I suppose it makes sure that more people are aware of their imminent doom, as this process will give everyone with a phone the 4 minute warning.I'm off to listen to "Two Tribes" now.
Cell broadcast[1] is a standard GSM feature that civilised countries implemented as a means to send emergency messages years ago, and the UK eschewed. They're now playing catch-up.
Cell broadcast[1] is a standard GSM feature that civilised countries implemented as a means to send emergency messages years ago, and the UK eschewed. They're now playing catch-up.
But if you ask them they're leading the world. As ever.
Diamond Geezer has some stuff on this today https://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/I think they have it spot on
This is a risk-based alert system based on physical danger, more likely to be triggered by experts and the emergency services than scheming ministers. And yet a lot of people seem unable to decouple their dislike of politicians from the actions of government, seeing conspiracy in everything because blinkered opinions are easier than rational thought.
A four minute warning of MP's lies would be most welcome.
The Netherlands has a similar system. If I recall, it is tested on a Wednesday every month and everyone jumps up together.
Apparently the warnings go out via the local mobile 4G or 5G cell. Since most people at home are on wi-fi, they're not going to receive any warning.???
Apparently the warnings go out via the local mobile 4G or 5G cell. Since most people at home are on wi-fi, they're not going to receive any warning.
Apparently the warnings go out via the local mobile 4G or 5G cell. Since most people at home are on wi-fi, they're not going to receive any warning.
If your phone is capable of receiving a phone call or text, you will get the emergency alert. Obviously if you have zero signal. You won't.
My biggest concern is that if people are driving when the phone goes nuts with a loud emergency alert, it's gonna distract a lot. Not to mention those using their phones as sat nav suddenly losing their guidance.
I had a poke around in my phone's emergency alert settings the other day. It has an option not to alert when you're driving. (I'm not sure how it determines that you're driving.)
I had a poke around in my phone's emergency alert settings the other day. It has an option not to alert when you're driving. (I'm not sure how it determines that you're driving.)
This brings to 2 the total number of people that know if that feature. The other is the one who implemented it... :P
I wonder if it still works if you're in airplane mode?
The CB message parameters contain the broadcasting schedule. If the start-time is left open, the CBC system will assume an immediate start, which will be the case for Public Warning messages. If the end-time is left open, the message will be repeated indefinitely. A subsequent cancel message shall be used to stop this message. The repetition rate can be set between 2 seconds and to values beyond 30 minutes. Each repeated CB message will have the same message identifier (indicating the source of the message), and the same serial number. Using this information, the mobile telephone is able to identify and ignore broadcasts of already received messages. [citation needed]
My iPhone has a couple of sliders set to “on” for “Severe Alerts” and “Extreme Alerts” :o. I can turn both off :facepalm:
Nothing about monthly tests or driving.
Witchcraft, obviously.Apparently the warnings go out via the local mobile 4G or 5G cell. Since most people at home are on wi-fi, they're not going to receive any warning.
If your phone is capable of receiving a phone call or text, you will get the emergency alert. Obviously if you have zero signal. You won't.
My biggest concern is that if people are driving when the phone goes nuts with a loud emergency alert, it's gonna distract a lot. Not to mention those using their phones as sat nav suddenly losing their guidance.
I had a poke around in my phone's emergency alert settings the other day. It has an option not to alert when you're driving. (I'm not sure how it determines that you're driving.)
What happens following a thermo nuclear strike?You will have received the emergency alert four minutes before the strike, giving you ample time to take shelter in your carefully prepared, well stocked household or workplace nuclear shelter. You sit there, snug as a bug in a rug and twice as safe, carefully monitoring food and water supplies, for 29 days or until boredom and internal disputes drive you out, whichever is the sooner. Upon emerging, you are instantly devoured by mutated pigs, giant irradiated cockroaches, and/or zombie hordes.
in a real-life emergency like Storm Arwen, all the electric will go off so the mobile phone masts won't work and no-one will get any calls or texts whatsoever.
What happens following a thermo nuclear strike?
in a real-life emergency like Storm Arwen, all the electric will go off so the mobile phone masts won't work and no-one will get any calls or texts whatsoever.
Not true, some mobile infra should be on UPS power.
in a real-life emergency like Storm Arwen, all the electric will go off so the mobile phone masts won't work and no-one will get any calls or texts whatsoever.
Not true, some mobile infra should be on UPS power.
J
in a real-life emergency like Storm Arwen, all the electric will go off so the mobile phone masts won't work and no-one will get any calls or texts whatsoever.
Not true, some mobile infra should be on UPS power.
J
Says the city dweller.
It's right and proper that services should be related to population density. Out in the wilds, we're on our own.
Not true, some mobile infra should be on UPS power.
in a real-life emergency like Storm Arwen, all the electric will go off so the mobile phone masts won't work and no-one will get any calls or texts whatsoever.
QuoteNot true, some mobile infra should be on UPS power.
I assume you were not impacted by Storm Arwen?
Our area was without electricity for a week (and some much longer)
I can assure you we had no mobile signal, no e-mails, no internet.
Only the old land line phone worked, and very poor FM radio reception on a battery radio.
Phoning powergrid and waiting for an hour or so resulted in a message to visit the website.
It was a shock to realise how reliant we have become on modern communication systems.
Sasdly, I fear the rural population will never be well served.
It's pretty easy to repair a downed power line. It's basically impossible to repair dozens of them on the same day when half the roads are blocked by trees or flooding - and you don't know which half because communications are a mess.Made worse by infrastructure that's 50 years old, so spares are no longer available to make a quick repair, and whole sections have to be rebuilt. The engineers drafted in from other regions had never seen anything like it - so much obsolete equipment. And miles of rotten wooden poles.
arrange delivery of more diesel after day nIn our case, drive 40 miles to a fuel station with diesel pumps working with a can for diesel to keep the genny going for a few hours, and take cash because the card machines won't work, and don't even think about getting money from an ATP or cash backfrom a shop - they are all shut due to the lack of power.
Once the masts are out, it's a bit late to be telling people about what's already hit themBut it could help with managing the aftermath
Rural areas are often served by large established cells on proper radio towers, with a shed that can be filled with batteries and/or diseasel gensetsI am told that the only mast that serves our area does have a back up genny. But it's up on the fell, and in bad weather no-one can get up there to start it or refil it.
in a real-life emergency like Storm Arwen, all the electric will go off so the mobile phone masts won't work and no-one will get any calls or texts whatsoever.
QuoteIt's pretty easy to repair a downed power line. It's basically impossible to repair dozens of them on the same day when half the roads are blocked by trees or flooding - and you don't know which half because communications are a mess.Made worse by infrastructure that's 50 years old, so spares are no longer available to make a quick repair, and whole sections have to be rebuilt. The engineers drafted in from other regions had never seen anything like it - so much obsolete equipment. And miles of rotten wooden poles.
On Apr 23rd, the UK government will test emergency alerts, & your phone could make a loud sound, even on silent. If you’re a domestic violence survivor & have a hidden phone, it could reveal its location. Refuge have created a guide for turning alerts off.
Interesting. Some people may need to have a hidden phone.
From twitterQuoteOn Apr 23rd, the UK government will test emergency alerts, & your phone could make a loud sound, even on silent. If you’re a domestic violence survivor & have a hidden phone, it could reveal its location. Refuge have created a guide for turning alerts off.
In Britain, the wooden poles are fixed directly into the ground. In some countries, they're mounted on short concrete bases. I don't know how effective this is but I presume the intention is to stop them rotting from the ground up.QuoteIt's pretty easy to repair a downed power line. It's basically impossible to repair dozens of them on the same day when half the roads are blocked by trees or flooding - and you don't know which half because communications are a mess.Made worse by infrastructure that's 50 years old, so spares are no longer available to make a quick repair, and whole sections have to be rebuilt. The engineers drafted in from other regions had never seen anything like it - so much obsolete equipment. And miles of rotten wooden poles.
In Britain, the wooden poles are fixed directly into the ground. In some countries, they're mounted on short concrete bases. I don't know how effective this is but I presume the intention is to stop them rotting from the ground up.QuoteIt's pretty easy to repair a downed power line. It's basically impossible to repair dozens of them on the same day when half the roads are blocked by trees or flooding - and you don't know which half because communications are a mess.Made worse by infrastructure that's 50 years old, so spares are no longer available to make a quick repair, and whole sections have to be rebuilt. The engineers drafted in from other regions had never seen anything like it - so much obsolete equipment. And miles of rotten wooden poles.
A telephone pole typically has about 30% of its total length in the groundI tell the ladies something similar.
A telephone pole typically has about 30% of its total length in the ground, so I’d expect a concrete plinth to be about half the length of the pole, unless it’s a fully stayed pole of course.
Says the city dweller.
It's right and proper that services should be related to population density. Out in the wilds, we're on our own.
QuoteNot true, some mobile infra should be on UPS power.
I assume you were not impacted by Storm Arwen?
Our area was without electricity for a week (and some much longer)
I can assure you we had no mobile signal, no e-mails, no internet.
Only the old land line phone worked, and very poor FM radio reception on a battery radio.
Phoning powergrid and waiting for an hour or so resulted in a message to visit the website.
It was a shock to realise how reliant we have become on modern communication systems.
Sasdly, I fear the rural population will never be well served.
I suspect it's trending to the other way round. Rural areas are often served by large established cells on proper radio towers, with a shed that can be filled with batteries and/or diseasel gensets (though I suspect properly redundant power is limited to those sites which are primarily for broadcast TV/radio). Whereas these days the urban ones are on tops of buildings and crammed in anywhere they can stick a suspiciously chunky lamp post without the NIMBY conspiraloons noticing.
Of course, the flip side of that is that rural areas are at the mercy of topography, and those sites last in the queueuueue for technology upgrades, particularly where the backhaul would need upgrading.
Once the masts are out, it's a bit late to be telling people about what's already hit them
I remember touring BT's emergency equipment facilities many years ago. They had a number of trailer mounted generators they could deliver to a site that was without power. Alas not enough for every site, but can get some of them up.
Building them like that any more wouldn’t enhance shareholder value.
This is a mobile network operator test of the UK Emergency Alerts service.
You do not need to take any action.
To find out more visit gov.uk/alerts
I turned them off. I might be on the job.
So who else has had one?
Nothing here, though my phone did run out of battery and switch itself off yesterday - which it doesn’t normally do.
It is going to be on St George’s Day, timed so as not to interfere with an FA Cup semi final, because a named storm would wait until both finalists were confirmed.In order to cause a stampede in both Wembley and Parliament Square (the latter helpfully crushing those awkward Extinction Rebellionists, Greenpeacers, etc).
The alert sounds like someone driving a steam locomotive through the next room,That's going to get a few YACFers excited!
The alert sounds like someone driving a steam locomotive through the next room,
That's going to get a few YACFers excited!
Just had another one:
(https://www.ductilebiscuit.net/gallery_albums/random/2023_04_06_11_36_02.sized.png)
The alert sounds like someone driving a steam locomotive through the next room, but presumably varies between platforms.
careful when sharing screen shots. You're leaking info.
careful when sharing screen shots. You're leaking info.
Fixed.
It has been tested in east Suffolk and Reading, but this is the first time the whole country will receive an alarm. Similar systems exist in other countries, including the US, Canada, the Netherlands and Japan.East Suffolk, Reading, Birmingham and a few other places, in fact. And you won't be alerted if you're still on 3G (never mind 2G).
Mobiles with a 4G or 5G signal will emit a loud siren-like sound, receive a message on their home screen and vibrate for up to 10 seconds.
The chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster, Oliver Dowden, said: “Put the date in your diaries – at 3pm on 23 April, we’ll be testing our new national emergency alerts system.The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster? Somehow this makes it sound a lot less urgent than if it came from the Minister of Internal Affairs or the National Disaster Preparedness Agency, say. As if it will involve Dutch ships sighted off the Medway or reminder to extinguish your pudding ovens before retiring at night.
"Surround Parliament" (The Big One), from 21 April 2023, is also planned for that day.That'll be interesting.
https://surroundparliament.com/
https://extinctionrebellion.uk/the-big-one/
A brawl between XR crusties and angry, ultra-fit, but also tired, marathon runners? I'd hate to work out the odds on that one.
Emergency Alerts is a UK government service that will warn you if there’s a danger to life nearby.https://www.gov.uk/alerts
In an emergency, your mobile phone or tablet will receive an alert with advice about how to stay safe.
The government does not need to know your phone number or location to send you an alert.
..
If you cannot receive emergency alerts
If you do not have a compatible device, you’ll still be informed about an emergency. The emergency services have other ways to warn you when there is a threat to life.
Emergency alerts will not replace local news, radio, television or social media.
How are people getting voice messages with American acents?
My understanding is that the message was sent via 3/4G and not SMS. Surely that's a poor choice?
Apparently Three subscribers didn't receive the alert.
Apparently Three subscribers didn't receive the alert.But the services which piggyback on Three did get it, which is odd.
Apparently Three subscribers didn't receive the alert.
Mine didn't go off because I turned it off in the settings weeks ago. F**k The Man ;DThis.
I was with a group of people at a scout camp site. It seems the different mobile networks have a different definition of 3pm. All went off at 3pm according to their phones but there was a variation between the phones of circa 2 minutes.
Sounded rather ominous on Mrs P's phone. American voice message thobut :hand:
I didn’t get one. Probably because I turned them off.This.
I was at orchestra rehearsal. We stopped just before 3 to see what would happen.
Apparently Three subscribers didn't receive the alert.
It served as a starting call for the Scouts' St George's Day parade.
How are people getting voice messages with American acents?
It started when the ringing stopped. Mrs P was in the kitchen at the time, I was in the living room where she'd left her phone and I just let it ring out.
How are people getting voice messages with American acents?
It started when the ringing stopped. Mrs P was in the kitchen at the time, I was in the living room where she'd left her phone and I just let it ring out.
I'm now wondering if Mrs P's phone read out the text that appeared on the screen with the alert. That would maybe explain the American accent.
That would also go some way to explaining Basil's Mangled Welsh pronunciation report.
WTF with an American voice for the message?
Three out of 5 phones on the pub table went off, not including mine.
Apparently Three subscribers didn't receive the alert.
Ah well, that's good.
As long as it wasn't tens of thousands!
WTF with an American voice for the message?
I assume it's just your OS's default text-to-speech voice. The messages themselves are pure text, but presumably someone thought it was a good idea for the phone to read it out (which is the sort of accessibility you want in an emergency).
In Britain, the wooden poles are fixed directly into the ground. In some countries, they're mounted on short concrete bases. I don't know how effective this is but I presume the intention is to stop them rotting from the ground up.QuoteIt's pretty easy to repair a downed power line. It's basically impossible to repair dozens of them on the same day when half the roads are blocked by trees or flooding - and you don't know which half because communications are a mess.Made worse by infrastructure that's 50 years old, so spares are no longer available to make a quick repair, and whole sections have to be rebuilt. The engineers drafted in from other regions had never seen anything like it - so much obsolete equipment. And miles of rotten wooden poles.
More likely it's to do with whether the ground is stable and conducive to having poles poked into it, but some countries do seem to eschew wood in favour of concrete for poles.
Nothing here on Android phone with 'emergency alerts' turned on. Three mobile network.
I read the contract for the alert was awarded to Fujitsu who subcontracted it to infosys.
We always used to use beacons and church bells. Why the need for change?
We always used to use beacons and church bells. Why the need for change?There were literally thousands of people out there yesterday showing that Philippides' method would still work.
We always used to use beacons and church bells. Why the need for change?
Some of us are deaf and wouldn't hear those. Lots of oral history of deaf people missing out.
It's another option and probably isn't taking away things like TV and radio.
Fewer full time staffed churches than there used to be, and I suspect church bell and siren systems had their reliability issues too.
My other understanding is that there is a chunk of the population who think 3G and mobile network 3 mean the same thing.
It's worth noting that in the UK the test is only sent to 4G and 5G phones. Millions of people still use 3G phones, which is why many of them won't have got the test message.
Phones also have to be connected to a 4G or 5G network tower at the time the message is broadcast. If they're turned off, in airplane mode, or operating over a wireless network they won't get the message (even if they later connect to a 4G or 5G network tower). It's not like a text message.
Surely if you're showing 1 bar of network connection, you're connected to the network. So the message arrives that way.It's worth noting that in the UK the test is only sent to 4G and 5G phones. Millions of people still use 3G phones, which is why many of them won't have got the test message.
Phones also have to be connected to a 4G or 5G network tower at the time the message is broadcast. If they're turned off, in airplane mode, or operating over a wireless network they won't get the message (even if they later connect to a 4G or 5G network tower). It's not like a text message.
You’re incorrect re the WiFi connection, both our phones were connected to the home WiFi (but also showing the usual 1 bar network connection) and both sounded the alarm.
Surely if you're showing 1 bar of network connection, you're connected to the network. So the message arrives that way.It's worth noting that in the UK the test is only sent to 4G and 5G phones. Millions of people still use 3G phones, which is why many of them won't have got the test message.
Phones also have to be connected to a 4G or 5G network tower at the time the message is broadcast. If they're turned off, in airplane mode, or operating over a wireless network they won't get the message (even if they later connect to a 4G or 5G network tower). It's not like a text message.
You’re incorrect re the WiFi connection, both our phones were connected to the home WiFi (but also showing the usual 1 bar network connection) and both sounded the alarm.
Surely if you're showing 1 bar of network connection, you're connected to the network. So the message arrives that way.It's worth noting that in the UK the test is only sent to 4G and 5G phones. Millions of people still use 3G phones, which is why many of them won't have got the test message.
Phones also have to be connected to a 4G or 5G network tower at the time the message is broadcast. If they're turned off, in airplane mode, or operating over a wireless network they won't get the message (even if they later connect to a 4G or 5G network tower). It's not like a text message.
You’re incorrect re the WiFi connection, both our phones were connected to the home WiFi (but also showing the usual 1 bar network connection) and both sounded the alarm.
Yep, my point was being connected to WiFi doesn’t in itself prevent the alert, which is what I read into Reg’s statement. Obviously, if the phone was only on WiFi it wouldn’t get the alerts.
...In NZ, an air raid siren was used as the method of summoning the local volunteer fire brigade. I slept through it (and the sirens of the fire engines right outside my window).
Surely the point of testing is, erm, to test it. A lot of people seem to be betting their bonnets infested with bees on the matter.
I'm disappointed to not get it, but I was at the musical theatre under a train arch and deprived of signal, and if that weren't enough, a chirpy gent on the stage reminded us to switch our bloody phones off.
So what is it for?
So what is it for?
Or "factory in town is on fire with nasty fumes - stay indoors and close windows"
Or "factory in town is on fire with nasty fumes - stay indoors and close windows"
I've received two of these since living in the Netherlands. Very useful.
Remember these alerts can be used on a very granular level even limited to just a single cell.
They don't have to be nation wide.
So "unexploded bomb found, please evacuate to <local leisure centre> " is very plausible.
J
Would it be breaching confidentiality to describe in some detail?
I'm trying to think of any event I have experienced in recent memory where such a warning might have been useful.
"ALERT!
An EVRI driver is in your area"
It occurs to me there's something missing from the alert system; any system of emergency alerts should be accompanied by an all clear signal, with its own distinctive, reassuring tone. It won't be appropriate in every emergency but in many it would, and it would both alleviate public anxiety (awooga! awooga! missing child! – whew! whew! child found!) and prevent some people eg re-entering the danger area (flood, fire, etc) before safe.
I wonder if having the same noise means people are less likely to ignore the all clear messages, or if on the contrary they are likely to dismiss two alerts sent within say 24 hours, assuming the second is an all clear?It occurs to me there's something missing from the alert system; any system of emergency alerts should be accompanied by an all clear signal, with its own distinctive, reassuring tone. It won't be appropriate in every emergency but in many it would, and it would both alleviate public anxiety (awooga! awooga! missing child! – whew! whew! child found!) and prevent some people eg re-entering the danger area (flood, fire, etc) before safe.
I've received all clear messages here. But they are the same noise and format as the original message.
J
Sunday's alert was sent to 4G and 5G phone networks, on iPhones running iOS 14.5 or later or phones and tablets running Android 11 or later.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65391455
The Cabinet Office said 80% of mobile phones in the UK were compatible to receive the alert.
According to the BBC, one in five phones in UK are running too old an operating system to receive these alerts:QuoteSunday's alert was sent to 4G and 5G phone networks, on iPhones running iOS 14.5 or later or phones and tablets running Android 11 or later.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65391455
The Cabinet Office said 80% of mobile phones in the UK were compatible to receive the alert.
It seems a surprisingly high proportion (though saying "Android 11", I have no idea what the latest iteration is).
Is it true that HMG contracted the alerts to Fujitsu, who subscontracted them toMurthy EnterprisesInfosys?
Just checked mine, which also got the alert, and it says "updated to Android 10". So, probably the BBC got something wrong.According to the BBC, one in five phones in UK are running too old an operating system to receive these alerts:QuoteSunday's alert was sent to 4G and 5G phone networks, on iPhones running iOS 14.5 or later or phones and tablets running Android 11 or later.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65391455
The Cabinet Office said 80% of mobile phones in the UK were compatible to receive the alert.
It seems a surprisingly high proportion (though saying "Android 11", I have no idea what the latest iteration is).
My old Samsung S7 claims to be Android 8.0.0 and it got the alert.
Fujitsu? Really? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal)Is it true that HMG contracted the alerts to Fujitsu, who subscontracted them toMurthy EnterprisesInfosys?
The first part is true - the second part seems to be interweb speculation.
Just checked mine, which also got the alert, and it says "updated to Android 10". So, probably the BBC got something wrong.According to the BBC, one in five phones in UK are running too old an operating system to receive these alerts:QuoteSunday's alert was sent to 4G and 5G phone networks, on iPhones running iOS 14.5 or later or phones and tablets running Android 11 or later.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65391455
The Cabinet Office said 80% of mobile phones in the UK were compatible to receive the alert.
It seems a surprisingly high proportion (though saying "Android 11", I have no idea what the latest iteration is).
My old Samsung S7 claims to be Android 8.0.0 and it got the alert.
Emergency alerts work on:
iPhones running iOS 14.5 or later
Android phones and tablets running Android 11 or later
If you have an earlier version of Android, you may still be able to receive alerts. To check, search your device settings for ‘emergency alerts’.
The .gov.uk blurb here (https://www.gov.uk/alerts/how-alerts-work) saysQuoteEmergency alerts work on:
iPhones running iOS 14.5 or later
Android phones and tablets running Android 11 or later
If you have an earlier version of Android, you may still be able to receive alerts. To check, search your device settings for ‘emergency alerts’.
Being in holiday in NL at the moment, we experienced that too - just a little bit of a surprise, especially with the accompanying air raid sirens ...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/09/parts-of-italian-volcano-stretched-nearly-to-breaking-point-study-finds
Not now Italian volcano....... :hand:
Or would the ejecta cool the planet & help combat global warming.... ?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/09/parts-of-italian-volcano-stretched-nearly-to-breaking-point-study-finds (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/09/parts-of-italian-volcano-stretched-nearly-to-breaking-point-study-finds)
Not now Italian volcano....... :hand:
Or would the ejecta cool the planet & help combat global warming.... ?
Dunno, but if the volcano erupts sufficiently to require the UK emergency address system, we got biiiiig problems.
J
Looking at pictures on Twitter suggests it’s a bit breezy over there. Trees down in Amsterdam & a lorry blown over on a main road. Luckily it’s missed the U.K.
Yes, mine was about 40 mins after, and Mrs Js nearly an hour after that.Ob. xkcd https://xkcd.com/723 (https://xkcd.com/723)
According to howling mad teppichfresser Marjorie Taylor Greene the earthquake and Monday’s eclipse are signs from Gaaaahhd telling USAnians to “repent”.WARNING
According to howling mad teppichfresser Marjorie Taylor Greene the earthquake and Monday’s eclipse are signs from Gaaaahhd telling USAnians to “repent”.WARNING
INCOMING JEWISH SPACE LASERS
According to howling mad teppichfresser Marjorie Taylor Greene the earthquake and Monday’s eclipse are signs from Gaaaahhd telling USAnians to “repent”.She forgets CERN operating on that day.