My Hypothetical 'Dream' Bike (first of many questions)

[Frenchie]

My custom (steel) Mercian all Ultegra (20-sp) equipped took over 6 months to get and cost ca. £1800 3 years ago.

The equivalent fixed would now be in the same range, maybe a bit cheaper.

[Nick H.]

£1500 for a dream bike? Pah - I once spent $16,000! 

I don't see how a ti bike can be a bike-for-life. What if it needs repairing? Ti welders are dashed hard to find. You need something which can be repaired by a British framebuilder.

With your money I'd start by picking an ultimate steel tube set by asking Dave Yates. I'd ask what the point of 953 is. OK, it's stainless, but it will still need painting to cover the silver solder won't it? So I don't see how you can have a stainless steel look. And if 853 is properly rustproofed it will last forever. So I wouldn't get 953 unless it gives a better ride. And I can't find anything on the web to say that it's definitely lighter or stiffer than 853 Pro Team.  Anyway, because Dave works with anything he might suggest, say, Columbus Spirit. 0.38mm wall thickness - how dreamy is that! http://www.framebuilding.com/Spirit.htm

Another option is to go on Dave's course and build it yourself - that's a dream come true! And yes, you can build it in 853, no problem.  An unpainted frame would be around about £795 for the course and about £250 for materials.

Then I'd spend the rest of the money on an insanely beautiful paint job. And transfer my existing components across to the new frame. And start saving for some Carbonsports Lightweight wheels 

[border-rider]

I don't see how a ti bike can be a bike-for-life. What if it needs repairing? Ti welders are dashed hard to find. You need something which can be repaired by a British framebuilder.

Fair point, though I believe that it is now possible to post things to, for example, Canada

With your money I'd start by picking an ultimate steel tube set by asking Dave Yates. I'd ask what the point of 953 is. OK, it's stainless, but it will still need painting to cover the silver solder won't it?

Not if it's TIG-welded.  But a painted 953 frame with bare metal showing on the rear stays (as Brian Rourke has done on the 953 frames I've seen on audaxs) does look very nice indeed.  [as an aside, I was interested to read that 953 is a seamed tubing]

And start saving for some Carbonsports Lightweight wheels

On a British handbuilt steel frame ?  Not a bit incongruous ?  And maybe pretty unsuitable for the sort of riding you'd I'd use a Yukon/Mather type bike for ?  But they'd look lovely on a carbon TT machine, no question.  On a steel frame I'd go for handbuilt wheels with OP ceramic rims.

[Nick H.]

The Lightweights are so pretty I think they'd look lovely on a steel frame with a contemporary paint job. But if it had 'classic' touches like contrasting lugs or a quill stem it would jar a bit. I'm sure it's all a bit academic anyway - who buys Lightweights for general purpose riding? Only idiots like me.

To be more practical, if this bike is going to be an 'ultimate' I think it would be a shame to burden it with heavy wheels. Handbuilts with OPs are probably going to be 1.8 kg or so? I think I might get these 1.35 kg Rolf Primas http://www.rolfwheels.com/products-Elan.php and take the stickers off. They're hand built in a factory and can be rebuilt. The factory doesn't trust anyone else to do the rebuilds though.

[MSeries]

They'd blow the budget of £1500m though surely. I wouldn't sully my machines with wheels like that at all though.

[border-rider]

To be more practical, if this bike is going to be an 'ultimate' I think it would be a shame to burden it with heavy wheels. Handbuilts with OPs are probably going to be 1.8 kg or so? I think I might get these 1.35 kg Rolf Primas

You need to be careful  - it's rotating weight that counts.  You need to look at the rim weights as a comparison, and factor in tyres.

I suspect that those Primas do have lighter rims, but an awful lot of factory wheels have pretty heavy rims compared to an OP, even if the overall weight is less

But it also depend what you mean by ultimate.  On my best audax bike, the back wheel is a ceramic OP on a Royce track hub with Sapim Laser spokes.  That's a damn light wheel, and it probably is the ultimate for its intended use. I'd not fancy doing a laney 600, for example, on Rolf Primas.  That bike even has a Royce Ti BB: I didn't consider money when I built it, just put on what I felt was the best for the job.

[Nick H.]

Fair point. It has to be carbon rims then!  Maybe some handbuilts with rims from Zipp, Corima...? As for the budget I was assuming it would be OK to blow £1500 in year 1 of this bike's life, probably just on frame/forks/paint/stem/headset, use existing components from the OPers current bike(s), and then blow another £1500 in year two on wheels. 

I'll never forget the joy of accelerating with Lightweights and detecting a total absence of inertia. It was just amazing. I know it makes no difference to your A to B time...but the feeling is just sublime. It must give you a psychological boost, and help you to believe that the next 100 miles on a dreary, wet audax are going to be a piss of pish.

Back to the Rolfs...they do come in black too, and they look quite classy without the  stickers. They're built by very clever, experienced people and have a reputation in the US for coping with bad road surfaces. If they had had decent distribution in the UK for the last ten years I think they'd be quite highly thought of over here.

[Nick H.]

Don't want to put anyone off their supper, but you have to see this:




More examples of this chap's work here: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Baylis_main.htm

My excuse for sticking this in the thread is that PaulF might want to consider fancy lugs, which could even be custom hand-cut ones to his own design. It would take a while to organise, but you don't seem to be in a hurry Paul.

Here are some fantastic lugs.



I saw them in IRL on an IF carbon frame at Mosquito Bikes, and they're much more amazing than the pic. They're made of ti, but you could always copy them.

Here's the Kirk Terraplane, which is many people's idea of the ultimate steel frame. Supposed to be v. comfy for longer rides:



David Kirk the builder also designed the Serotta DKS rear end, which was very popular with the few people who bought it. It was too ugly to get many sales:

[gonzo]

Entirely personally and speaking as an engineer (and with 1 bike of each material in my garage), I'd go for Ti every time. By my reckoning, you've definately made the right decision knocking carbon off the list at the first chance as it's not appropriate for a main bike used for general purposes. Carbon wheels are really not appropriate for general purpose riding either. Carbon braking surfaces are notoriously rubbish in bad weather and it's prone to nasty things happening to it. Carbon wheels can be lovely to ride, but my zipps are race day only wheels even though they do make the riding more exciting.

The problem with 953 is that it's got similar density to other ypes of steel, but is stronger thus they make the tubes thinner to keep the weight down. If you're worried about longjevity then coke-can walls are not really what you want.

If everyone of my bikes got knicked and I had to build the collection up from scratch again I'd do it in the following order of priority:
1) Ti bike from Enigma; full custom with a set of wheels from Harry Rowland.
2) Cross bike made to a fairly cheap spec as a do everything bike.
3) TT bike, zipp front, generic disc back.
4) Fixie not costing me more than £100 to build so it doesn't matter too much if it get's knicked.

[microphonie]

Have you seen the Planet X Sportive offer on at the moment?


EDIT: Link now updated!

[clarion]

No - and I can't cause of a 404

[gonzo]

It's on the front page at the mo

http://www.planet-x-warehouse.co.uk/