the 2017 version of using the A487 to LLandrindod and last but not least a variant for the last stage over Gospel Pass (which, according to Basecamp, is about 8km longer and has 300m more climbing than the regular route).

[vorsprung]

The old (i.e. 2+ years ago?) BCM routesheet was very clear at the Aberhafesp bit. I think.

And the Bwlch control [BC400] is actually ON the A40, isn't it??

I think Manotea may have ridden too many events ...

Either the bwlch  control is no more or I am likely to miss it on Saturday. Is the a precursor to or alias for the llangatock control?

This Saturday if you are riding go to Llangatock

but NB this isn't the BCM

[vorsprung]

As I said, stronger riders like yourself might not understand the problem.

Aha - flattery will get you everywhere!

I am feeling fat this year and not making the PBs on Strava so will probably be on the same schedule as Manotea and mattc

[Ajax Bay]

The old (i.e. 2+ years ago?) BCM routesheet was very clear at the Aberhafesp bit. I think.
And the Bwlch control [BC400] is actually ON the A40, isn't it??
I think Manotea may have ridden too many events ...

Well, it's at least five years since I rode the BCM ("Finally, Manotea has come back," etc.) so things may have changed but the sentiments stand. Consider it a well honed axe...
. . . The Bwlch control may or may not (nominally) be on the A40, but assuming it's the same one, it's rather dark and well set back from the road. Both times I've ridden the event it took me some effort to locate, and last time out at least, I wasn't alone.

If you wish to check how excellent the directions to Aberhafesp were in 2015, look at the event website:
https://chepstowaukevent.weebly.com/detailed-notes-and-route.html
as Ritchie has kept them for the historical record. Perhaps he improved them for 2015 as a result of your trials and tribulations.
As far as the Bwlch control is concerned, as used in the past (and used last year on the 'not the Brevet Cymru' BCM Warm Up) the Bwlch village hall is right by the B road / A40 junction and is set back from the A40 one's cycling along - about 10 metres. They clearly learnt from your experience because last year at midnight-ish, all the lights were on in welcome.
On the Brevet Cymru, late on this Saturday (or early Sunday) the hall at Bwlch will be dark and a rider cycling past is 'off route' as they head for Llangattock Community Centre (which is far more difficult to find, btw) set in the middle of a housing estate. Staying on the A40 and going via Crickhowell is about a mile further than taking the turn through Llanginydr, with the climb up into Bwlch a bonus.

[Greenbank]

Whilst the beginning and the end sections seem straight forward I realised when plotting the gpx tracks the figure of eight route from Kings could if you blindly followed  the track lead you into the wrong direction if one long track. I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me. Hence my splitting of tracks in 8. Also looking at Google street view to be vaguely familiar with where the controls are.

As you say, a single big track can lead to tired mistakes choosing the wrong branch if the route overlaps at all. On BCMs of old (and possibly still now, not sure) it never mattered which route you took going North from Kings YH, indeed some people used to out-and-back along just one of the routes. (I've no idea if this is still possible as there may have been new controls/infos added or things moved around.)

I personally dislike splitting a ride in to one track per control as it just increases the chance of messing something up (not uploading one section, etc) and the faff at each and every control. If I forget to use the downtime at the control to sort out the GPS for the next section then I'm left faffing with the GPS as others are ready to leave.

For the BCM I think I split it into two with the break at Menai. I just had to remember which way to go after leaving Kings YH as there's a bit of shared road for the inbound and outbound. (But then I was using a yellow eTrex H when I did the BCM with a point at every routesheet instruction.)

Perhaps an over reaction to lack of familiarity but the I know that feeling when you cannot find the control.

This is the main reason why I always plot my own routes from the routesheet, using OS maps (streetmap.co.uk) and Google Streetview. It's still not perfect (plenty of stuff has changed since the last Streetview pictures were taken, and things can look a lot different in the dark) but relying on a downloaded GPS track alone is going to increase your chances of struggling to find unfamiliar things in the dark.

[Somnolent]

On BCMs of old (and possibly still now, not sure) it never mattered which route you took going North from Kings YH, indeed some people used to out-and-back along just one of the routes. (I've no idea if this is still possible as there may have been new controls/infos added or things moved around.)

An info control at Pen-y-Pass has removed the possibility of out-and-back on the top section.   
But in any case the route out through Barmouth and Harlech and then over the Llanberis Pass is just so much more attractive than the alternative.   

[Ajax Bay]

Whilst the beginning and the end sections seem straight forward I realised when plotting the gpx tracks the figure of eight route from Kings could if you blindly followed  the track lead you into the wrong direction if one long track. I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me. Hence my splitting of tracks in 8. Also looking at Google street view to be vaguely familiar with where the controls are.

For the BCM I think I split it into two with the break at Menai. I just had to remember which way to go after leaving Kings YH as there's a bit of shared road for the inbound and outbound. (But then I was using a yellow eTrex H when I did the BCM with a point at every routesheet instruction.)

I must confess to surprise that riders (relying solely on their GPS) are so unaware of the route they're riding that (for example) at the turn out onto the main road from King's, whether afternoon, or the second time in the early morning, they need a prompt as to which way to turn. Is (the inferred) reliance on the little device on their bars a healthy way to ride long distance? How will such riders ever develop/improve their navigational expertise? Maybe they think that with assured electronic assistance, such skill and practice are not needed in the modern era.
"I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me." ! And they never will unless a map is consulted, either in preparation or on the ride. I think they are missing out on the exploration aspect of long distance cycling.

[Manotea]

Whilst the beginning and the end sections seem straight forward I realised when plotting the gpx tracks the figure of eight route from Kings could if you blindly followed  the track lead you into the wrong direction if one long track. I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me. Hence my splitting of tracks in 8. Also looking at Google street view to be vaguely familiar with where the controls are.

For the BCM I think I split it into two with the break at Menai. I just had to remember which way to go after leaving Kings YH as there's a bit of shared road for the inbound and outbound. (But then I was using a yellow eTrex H when I did the BCM with a point at every routesheet instruction.)

I must confess to surprise that riders (relying solely on their GPS) are so unaware of the route they're riding that (for example) at the turn out onto the main road from King's, whether afternoon, or the second time in the early morning, they need a prompt as to which way to turn. Is (the inferred) reliance on the little device on their bars a healthy way to ride long distance? How will such riders ever develop/improve their navigational expertise? Maybe they think that with assured electronic assistance, such skill and practice are not needed in the modern era.
"I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me." ! And they never will unless a map is consulted, either in preparation or on the ride. I think they are missing out on the exploration aspect of long distance cycling.

With street view et al there are plenty of tools available to help the diligent locate controls exactly before the event. Yet it's amazingly easy to be gulled into thinking navigatation for an event will be easier than it is (ref: comments upthread and discussions of PBP passim which include declarations that, "there is no need to use a GPS or even look at a routesheet" For some, maybe).

So yes, it's down to riders to do their own research* but even then, what seems blindingly obvious when reviewing routes at home can seem rather different on the road. 

*Mine for the BCM includes train options for getting home if I'm forced to pack.  There are not that many stations let alone trains...

[Whitedown Man]

Some of the “in my day” posts on this and other (e.g. carbon - huh, modern rubbish to be abhorred) threads make for pretty depressing reading in respect of a national association. Still, I guess if we’re happy for the average AUK age to rise towards 60 then there’s no problem in pretending it’s still 1973.

[Hot Flatus]

Not as bad as the letter in the previous Arrivée from a Mr J Churton complaining about newer riders ( ie. anybody under 60) and their bikes 

I've been steering some of the younger (late 20s ) riders from my club towards audaxes and they love them. They are now members and receive Arrivée and several of them were astounded at the editorial decision to publish that letter, telling me that it would really put them off if they were considering joining. Frankly, I agree with them.

[whosatthewheel]

Not as bad as the letter in the previous Arrivée from a Mr J Churton complaining about newer riders ( ie. anybody under 60) and their bikes 

I've been steering some of the younger (late 20s ) riders from my club towards audaxes and they love them. They are now members and receive Arrivée and several of them were astounded at the editorial decision to publish that letter, telling me that it would really put them off if they were considering joining. Frankly, I agree with them.

Did you read the advice given by a mechanic at LEL on this forum? We should be riding with downtube shifters... 
Don't get me wrong, I like downtube shifters on my 1981 Sannino Super Record, but would I, in 2018, buy (or better spec, because we are talking custom builds) a bike with DT shifters? 

[grams]

I must confess to surprise that riders (relying solely on their GPS) are so unaware of the route they're riding that (for example) at the turn out onto the main road from King's, whether afternoon, or the second time in the early morning, they need a prompt as to which way to turn. Is (the inferred) reliance on the little device on their bars a healthy way to ride long distance?

If this information can't easily be ascertained from their device, it's an indictment of the device itself (or possibly the rider's knowledge of it), not of the concept of navigating with one.

(I'm not convinced navigating by routesheet gives you any more awareness of where you actually are, if that's the suggested alternative)

[Hot Flatus]

I've done several audaxes without a clue as to where I am located in the universe.

If you are anywhere near Retford that's probably a good thing.

[iddu]

The old (i.e. 2+ years ago?) BCM routesheet was very clear at the Aberhafesp bit. I think.

And the Bwlch control [BC400] is actually ON the A40, isn't it??

I think Manotea may have ridden too many events ...

Well, it's at least five years since I rode the BCM ("Finally, Manotea has come back," etc.) so things may have changed but the sentiments stand. Consider it a well honed axe...

As I said, stronger riders like yourself might not understand the problem. The Bwlch control may or may not (nominally) be on the A40, but assuming it's the same one, it's rather dark and well set back from the road. Both times I've ridden the event it took me some effort to locate, and last time out at least, I wasn't alone. Ultimately we tracked it down by following the directions of riders leaving the control.

When it's stupid o'clock in the morning you can do without that sort of thing.

Edit: FWIW I could always find the night time control on the Dean/7Across because the Orgs had thoughtfully placed a massive aerial on top with a light that could be seen for miles. That's the way to do it! Though the 7Across - now LWL - control has now moved to Lambourn. Will I find it? The nation waits....

As long as the local snotty-nosed urchins little darlings don't fart about with the signage again...

[Hot Flatus]

Whilst the beginning and the end sections seem straight forward I realised when plotting the gpx tracks the figure of eight route from Kings could if you blindly followed  the track lead you into the wrong direction if one long track. I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me. Hence my splitting of tracks in 8. Also looking at Google street view to be vaguely familiar with where the controls are.

For the BCM I think I split it into two with the break at Menai. I just had to remember which way to go after leaving Kings YH as there's a bit of shared road for the inbound and outbound. (But then I was using a yellow eTrex H when I did the BCM with a point at every routesheet instruction.)

I must confess to surprise that riders (relying solely on their GPS) are so unaware of the route they're riding that (for example) at the turn out onto the main road from King's, whether afternoon, or the second time in the early morning, they need a prompt as to which way to turn. Is (the inferred) reliance on the little device on their bars a healthy way to ride long distance? How will such riders ever develop/improve their navigational expertise? Maybe they think that with assured electronic assistance, such skill and practice are not needed in the modern era.
"I know nothing of the geography of Wales so none of the places make sense to me." ! And they never will unless a map is consulted, either in preparation or on the ride. I think they are missing out on the exploration aspect of long distance cycling.

You are a fine one to talk about having a sense of direction.

I'll never forget that time you charged off, on the wrong side of the road,* facing off a stream of oncoming traffic. 


*ST 09660 42596

[Ajax Bay]

You are a fine one to talk about having a sense of direction.
I'll never forget that time you charged off, on the wrong side of the road,* facing off a stream of oncoming traffic. 
*ST 09660 42596

Were you in control of your bladder at that stage, or was it the KTM between your legs?

[Wycombewheeler]

On BCMs of old (and possibly still now, not sure) it never mattered which route you took going North from Kings YH, indeed some people used to out-and-back along just one of the routes. (I've no idea if this is still possible as there may have been new controls/infos added or things moved around.)

An info control at Pen-y-Pass has removed the possibility of out-and-back on the top section.   
But in any case the route out through Barmouth and Harlech and then over the Llanberis Pass is just so much more attractive than the alternative.

You could still do the loop in either direction or even go over pen y pass twice, obviously you couldn't do the other half of the loop as out and back.

For those who would be at Bangor at sunset it would be less convenient to move the info control from daylight to darkness by reversing the direction but not the end of the world.

[Hot Flatus]

You are a fine one to talk about having a sense of direction.
I'll never forget that time you charged off, on the wrong side of the road,* facing off a stream of oncoming traffic. 
*ST 09660 42596

Were you in control of your bladder at that stage, or was it the KTM between your legs?

It was when we had a massive queue of traffic behind us on those bends, with no chance of passing, and I suggested pulling into a drive on the right to let them pass.

You said "Good idea!" and pulled onto the right hand side but then barked orders to keep going straight on, leaving a whole row of oncoming car drivers looking utterly perplexed.

I disobeyed orders, tucked into the driveway, and watched the show...