Base training

[Chris S]

Thought I may as well do an FTP test - just for shits and giggles.

I chose the 2x8 format as I'm not supposed to do extended duration maximal efforts. Result - 206w (2.4w/Kg).

I also tested my BP immediately after each work interval, because of my history of HRE; 181/95 and 174/93 - these sound scary, but actually they're pretty typical BP readings for a big aerobic effort, and they're waaaay less than I scored during the stress test at the hospital a couple of years ago (260/90!) - so that's all good.

206 seems a bit feeble to me though. Work to do, I think - once I've traded in these jelly-legs for some new ones...

[simonp]

Do bear in mind that most people under test - particularly on the first attempt - as getting an accurate result requires pushing yourself very hard and good pacing.

[Chris S]

Do bear in mind that most people under test - particularly on the first attempt - as getting an accurate result requires pushing yourself very hard and good pacing.

Not sure I could have gone much harder TBH - my HR was in the 180s by the end of the second interval, my absolute max is 193, but I really don't like to push it that far. I guess an underestimate is better than an overestimate.

[simonp]

I did a 4x20 tempo ride yesterday. NP of 215W for two hours.

[Bobby]

First 3 days of the Sustained Power Build done, the FTP test hurt and has certainly set a good level for the next sessions.  Hope I can keep on it given my rather random approach to 'base' - on reflection I under tested for that so the sessions were too easy & I got bored.

On the whole the TrainerRoad thing is exactly what I needed - tells me what to do & is tailored to my (rather poor) FTP level

[simonp]

Not trained at all since last weekend (apart from a rowing session on Tuesday) due to work and rowing in the Monmouth Regatta this weekend. Going for a ride outdoors tomorrow and will be trying to get back on it this week.

[simonp]

A disruptive few weeks with regatta, being away a lot, and feeling a bit tired. Managed to get some quality training in as I took a bike and the KickR with me. Monday's workout I cut short as I've clearly detrained a bit (and might have been a bit tired with travel and not enough sleep). Last night's was a base workout and my average HR was only +2bpm since the same workout in early May - base should not disappear as fast as high end, which is useful given I'm supposed to be riding the Tan Hill 600k this weekend.

Tonight I'll throw in a harder one again - an over-unders threshold workout. That will be a tester.

[rob]

Dropped my mid-week turbo session durations but still doing 3 on top of the commuting.   Ended last weekend pretty knackered.   I have 100m TTs the next 2 weekends with the second one being my first A race of the year.

After that it's only 5 weeks to the 24hr.   I don't really have a plan how to fill those weeks yet, but I'm sure I'll think of something.

[simonp]

Struggled again, then went to the pub. 

[simonp]

Think I'm back. Completed an over-under workout on target. Phew!

[Bobby]

Small numbers compared to others (and it's a virtual power curve so cannot compare anyhoo)

4 weeks into my TrainerRoad plan & I've just retested the 20-min test...
suggested FTP is up from 185 to 199 (so close to 200!)
Suggested LTHR is down from 158 to 157

Basically I appear to have worked just as hard with greater power output 

I thought the last few sessions were a bit too easy 

[simonp]

Result! 

[Ningishzidda]

Your voluntary muscles have worked harder ( more sustainable Watts ), because your pulmonary and vascular systems have developed to transport oxygen for the additional workload you demand. Your involuntary muscles have worked at very close to the same workload. Hence your LTHR is similar for increased power output.

[JohnR]

Can anyone explain if my understanding is correct, I am working with power on a gym bike as I've said before and have looked at a chart which attempts to correlate FTP to be in hr and power zones. Now I have attempted to work out my maximum minute power (mmp) which appears to be 250w based on the power I'm using which corresponds to my hr zone and my rpe each appear to agree with my perception.

I did a little test last night where I maintained 250w for exactly 1 minute on a timed interval workout which appeared to be a little bit easy for me as I was hitting a higher wattage and had to keep lowering my cadence to bring it back in line.

My question is does MMP actually mean your maximum power you can maintain over one minute? As my hr at the end was only around 165 ish (what I normally ride my bike at).

[chrisbainbridge]

I would suggest that for audax 165 bpm is rather high.  Even for a 30 year old 165bpm is on the high side.  I am 57 and my 20 min FTP test average HR is 167-168bpm with a maximum of about 177. Most people who ride Audax will try to be in the endurance range of about 120.  The problem with a MMP test done on HR is that the heart rate always lags behind the actual power and therefore it is the HR about 20 secs after the interval that is needed.

[Chris S]

Yup. And that's why I'm not audaxing this year - my average on a 200 is 145-155. Ten hours of that is just not healthy.

[JohnR]

I'm 61 and trying t get a higher FTP which I suppose will mean I will produce more power through my heart rate range. If I travel with a hr of around 120 I will be too slow, All my rides irrespective of distance have me around 155-165 mostly and average is usually around 155bpm.

If I exercise below about 160-175 bpm I don't get any fitter 
my max hr is 185 when I get very light headed, but I struggle to get near this these days.

[simonp]

My average HR on Yr Elenydd was 140. I've got no problem with that.

[Chris S]

I've never been able to find any actual literature saying explicitly that extended periods of high (as in >75% LTHR) heart rates are bad for you, but there's some evidence to show that a lot of training over the years can damage the heart.

The fact that a proportion of marathon runners, tested at the end of a marathon, show elevated levels of heart protein similar to that following an infarction, is telling. When I was taken to hospital in Good Friday 2014, my levels were raised - but they said not high enough to indicate a heart attack, "but it looks like you've run a half marathon".

Let's not forget - a marathon is only for 3 or 4 hours, even a 200 is two or three times that.

[Pedal Castro]

My question is does MMP actually mean your maximum power you can maintain over one minute? As my hr at the end was only around 165 ish (what I normally ride my bike at).

Yes it does, to work it out; warm up for ~15' then go as hard as you can for one minute, the average power sustained in that minute is your MMP.

As Chris said, there is no correlation between this a HR. This is because for that minute you are working anaerobically mainly, which doesn't need oxygen. The body however, will need oxygen to process the lactate you are producing so HR goes up and continues to do so for a bit afterwards. This is also the reason for the lag in HR for any increase in effort, not enough oxygen for the demand so initially work is anaerobic until the HR catches up with the demand, usually 1-3 minutes. (Edit: it therefore takes some experience and skill to use HRs for controlling short intervals, which is why I do all my short intervals on a virtual power enabled turbo)

[JohnR]

Thanks for the explanation pedal Castro I do my intervals 3 x 10 minutes with 3 minutes easy pedalling at around half the power of each session, I am trying to correlate my sustainable power with my hr after the lag so that when I am out on the bike I have some idea of what I can reasonably maintain.

In doing this I am trying to increase my FTP in order for me to produce more power for a given hr and hopefully allow me to ride at a lower hr than present without going too slow, as would be the case at present.

Going back to my question I was working backwards to roughly find my FTP from my workout using the MMP which corresponds to my steady state hr and my perceived exertion to hopefully ensure I am working out within the right zone.

[zigzag]

for the record, mmp needs to be calculated from the 3-minute test. pushing hard for only one minute will give a false result, which is typically 1.5x higher.

http://hub.wattbike.com/knowledge/the-3-minute-test

[LMT]

Zigzag has it right, MMP is done at three minutes not for one.

And John, this three minute effort is at paced full gas, so not an all out sprint but you should be on your limit in the last minute and at the end of the test you should be in a fair amount of pain. Heavy breathing, slumped over the bike, unable to acknowledge another person let alone speak to them, etc.

<pissing contest alert> mine was 466w when last tested at the end of April.

[JohnR]

Ah I see, no wonder it felt too easy over my one minute , thanks.

[Pedal Castro]

for the record, mmp needs to be calculated from the 3-minute test. pushing hard for only one minute will give a false result, which is typically 1.5x higher.

http://hub.wattbike.com/knowledge/the-3-minute-test

Interesting, so the Wattbike MMP isn't actually your maximum power sustainable for one minute?