COVID19 and Audax UK

[Davef]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

In Scotland and Wales as well?

No just England.


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[davocon]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

I believe it say that in the other regions (than England) will be decoded by the devolved bodies. AUK is trying to take a national approach so my reading is that they are setting a date by which they hope guidance across the regions will be aligned.

Also BC have said that these things are suspended UNTIL those dates and will be reviewed in advance of those dates. It does not say that these events WILL be recommencing ion those dates.

That’s my reading anyway.

[Davef]

BC are saying “Club activities and coaching sessions can resume today, providing they are delivered in line with Government guidance on group sizes and social distancing. “ i.e. today, 18th June.
 


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[davocon]

BC are saying “Club activities and coaching sessions can resume today, providing they are delivered in line with Government guidance on group sizes and social distancing. “ i.e. today, 18th June.
 


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Yes, sorry I was meaning the references that were made to large breeze rides and sportives..

[Davef]

BC are saying “Club activities and coaching sessions can resume today, providing they are delivered in line with Government guidance on group sizes and social distancing. “ i.e. today, 18th June.
 


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Yes, sorry I was meaning the references that were made to large breeze rides and sportives..

They seem to be saying in the detail that from today, stage 3, multiple groups of 6 riders are allowed. The breeze rides are starting under stage 3 (which starts today) but because stage 3 has been brought forward nobody is ready (all the bookings are from 4th July). So in summary they have brought stage 3 forward from 4th July to today.

Sportives would be stage 4 which is still unchanged as 1st aug.


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[FifeingEejit]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

In Scotland and Wales as well?

No just England.


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Scottish Cycling saying they'll give an update on Monday.

Wales may be the sticking point.
Infections apparently up in Angelsey going by what's in the report about the chicken factory outbreak.

[Davef]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

In Scotland and Wales as well?

No just England.


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Scottish Cycling saying they'll give an update on Monday.

Wales may be the sticking point.
Infections apparently up in Angelsey going by what's in the report about the chicken factory outbreak.

I am avoiding meat processing plants on all my rides.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/us-coronavirus-meat-packing-plants-food


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[postie]

Good move by the board in my opinion and in line with what is currently allowed by government ( in England) .

[FifeingEejit]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

In Scotland and Wales as well?

No just England.


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Scottish Cycling saying they'll give an update on Monday.

Wales may be the sticking point.
Infections apparently up in Angelsey going by what's in the report about the chicken factory outbreak.

I am avoiding meat processing plants on all my rides.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/us-coronavirus-meat-packing-plants-food

yes, although the Wrescam is claiming it's due to an increase in community cases

"Whilst we are seeing a number of cases on site, Public Health Wales support our view that there is no clear evidence to suggest that there is a spread of the virus within the site, we are seeing a reflection on site of the increases in cases within the locality," it said.

Angelsey seems to be isolated.

Still it's 100 new cases detected so far.
And Wales R rate is stubbornly high despite them having the strictest lockdown of the UK nations.

Will find out what they decide to do next tomorrow.

[grimpeur du sudocrem]

Yep; all my perms will be open from that date 

Great news  - will you be taking the same approach to GdS RtY claims as AUK is for other RtYs?

Yes  although the actual GdS award for 2020 will still need to be completed by 31.12.20

Mid Sussex Hilly / Hillier looking unlikely as I've had no entries although the hall is pencilled it should it go ahead

That's fine, I've got 3 GdS for 2020 and need 4 more for GdSRtY (and AAARtY) which I intend to resume in August, so should tie in nicely.

If you do run MSH I'll be there - I guess everyone gave up entering things ages ago (I did) and obviously no-one knows yet when calendar events can restart, but once they do I would imagine pent-up demand will be high!

If not - drop me a line and I'll ride it with you as a DIY with some cafes and a pub 

[Ajax Bay]

British Cycling (18 June) - a positive, encouraging, timely yet controlled approach (and England focused).
Sanctions (ie immediately lifts the suspension on club and group activity, so authorises under BC auspices) club and group rides - limitation on group size and SD to be observed.
I wonder what additional risks Audax UK consider that individuals (and small groups) create or hazard when riding Permanents, including the DIY type? Presumably there is the judgement of additional risk to determine a delay till 1 Aug for such rides. Or is British Cycling being reckless allowing the types of activity listed? I suppose that Audax UK's reticence to restart validation of Perms/DIY till 1 Aug is driven by an overiding wish to be United, based on the (very reasonable) expectation that the home nations will align to sufficient extent (by 1 Aug), or that the long distance aspect of our rides risk 'spreading' the virus from one part of the country to another, or that validation of rides by Audax UK is really not important so what's the problem with waiting 4 weeks longer (than early July), or a combination of those factors
But we just don't know what the rationale is - I think it would be good to understand.

"British Cycling has today announced the next step in its plan to resume all sanctioned cycling activities in England, with coaching and group activity beginning to return from today (18 June). The national governing body has also announced that planning is underway to resume certain competitive events – such as time trials and downhill mountain biking – at the next stage of the process.

"The current suspension of sanctioned club and coaching activity was due to lift on 4 July, however with the support of new guidance published today on safe delivery, certain activities are now permitted to return with immediate effect.

"Details in the ‘British Cycling: The Way Forward’ update include that:

    Club activities and coaching sessions can resume today, providing they are delivered in line with Government guidance on group sizes and social distancing.
    The suspension of recreation programmes – such as HSBC UK Breeze and Guided Rides – will remain in place until 4 July, to enable Breeze Champions and Ride Leaders to access new training materials on safely leading group rides at the end of this month.
    While it is still not yet possible to reintroduce racing, the organisation, with its seven Discipline Commissions, is currently working on plans to reintroduce certain racing formats at the next stage of the process.
    Today’s (18 June) announcement moves us to Stage 3 of a six-stage plan, with Stage 6 being a return of all sanctioned activity."
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/The_Way_Forward_18-06-20_FINAL.pdf
The Way Forward - Planning a safe return to sanctioned cycling activity and facility use

[FifeingEejit]

Hm actually that's interesting because someone I know said they were restarting their training sessions as we went to "phase 1" here since it was compatible with him offering 1 socially distanced session a day.

I Guess his capacity doubles in 12 minutes!

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[Davef]

Hm actually that's interesting because someone I know said they were restarting their training sessions as we went to "phase 1" here since it was compatible with him offering 1 socially distanced session a day.

I Guess his capacity doubles in 12 minutes!

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1:1 coaching was already allowed by BC


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[FifeingEejit]

Hm actually that's interesting because someone I know said they were restarting their training sessions as we went to "phase 1" here since it was compatible with him offering 1 socially distanced session a day.

I Guess his capacity doubles in 12 minutes!

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1:1 coaching was already allowed by BC


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Ah!

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[LittleWheelsandBig]

Wales looks to be reducing travel and tourism restrictions in July.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-53090890

Does this bring the different countries into closer alignment when riding brevets?

[Bianchi Boy]

If this happens next year there will have to be a very hard discussion about risk because we will not be able to afford the NHS as the economy and national debt will be in such a state if we do lock down again.

We will be able to afford the NHS.  We might choose not to pay for it, but that would be a political choice.

This is the chart that explains it: national debt as % of GDP has risen recently but remains low by historical levels, and would still be within the post-war range were next year to see a second wave (which seems to be the base case for government scientists now). 

Please see link to BBC news
BBC News - UK debt now larger than size of whole economy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53104734

To compare debt to historic times like WW2 does not make sence to me. We are not out of this yet, we still have to pay for 3 months of ferloughing and we do not yet the impact on many businesses.

What will be able to afford next year?

BB

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[frankly frankie]

What will be able to afford next year?

I dunno but it's not going to be Audax UK's problem is it?

[Davef]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

In Scotland and Wales as well?

No just England.


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Scottish Cycling saying they'll give an update on Monday.

Wales may be the sticking point.
Infections apparently up in Angelsey going by what's in the report about the chicken factory outbreak.

Looks like unrestricted travel in Wales from the 6th July, overnight stays from 13th July but only in self contained accommodation (ie self catering no shared bathroom)


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[Bianchi Boy]

So AUK is looking to introduce perms up to 200km only (no calendar events) on the very same day (1 Aug.) as British Cycling is permitting sportives to be run with large bunches. Club rides of up to six riders are already permitted, which seems to be a fair analogue with perms.

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/about/article/20200618-about-bc-news-British-Cycling-announces-reintroduction-of-club-and-group-activity-0

In Scotland and Wales as well?

No just England.


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Scottish Cycling saying they'll give an update on Monday.

Wales may be the sticking point.
Infections apparently up in Angelsey going by what's in the report about the chicken factory outbreak.

Looks like unrestricted travel in Wales from the 6th July, overnight stays from 13th July but only in self contained accommodation (ie self catering no shared bathroom)


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This point came up before about, its not the traveling but the stopping that is the problem. Quite when we will be able to have crowded controls with shared loos, communal sleeping and eating I have no idea. The reason self catering is opening before hotels is because the accomodation will be cleaned between visits by staff in protective clothes. There is still no indication that I can see of general hotels will open and nothing on any of the chains about booking.

Good news about the traveling, but apart from audax hotels there is nowhere to stay. This is the primary reason why I found it so hard to understand why Lejog was not cancelled. How can you offer a 5 day ride with no offer of accomodation that complies with the law? Never mind been able to feed people in one place.

BB

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[postie]

Primer inn have been taking bookings for awhile, currently plan to open in july.

[Davef]

Perhaps we will have to have audaxes without the communal sleeping and eating for some time, for example like x rated events. From my inbox most hotels seem to expect to be opening in England from the 4th July. With regard to the welsh “self contained definition” this appears to mean no shared toilet or dining facilities. I would have thought budget hotels like travelodge would fall into that category. Other non audax events with overnight stops that I have done have had a bag drop to a campsite for the overnight accommodation/food. Other sports seem to be finding solutions to the challenges presented to them.


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[Flâneur]

If this happens next year there will have to be a very hard discussion about risk because we will not be able to afford the NHS as the economy and national debt will be in such a state if we do lock down again.

We will be able to afford the NHS.  We might choose not to pay for it, but that would be a political choice.

This is the chart that explains it: national debt as % of GDP has risen recently but remains low by historical levels, and would still be within the post-war range were next year to see a second wave (which seems to be the base case for government scientists now). 

Please see link to BBC news
BBC News - UK debt now larger than size of whole economy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53104734

To compare debt to historic times like WW2 does not make sence to me. We are not out of this yet, we still have to pay for 3 months of ferloughing and we do not yet the impact on many businesses.

What will be able to afford next year?

BB

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UK National Debt went over 100% of GDP today, so that chart is well out of date. And that is without factoring in the denominator effect of the large GDP drops to come

[Davef]

Maybe there needs to be a separate thread on solving the U.K. economic problems leaving this one to the more complex problem of how to cycle a long way legally.


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[grams]

It's probably a good time to start a new thread about what rides people have planned come August.

[mattc]

Perhaps we will have to have audaxes without the communal sleeping and eating for some time, for example like x rated events. From my inbox most hotels seem to expect to be opening in England from the 4th July. With regard to the welsh “self contained definition” this appears to mean no shared toilet or dining facilities. I would have thought budget hotels like travelodge would fall into that category. Other non audax events with overnight stops that I have done have had a bag drop to a campsite for the overnight accommodation/food. Other sports seem to be finding solutions to the challenges presented to them.

The challenges around accommodation and travel seem to be very easily solved by any UK citizen (even cyclists), but AUK seem to take the view that their naughty children  - oh I'm sorry, I mean "members"- might still find a way to misbehave, and are acting in great fear of That Sort Of Thing.