ABUS Bordo Folding locks.

[quixoticgeek]

Wondering if anyone here can help me with a lock question.

I'm trying to find physical size data for a couple of the ABUS Bordo folding locks. I have an old one (not sold secure so not insurance approved) that I would like to replace, The Bordo 6000 is the same size. But I'm curious, how does the 6000 compare to the GRANIT X Plus 6500 in terms of physical size when folded up ?

Thanks

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

Can't give you figures but I was looking at locks in LBS just yesterday. They had a 'demo' Bordo to play with. When folded, it is really quite compact. Shorter and much narrower than any D-lock. I'd estimate about half the length of a Granit. Heavy, though.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I’m thinking of getting one of these - the 6500.

http://thebestbikelock.com/folding-locks/abus-bordo-6500-review/

Any reports from users, good, bad or indifferent?

The compact size and bottle cage mount appeals, as does the slightly more flexible format, but I can see from reviews that it’s less secure than a D-lock of the same level. On the other hand, a quick look at Youtube shows that there isn’t a single bike lock that some bugger can’t get through.

[FifeingEejit]

I've got the XPlus 6500
It's heavy... (Hevier than a Granite 54 D lock)
I've hardly used it

When I did try to use it I found there wasn't quite enough room to wrap it round some of the things I'd normally wrap locks around, however same issue with a D lock.

Don't have a 6000 to compare it to

However it's sitting on top of an A5 note pad, it's as long as the notepad is high, and about half the width.

[quixoticgeek]

I’m thinking of getting one of these - the 6500.

http://thebestbikelock.com/folding-locks/abus-bordo-6500-review/

Any reports from users, good, bad or indifferent?

The compact size and bottle cage mount appeals, as does the slightly more flexible format, but I can see from reviews that it’s less secure than a D-lock of the same level. On the other hand, a quick look at Youtube shows that there isn’t a single bike lock that some bugger can’t get through.

I have one of these (X plus 6500). It weighs a lot. I have it keyed alike with a 540 U lock too. I wouldn't trust it in central Amsterdam with anything beyond a cheapish stad fiets. Certainly wouldn't put a di2 race bike there with it.

It has a weakness to a nut splitter attack, but it is rather easy to use. It just weighs a lot.

J

[Sergeant Pluck]

I’m thinking of getting one of these - the 6500.

http://thebestbikelock.com/folding-locks/abus-bordo-6500-review/

Any reports from users, good, bad or indifferent?

The compact size and bottle cage mount appeals, as does the slightly more flexible format, but I can see from reviews that it’s less secure than a D-lock of the same level. On the other hand, a quick look at Youtube shows that there isn’t a single bike lock that some bugger can’t get through.

I have one of these (X plus 6500). It weighs a lot. I have it keyed alike with a 540 U lock too. I wouldn't trust it in central Amsterdam with anything beyond a cheapish stad fiets. Certainly wouldn't put a di2 race bike there with it.

It has a weakness to a nut splitter attack, but it is rather easy to use. It just weighs a lot.

J

Do you find the Bordo to be easier to get around stands or lampposts than the D lock?

I’m starting to lean towards the Granit X D-lock instead, although mounting it will be more awkward.

[Jurek]

For the money that you are paying for that, I'd go for the TiGr Mini lock every time.
Light enough in weight that you can put it in your pocket / bag without noticing it, and you can guarantee that no scrote will have any tools capable of cutting it.
Also, those Achilles heels pivots. How many?

ETA - 'How many?' is irrelevant. It only takes one.

[Kim]

Do you find the Bordo to be easier to get around stands or lampposts than the D lock?

I have a Bordo Lite (looks the part, but is much less secure and a lot less heavy) as an alternative to a cable lock for touring.  It's certainly easier to get round wider objects (eg. small trees) than a D-lock, and it's especially good at square fence posts.  Sometimes getting it round the object and the bike means you're left having to operate the key at a weird angle to unlock it.

Not quite as versatile as a cable lock, of course, but less of an invitation to opportunist attack.

[bludger]

I’m thinking of getting one of these - the 6500.

http://thebestbikelock.com/folding-locks/abus-bordo-6500-review/

Any reports from users, good, bad or indifferent?

They're ok. I would never use one as an "all day" lock but if you're touring or doing a 600 and want to save on weight a bit I think they're good.

On regular audaxes I use a cable lock for cafés etc. I use the bordo if I'm doing a ride where I'm liable to go inside a big supermarket for a few minutes or go for a number 2 (if I can't bring the bike in with me).

Decent compromise locks but no substitute for sold secure gold d lock based system for normal cycling purposes. It would be ok to use a sold secure gold lock on the frame and rear wheel and then the bordo for the front.

[Sergeant Pluck]

For the money that you are paying for that, I'd go for the TiGr Mini lock every time.
Light enough in weight that you can put it in your pocket / bag without noticing it, and you can guarantee that no scrote will have any tools capable of cutting it.
Also, those Achilles heels pivots. How many?

ETA - 'How many?' is irrelevant. It only takes one.

Yes, a nut splitter can separate those pivots.

But a normal hacksaw can get through the TiGr main strap in less than a minute.

[De Sisti]

I use a combination of these locks when I go out on my bike.
Bordo Lite 6055 on the extreme left.

If I was doing a 200 (with a couple of cafe stops) I'd use the two extreme locks
and one from the middle.

[Sergeant Pluck]

The bike I want to lock up is like this:



Usually, I will only need to lock this up in a relatively safe place indoors at work, so most of the time it just needs to be immobilised and made more awkward in the event that some random opportunist sees it, or someone observes me bringing it in.

But while I am at it I might as well get something that will allow me to nip into the shops etc. It’s a bit more awkward than most bikes, hence making me think that a folding lock might be the job. On the other hand it is easily made less appealing by taking the battery out and a pedal off.

[Jurek]

For the money that you are paying for that, I'd go for the TiGr Mini lock every time.
Light enough in weight that you can put it in your pocket / bag without noticing it, and you can guarantee that no scrote will have any tools capable of cutting it.
Also, those Achilles heels pivots. How many?

ETA - 'How many?' is irrelevant. It only takes one.

Yes, a nut splitter can separate those pivots.

But a normal hacksaw can get through the TiGr main strap in less than a minute.

Srsly? Through Ti?

[Tim Hall]

For the money that you are paying for that, I'd go for the TiGr Mini lock every time.
Light enough in weight that you can put it in your pocket / bag without noticing it, and you can guarantee that no scrote will have any tools capable of cutting it.
Also, those Achilles heels pivots. How many?

ETA - 'How many?' is irrelevant. It only takes one.

Yes, a nut splitter can separate those pivots.

But a normal hacksaw can get through the TiGr main strap in less than a minute.

Srsly? Through Ti?

For sure. See Bosnian bill's review here: https://youtu.be/WZ0UCzi0Tpg
Hacksaw action starts at about 14 minutes.

[bludger]

The bike I want to lock up is like this:



Usually, I will only need to lock this up in a relatively safe place indoors at work, so most of the time it just needs to be immobilised and made more awkward in the event that some random opportunist sees it, or someone observes me bringing it in.

But while I am at it I might as well get something that will allow me to nip into the shops etc. It’s a bit more awkward than most bikes, hence making me think that a folding lock might be the job. On the other hand it is easily made less appealing by taking the battery out and a pedal off.

Honestly I wouldn't mess around with a flash looking gizmo like that. A sold secure gold lock and an extender cable would be the least I would go in with - and I'd be minded to take the battery out while off the bike too.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Honestly I wouldn't mess around with a flash looking gizmo like that. A sold secure gold lock and an extender cable would be the least I would go in with - and I'd be minded to take the battery out while off the bike too.

Agreed. The Bordo 6500 is Sold Secure Gold rated, otherwise I wouldn’t even be considering it.

Folding lock or D-lock, it’s pretty awkward to lock frame + rear wheel as you would with a “normal” bike. Guess putting a D-lock around the rear wheel only within that rear triangle, Sheldon style, without including any of the stays, is one way to go. Could maybe get both wheels in when the bike is folded.

[quixoticgeek]

For the money that you are paying for that, I'd go for the TiGr Mini lock every time.
Light enough in weight that you can put it in your pocket / bag without noticing it, and you can guarantee that no scrote will have any tools capable of cutting it.
Also, those Achilles heels pivots. How many?

ETA - 'How many?' is irrelevant. It only takes one.

Yes, a nut splitter can separate those pivots.

But a normal hacksaw can get through the TiGr main strap in less than a minute.

Srsly? Through Ti?

For sure. See Bosnian bill's review here: https://youtu.be/WZ0UCzi0Tpg
Hacksaw action starts at about 14 minutes.

Yep, and the nut splitter is damn effective at the Bordo too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zs8uyPsDaw0

But then, even the 540 is not totally immune to a skilled attack...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdiO1ZiiXk

Watching LPL's videos made me realise that every lock will fail, just a question of how quickly.

In a world where you can get a battery powered angle grinder for less than the cost of a decent lock, the war has been lost.

Assess the risk level and choose your weapon accordingly.

The best way tho is to not lock your bike up anywhere too risky.

J

[FifeingEejit]

I'd like to see that test repeated in the street, including the picking the plastic off step, the amount the vice appeared to be moving while he ratcheted up the force on the plates seemed to be quite a bit.

In most cases you'd probably be quicker attacking what it's attached to with a grinder and at sold secure gold you're only supposedly giving 5 mins for someone to realize its not  the bike owner trying to recover their own bike and see them long enough to be able to give the polis some form of description.

If you don't have insurance it's kind of pointless...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

[hubner]

Loads of lock testing videos are be a bit misleading though, especially the ones from the manufacturers!

In the lock picking ones, they first practice picking the lock, maybe for hours including disassembley, before making the video which shows them picking the lock in a few seconds. In the case of some front door locks, they even turn the lock upside down to make it easier.

In the ones where the lock is held firmly in a vice, if the lock was on a bike, either the bike would be damaged or they wouldn't have been able to apply the same force as easily.

If it's for a very expensive ebike, I would get the heaviest and thickest D lock (ie most "secure") and only lock the frame and use nuts or non-qr skewers for the wheels as I think the wheels would be less likely to be stolen than the whole bike. For locking both wheels and the frame, I would use a heavy and thick chain to lock the frame and the back wheel and a second D lock for the front.

Since it's an ebike, perhaps use locks designed for motorbikes that lock the bike to an object.

[Jurek]

For the money that you are paying for that, I'd go for the TiGr Mini lock every time.
Light enough in weight that you can put it in your pocket / bag without noticing it, and you can guarantee that no scrote will have any tools capable of cutting it.
Also, those Achilles heels pivots. How many?

ETA - 'How many?' is irrelevant. It only takes one.

Yes, a nut splitter can separate those pivots.

But a normal hacksaw can get through the TiGr main strap in less than a minute.

Srsly? Through Ti?

For sure. See Bosnian bill's review here: https://youtu.be/WZ0UCzi0Tpg
Hacksaw action starts at about 14 minutes.

That's unexpectedly disappointing.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I'd like to see that test repeated in the street, including the picking the plastic off step, the amount the vice appeared to be moving while he ratcheted up the force on the plates seemed to be quite a bit.

In most cases you'd probably be quicker attacking what it's attached to with a grinder and at sold secure gold you're only supposedly giving 5 mins for someone to realize its not  the bike owner trying to recover their own bike and see them long enough to be able to give the polis some form of description.

If you don't have insurance it's kind of pointless...

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk

An interesting and potentially useful street test would be around intervention. If you spot a bike being stolen, how can you best intervene and how can you encourage others to intervene with you? Given that solo intervention is scary and calling the police results in a logged phone call at best.

[Kim]

An interesting and potentially useful street test would be around intervention. If you spot a bike being stolen, how can you best intervene and how can you encourage others to intervene with you? Given that solo intervention is scary and calling the police results in a logged phone call at best.

I called the police from a safe distance when I found someone attacking a bike lock with a hacksaw.  As it was within the jurisdiction of the Bullring's private army, the police operator - evidently disappointed when they realised I was talking about a pedal cycle rather than a motorcycle - quickly passed it on, and a several of security goons descended from multiple directions to ask pointed questions while I was still on the phone.

So yeah, might be more than a logged call.

(Of course, I have a cyclist's dislike for bike thieves.)

[Jurek]

Loads of lock testing videos are be a bit misleading though, especially the ones from the manufacturers!

In the lock picking ones, they first practice picking the lock, maybe for hours including disassembley, before making the video which shows them picking the lock in a few seconds. In the case of some front door locks, they even turn the lock upside down to make it easier.

In the ones where the lock is held firmly in a vice, if the lock was on a bike, either the bike would be damaged or they wouldn't have been able to apply the same force as easily.

If it's for a very expensive ebike, I would get the heaviest and thickest D lock (ie most "secure") and only lock the frame and use nuts or non-qr skewers for the wheels as I think the wheels would be less likely to be stolen than the whole bike. For locking both wheels and the frame, I would use a heavy and thick chain to lock the frame and the back wheel and a second D lock for the front.

Since it's an ebike, perhaps use locks designed for motorbikes that lock the bike to an object.

My bold.
Could you please post a link to where you've seen that.
Most locks are really easy to pick.
I think that people would be shocked to learn how easy it is to pick the majority of locks.
I bought a set of picks. (For picking as a recreational activity, you understand - if you are breaking in and entering, there are invariably easier ways of doing so than picking at the lock).
They were delivered to my work address.
The first lock I tried was a filing cabinet. It didn't take much longer to open than it would with a key.
There's something like 80-odd picks in the set.
I can open most cylinder locks with one of four 'favoutite' picks.
There's a couple of people on this forum who have used my picks to open locks in seconds.
It isn't until you get into the realm of Banham, Ingersoll  or Abloy locks (other locks are available), that there's any significant challenge to picking locks.

[quixoticgeek]

My bold.
Could you please post a link to where you've seen that.
Most locks are really easy to pick.
I think that people would be shocked to learn how easy it is to pick the majority of locks.
I bought a set of picks. (For picking as a recreational activity, you understand - if you are breaking in and entering, there are invariably easier ways of doing so than picking at the lock).
They were delivered to my work address.
The first lock I tried was a filing cabinet. It didn't take much longer to open than it would do with a key.

Yep, the standard wafer locks on things like lockers, filing cabinets desks etc... are ludicrously simple to pick, most give to a simple racking attack.

There's something like 80-odd picks in the set.
I can open most cylinder locks with one of four 'favoutite' picks.
There's a couple of people on this forum who have used my picks to open locks in seconds.
It isn't until you get into the realm of Banham, Ingersoll  or Abloy locks (other locks are available), that there's any significant challenge to picking locks.

The cylinder in the Abus Bordo 6500 X Plus is the X plus granit core, this is a disk detainer core with 7 disks. These have false gates, and are not easy to pick with your classic picks in that 80 pick set. You need a proper disk detainer pick. These are not cheap, and most are actually crap, to the point that LPL and BosnianBill actually made their own improved design and are in the process of working with a manufacturer to bring it to market.

I'm a lock picking beginner, I picked my first lock using my ear rings[1], I'm not great at it, I'm still learning. I've not yet build up to complicated key ways or locks with spools, serrated pins, etc...

Btw, as for blind picking, I present you a somewhat relevant LPL video on it:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAyTv64YkTI


I'd like for Abus to bring out another couple of locks with the X Plus core, specifically a "nurses lock" style, that goes through the rear wheel and is defacto standard on most Dutch bikes, and euro cylinder style. Why? So I can get them all keyed Alike, and just carry one key for everything...

J


[1] https://www.tindie.com/products/safadancer/lock-pick-earrings/

[Jurek]

My bold.
Could you please post a link to where you've seen that.
Most locks are really easy to pick.
I think that people would be shocked to learn how easy it is to pick the majority of locks.
I bought a set of picks. (For picking as a recreational activity, you understand - if you are breaking in and entering, there are invariably easier ways of doing so than picking at the lock).
They were delivered to my work address.
The first lock I tried was a filing cabinet. It didn't take much longer to open than it would do with a key.

Yep, the standard wafer locks on things like lockers, filing cabinets desks etc... are ludicrously simple to pick, most give to a simple racking attack.

There's something like 80-odd picks in the set.
I can open most cylinder locks with one of four 'favoutite' picks.
There's a couple of people on this forum who have used my picks to open locks in seconds.
It isn't until you get into the realm of Banham, Ingersoll  or Abloy locks (other locks are available), that there's any significant challenge to picking locks.

The cylinder in the Abus Bordo 6500 X Plus is the X plus granit core, this is a disk detainer core with 7 disks. These have false gates, and are not easy to pick with your classic picks in that 80 pick set. You need a proper disk detainer pick. These are not cheap, and most are actually crap, to the point that LPL and BosnianBill actually made their own improved design and are in the process of working with a manufacturer to bring it to market.

I'm a lock picking beginner, I picked my first lock using my ear rings[1], I'm not great at it, I'm still learning. I've not yet build up to complicated key ways or locks with spools, serrated pins, etc...

Btw, as for blind picking, I present you a somewhat relevant LPL video on it:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAyTv64YkTI


I'd like for Abus to bring out another couple of locks with the X Plus core, specifically a "nurses lock" style, that goes through the rear wheel and is defacto standard on most Dutch bikes, and euro cylinder style. Why? So I can get them all keyed Alike, and just carry one key for everything...

J


[1] https://www.tindie.com/products/safadancer/lock-pick-earrings/

I'm struggling to argue with any of that.
My picks deal with cylinder locks more than adequately.
I'm aware of how shite the disc detainer tools are, and am in the process of modifying mine using Mr.Dremel, to bring it up to serviceable standard.
ETA The false gates on the Abus are up there with the Banham, Abloy etc.
Quality stuff.

ETFA - Oh, and welcome to the world of recreational lock picking.

ETEFA - Richard Feynman got me into this, years ago.