Van Moof in trouble

[quixoticgeek]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/07/vanmoof-bike-maker-halts-sales-and-looks-for-new-capital-media/

Looks like van Moof has fallen on financial fuckupery.

This is going to be interesting for those who paid for the subscription service on their bike security... Or the otherwise proprietary internals of some of their bikes.

J

[quixoticgeek]

If the Company goes bust completely. Looks like it won't be possible to unlock bikes...

There's a work around.

https://github.com/grossartig/vanmoof-encryption-key-exporter

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

[quixoticgeek]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

J

[Beardy]

Other peoples computers are rarely the solution to the servicing of a physical product.

None electrical products are a little different, as there’s nearly always the possibility of a third party fix. And the likes of Rohloff have proved their reliability.

[Mr Larrington]

My chum Hans knows his way round the innards of a Rohloff coz I've watched him rebuild one in a motel car park. He does run a bike shop, though.

[Kim]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

Or pretty much any ebike or electronic gearing system.

[Beardy]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

Or pretty much any ebike or electronic gearing system.

There’s a bit of a difference between using a self contained proprietary bit of kit, and using a bit of kit that needs to be connected to some one else’s computer to work. At least the self contained kit it will still work until it wears out regardless of the financial health of the manufacturer.

[Kim]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

Or pretty much any ebike or electronic gearing system.

There’s a bit of a difference between using a self contained proprietary bit of kit, and using a bit of kit that needs to be connected to some one else’s computer to work. At least the self contained kit it will still work until it wears out regardless of the financial health of the manufacturer.

(click to show/hide)

Fair point, though I can well imagine some marketing genius deciding to program ebike systems to refuse to work when they haven't seen the dealer's computer since the last last 1500 mile^[1] service.

Spoiler tags so as not to give them ideas...



_{[1] Number inspired by the frequency with which my bike computer pops up a harmless spanner icon, which is always either far too long or far too short, depending on what conditions I've been riding in.}

[D.A.L.E.]

(click to show/hide)

Fair point, though I can well imagine some marketing genius deciding to program ebike systems to refuse to work when they haven't seen the dealer's computer since the last last 1500 mile service.

Spoiler tags so as not to give them ideas...

The Big Red S, obviously, does something similar already.

It's not just electronicals though, we have a 10 grand Cervelo just sitting in the workshop because of a weird little proprietary part that's died. Cervelo don't have stock of it, so we're just waiting for them to get it in. It's been best part of 3 months.

[hubner]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/07/vanmoof-bike-maker-halts-sales-and-looks-for-new-capital-media/

VanMoof has not made a profit since it was founded (in 2009) and posted a loss of €80 million, in line with 2021.

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/vanmoof-e-bike-sales-still-paused-amid-rumours-it-needs-to-raise-cash-4669

In September 2021, VanMoof titled itself “the most funded e-bike company in the world” after securing $182m (£132m) in investment from Tans, Hillhouse Investment, Norwest Venture Partners, Felix Capital, Balderton Capital and TriplePoint Capital.

https://techcrunch.com/2023/07/10/vanmoof-the-e-bike-darling-skids-off-track-sales-paused-execs-depart/

[Kim]

Sounds like a bad case of Finance.

[quixoticgeek]

Sounds like a bad case of Finance.

I was gonna suggest a severe case of tech bros ...

J

[grams]

For Di2 at least the only obvious dependency on the manufacturer is the iPhone app, but as long as you can run the Windows app in a VM and/or are happy with the default config it’ll run for as long as you can get hold of compatible parts, same as any groupset.

VanMoof titled itself “the most funded e-bike company in the world”

Isn’t this like bragging you’ve run up a world record amount of credit card debt?

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Even mechanical things can get hard to find parts for.  The long cage Campag rear mech for by 2004 Roberts was hunted down in Ebay from Canada, when it arrived it was Romanian boxed stock.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

J

I think Rohloff is slightly different, for two reasons. First, if your Rohloff breaks in a post-Rohloff future, it's a mechanical object and someone can forge, cast, mill, etc, the necessary parts (though possibly at a prohibitive price). Second, more important, you can replace your Rohloff with any other hub gear or possibly derailleurs. Whereas Pinion, and it seems also Van Moof, the whole bike becomes unuseable -- the whole bike, frame and all, is built around that part.

[Mr Larrington]

When my chum Mr Knight b0rked his Rohloff they told him to post it back to the factory.  Six days later he had a brand new! IMPROVED!!1! hub built into a brand new wheel arrive on his doorstep.  Of course that was before Brexit.  And Mr Knight now lives in New Toyland Zealand rather than Newbury.

[grams]

A rival company lets you backup your VanMoof digital key, whatever that achieves…
https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/cowboy-keep-vanmoof-e-bikes-on-road

[mzjo]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

J

I think Rohloff is slightly different, for two reasons. First, if your Rohloff breaks in a post-Rohloff future, it's a mechanical object and someone can forge, cast, mill, etc, the necessary parts (though possibly at a prohibitive price). Second, more important, you can replace your Rohloff with any other hub gear or possibly derailleurs. Whereas Pinion, and it seems also Van Moof, the whole bike becomes unuseable -- the whole bike, frame and all, is built around that part.

Except that manufacturers like Shimano apparently have the habit of destroying tooling for making parts when they decide said parts are obsolete (and presumably also destroying the drawings for said tooling). Thus making impossible the revival of various useful bits (like ratchetting friction shifters to name but one - although that was SunTour). I believe it's called protecting your IP and it gives people like VO who have customers for this obsolete stuff an additional problem in remanufacturing. Replacing a broken bit depends  on having an unbroken sample to copy in some cases. (Less simple than it would appear in some cases).

[quixoticgeek]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/07/dutch-bicycle-maker-vanmoof-goes-bust-curators-look-at-restart/

They've gone bust completely now.

J

[chrisbainbridge]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/07/dutch-bicycle-maker-vanmoof-goes-bust-curators-look-at-restart/

They've gone bust completely now.

J

Do they just need a few more volts to restart or is it in Frankenstein territory?

[geraldc]

I liked Van Moof. They had a fancy shop in Covent Garden pre COVID, and they were originally non motorised bikes on the swapfiets model, ie you just ride it and they'll maintain it, but super expensive.

I went off them after I saw a load of them that had plywood luggage carriers, and all the wood had blown and gone mouldy at the screwholes

[PhilO]

I would never have bought a Van Moof anyway cos I think they're ugly (your aesthetics might vary). But it's another reminder not to tie yourself into something which can only be serviced or repaired by one firm. I have similar feelings about the Pinion gearbox.

See also rohloff...

J

I think Rohloff is slightly different, for two reasons. First, if your Rohloff breaks in a post-Rohloff future, it's a mechanical object and someone can forge, cast, mill, etc, the necessary parts (though possibly at a prohibitive price). Second, more important, you can replace your Rohloff with any other hub gear or possibly derailleurs. Whereas Pinion, and it seems also Van Moof, the whole bike becomes unuseable -- the whole bike, frame and all, is built around that part.

Not quite true - one consideration when I bought mine was that if the worst came to the worst I could get a dummy g'box made with a standard BB housing built into it.  Although given that the 'box represents the majority of the frame value, I doubt if I'd bother.  In fact, after 8 years' use on an MTB I reckon it's saved me enough in cassettes, derailleurs and (most importantly) time cleaning and maintaining the same, that it doesn't really owe me much. 

Can you tell I'm a fan? 

[rogerzilla]

Even mechanical things can get hard to find parts for.  The long cage Campag rear mech for by 2004 Roberts was hunted down in Ebay from Canada, when it arrived it was Romanian boxed stock.

Di2 10 speed is a bit of a 'mare if you break something.  At least you can keep the frame.

[De Sisti]

Even mechanical things can get hard to find parts for.  The long cage Campag rear mech for by 2004 Roberts was hunted down in Ebay from Canada, when it arrived it was Romanian boxed stock.

I managed to get hold of a couple of Long Cage Campag rear mechs (after a bit of searching).
A Shimano 9-speed XT Long Cage rear mech also works with a Campag 10 ergo lever!