A visit from the footbinder

[sam]

* See, they really come in handy

[mzjo]

Damn uncomfortable with open-toed sandals, which I wear 9 months of the year, usually without socks!

[T42]

I voted no but I do use toe hooks on the beater because I got fed up lifting my foot to bring the pedal up prior to setting off and finding that that was all I had lifted.  Hooks ain't clips, though.

[citoyen]

Never liked toeclips. Hardly use clipless either these days, tbh.

[sam]

No surprise the noes are far and away in the lead. Along with my rim (aka very big disc) brakes, they clearly mark me out as retro. I did try clipless and didn't fall off – which is more than I can say for toeclips! – but that wasn't enough to endear them to me. Even tried no retention at all, for the hell of it. That lasted about 3 seconds up the first big hill.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Compared to clipless, they suck.

Riding uphill, the big advantage is in the pull, and to ensure you don't slip out of toeclips, they have to be done up so tight you loose circulation. then you need to slacken them off when stopping. That's lots of fun when riding fixed, and you will learn how to trackstand very quickly.

If you have them loose, they stop your feet from sliding off, but are fairly useless in helping 'grip' the pedals. Plain spiky BMX pedals are better, but do a lovely job of 'decorating' your shin skin.

Their sole big advantage over SPD is in very cold conditions. A big set of toeclips can be used with insulated walking boots (advantage toeclips), and they don't have a chunk of steel mm away from your foot, sucking the heat out (advantage toeclips). But you can get most of that advantage with spiky pedals and not have the issue of ice rendering the straps unloosenable.

[tatanab]

Compared to clipless, they suck.

Riding uphill, the big advantage is in the pull, and to ensure you don't slip out of toeclips, they have to be done up so tight you loose circulation. then you need to slacken them off when stopping.

That is certainly true of those who have grown up with clipless.  I was a late adopter in 1995 having ridden with toeclips for the previous 26 years.  Most of us did not do up toestraps tightly (except in competition), just in a snug fit around the shoe.  I guess we adopted a different foot position when climbing since we did not routinely pull our feet out and I remember being able to pull up against the toeclip - sort of flat footed I suppose.   

I have a 1956 machine, period equipped with toeclips, and I find that these days I have to strap up tightly and use shoe plates to stop me pulling my feet out.  This is  because for the last 28 years I have routinely used clipless and changed foot position/riding style to suit. This shows how much I pull up and back when climbing or pulling away from a junction;  I am pleased that I can still pick up the toeclip within the first half a rev of the cranks, on gears or on fixed, so that is one skill I have not lost.

[Kim]

I used PowerGrips with walking boots for a bit before I discovered SPDs.  They destroyed shoes, whereas SPDs just destroy pedals.  (I've since discovered Time ATAC, which is more cost-efficient as it destroys cleats.)  Presumably toeclips don't do the upper of your shoes any favours when used long-term, either?

[mrcharly-YHT]

I used PowerGrips with walking boots for a bit before I discovered SPDs.  They destroyed shoes, whereas SPDs just destroy pedals.  (I've since discovered Time ATAC, which is more cost-efficient as it destroys cleats.)  Presumably toeclips don't do the upper of your shoes any favours when used long-term, either?

The metal ones are worse than power grips on ordinary shoes, because you have metal edges gouging at the front of the shoe.

[sam]

I happen to think clipless makes more sense; I just don't like the way it feels to be attached to my bike in that particular way, like I'm stuck, even though it's easy enough to 'unstick'… Keeping the straps just the right amount of loose like tatanab mentions works fine for me, and provides necessary retention for all the honking (the French 'en danseuse' is much preferable) I get up to.

Extra wear on the uppers hasn't been an issue, at least with the shoes I've been wearing for some years now. I do see a bit of a problem on this old shoe, which was mostly undone by rat traps on the sole (and by the looks of it an actual rat nibbling on the heel). Such a pity, as I remember those as being extra comfy, and great for walking as well.

OT, where the thread title came from. Though some cycling shoes are pretty torturous.

[citoyen]

Pulling up on pedals (eg when climbing) is bad technique - unless you have the retention set very tight, there's far too much danger of pulling your foot out of the pedal.

I just don't like the way it feels to be attached to my bike in that particular way, like I'm stuck, even though it's easy enough to 'unstick'…

I increasingly feel the same way. Even on fixed I mostly prefer to be untethered.

[sam]

I don't worry about technique as such, I just do what works, and has worked for a very long time. I suppose I could retrain, but I've got a big investment in muscle memory now.

It's mostly about knowing my feet won't fly off. They don't slip out very often, even without the straps being tight. Goldilocks does them up for me.

[mzjo]

I have a pair of Look "Micro-Look" pedals which are like SPDs only not quite. One day on fixed en danseuse up a 10% hill one pedal decided to unlatch. They came off the bike the moment I got home! I get on ok with SPDs (particularly on the recumbent!) but the Looks never inspired me with confidence, difficult to clip in, difficult to unclip and not reliable when clipped in as well. I've still got them, I wouldn't give them away to my worst enemy!

As an ado I used fixed most of the time with ordinary shoes for school (and at all other times as well). I learnt to do my toestraps up well tight. Going up Leckhampton Hill (going out of Cheltenham, for those who don't know) my brother and I regularly came to a halt at the top still strapped in. There was a grassy bank we would fall against still clipped (and then take our time to slacken the straps and release ourselves). (For those who ask "why stop?" we would have to wait for the others, including our elder sister, who had been left behind lower down the slope!)

[paton]

Does pulling up on the pedals produce any power?

https://roadcyclinguk.com/racing/interview-british-cycling-team-sky-physio-phil-burt.html

https://velocitysportscycling.com/cycling-myth-busting-from-team-sky/

https://cyclingindustry.news/opinion-10-bike-fit-myths/

Can you go against evolution?

https://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke.html

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/efficient-pedaling-cadence-crank-arm-length-for-cyclists/id1368799871?i=1000515174055

https://www.bikejames.com/strength/why-pulling-up-doesnt-add-to-your-pedal-stroke-power/

https://pedalinginnovations.com/catalyst-evo/

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It does at low revs (e.g. climbing fixed) or fast starts (e.g. kilo, BMX). Otherwise, not so much but I much prefer being fastened to the pedals. Bouncing my feet off the pedals at high revs, over bumps or bunnyhopping over potholes isn’t much fun.

[fd3]

Power grips have not badgered my shoes, and allow me to own half as many shoes as I would need with clipless.

[Kim]

It does at low revs (e.g. climbing fixed) or fast starts (e.g. kilo, BMX). Otherwise, not so much but I much prefer being fastened to the pedals. Bouncing my feet off the pedals at high revs, over bumps or bunnyhopping over potholes isn’t much fun.

I'll add recumbent bike (particularly those with higher bottom brackets) starts on adverse camber hills and dodgy surfaces, where being able to pedal one-footed for the first couple of revolutions lets you keep your other foot as an abort strategy.

Edge-cases certainly, but quite useful ones.

[mrcharly-YHT]

When my muscles are tired, cramping, being able to pull up relieves some of the strain.

I can believe that it doesn't increase power output, but it does share out the total workload. For us lesser mortals, that is a benefit.