Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: shack on 04 September, 2019, 04:58:09 pm
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Afternoon all,
I've got some poorly performing pads on my old tourer, so looking for some well priced upgrades.
The front brake is the same dual pivot long drop (maybe Sora?) as the rear, and has the oe pads without an issue.
The rear is well adjusted with pretty new/ low miles but never anything as like stopping power. The wheels are the same age and condition (old Mavic ma2's)
So has anyone been blown away by their pads, and willing to share?
Thanks in advance
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Starter for 10: Koolstop Salmon
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^This.
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Blocks.
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DiscoBrakes. Cheap and work fine.
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Blocks.
yes.
In my mind 'Brake Pads' are for disc brakes. I am happy to refer to the removable part of many brake blocks as an 'insert'.
FWIW I may be mistaken in this but I have always assumed that implicit in the usage pf 'pad' (as a noun) was the idea of something that is thinner than it is wide; thus 'pad' seems like a daft way of referring to most brake blocks.
cheers
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Thanks for the cool stop salmon recommendations, and apologies for pad/ block faux Pas, like many here I have a number of bikes and most are pads but this old girl is indeed still rocking blocks.
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Koolstop salmon
Squeal like a PM at PMQ (without a pig), decent in the wet. Wear quite quickly, but worth the wear rate for the improved stopping in the wet.
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if the rear brake is similar to, but nothing like as good as the front, this is a pretty fair sign that the rear brake cable needs replacement/fettling. Either that or the rim is perhaps subtly contaminated with chain lube.
cheers
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i use koolstop standard (black) on one of the bikes, they have lasted very long time, braking is very good in dry conditions, so so in the wet. rubber compound is quiet and does not eat the brake tracks.
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The dual-compound black/salmon Koolstops seem more consistent than the pure salmon, but I believe those are a V-brake thing.
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I use the koolstop dual compound most of the time.
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Following a recommendation from Brucey, I've been pretty "blown away" by how good Swissstop Flash Pro BXP
pads blocks are (they look expensive, but are sold in packs of 4, not 2), now have these on my Hewitt Cheviot tourer, my Brompton, and now the Campagnolo-friendly Race Pro BXP version on my new Mercian. They're very good in both wet and dry and run quite clean. Are are these not the right size/shape for your needs?
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Shimano disagree with you and say shoe.
But I associate Shoe with Drum brakes and the brake option of last resort.
(https://static.evanscycles.com/production/components/brakes/product-image/Original/shimano-dura-ace-9000-r55c4-cartridge-brake-pads-na-EV202129-9999-1.jpg)
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But I associate Shoe with Drum brakes and the brake option of last resort.
;D
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well shimano are (not for the first time) wrong. And everyone is entitled to their own opinions, no matter how aberrant they might be.
cheers
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The wikiwotsica definition for bicycles is that the shoe is the carrier of the block.
Though that's likely to be as accurate...
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You put your brake shoes on your brake feet. So what are your brake feet?
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I tend to use either Koolstop or Swisstop 'rubbery rectangles that insert into my slightly curved but basically rectangular holders that attach to the rest of my mechanical speed retardation devices'
I've found both brands to be excellent performers in the wet and dry, and wear levels are acceptable, there are subtle differences between the exact models though so do check whihc ones you're buying.
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I'm going to be the voice of contrariness here. I've used Koolstop salmon and found them good but not amazing. I've also used Aztec and Swiss Stop. All are very good in the dry but none are really that impressive in the wet. Swiss Stop perhaps last best but also cost most. I haven't found they squeal, nor do the Aztecs.
As for the pads, blocks or shoes controversy, how about "vehicle retardation friction material"? ;)
Ed: amedias and I were sharing brain waves...
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All rim brakes are shit in the wet, all of them. It's just a matter of anticipating that when you ride, which is a lot easier if you haven't been riding something with disc brakes too recently.
Squealing is as much about the rim, the brake and the bike it's attached to as the pad material. I've got a KoolStop all-weather pedestrian warning system on the front of my Dawes, and the identical one on the back hardly makes a sound.
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Swissstop Blue were the best I tried. I've gone disc-only now, though, because:
All rim brakes are shit in the wet, all of them.
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I've just given my 20 year old rims a good clean with the Mavic block; once I've tried them in the wet I'll report back....
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I like BBB TechStop (Tristop for V's), as good as Swisstop Salmon and usually to be found cheaper.
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A silly question I think but, I guess that the cartridge pad holders are not universal ie, my koolstop holders will only take koolstop pads?
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A silly question I think but, I guess that the cartridge pad holders are not universal ie, my koolstop holders will only take koolstop pads?
I think there are only two patterns on anything made ~this century~, Campag and Shimano. Someone with detailed knowledge might be able to correct this.
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The KoolStop V-brake holders I have on my Dawes are very different from the Shimano-style road ones on my Brompton (which currently sport KoolStop blocks).
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Koolstop Salmon were the best pads around a few years back, but not anymore. Swiss top Flash are way better in the wet.
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It could be only in my head, but i feel that cleaning the rims improves the braking a bit. +1 for Koolstop salmon.
Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
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It could be only in my head, but i feel that cleaning the rims improves the braking a bit.
Certainly does if they've got anything remotely oily on them (diesel spill, chain lube, etc).
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A silly question I think but, I guess that the cartridge pad holders are not universal ie, my koolstop holders will only take koolstop pads?
I think there are only two patterns on anything made ~this century~, Campag and Shimano. Someone with detailed knowledge might be able to correct this.
in (short) 'road' inserts this is pretty much true. SRAM uses the same fitting as shimano and most aftermarket inserts. Campag is different to that and I believe there are one or two aftermarket brands which use the same pattern as campag.
MTB brakes and some cantis use a long 70mm insert often called an 'XTR pattern' insert. These are all meant to be interchangeable and mostly, they are.
cheers
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A silly question I think but, I guess that the cartridge pad holders are not universal ie, my koolstop holders will only take koolstop pads?
I think there are only two patterns on anything made ~this century~, Campag and Shimano. Someone with detailed knowledge might be able to correct this.
in (short) 'road' inserts this is pretty much true. SRAM uses the same fitting as shimano and most aftermarket inserts. Campag is different to that and I believe there are one or two aftermarket brands which use the same pattern as campag.
MTB brakes and some cantis use a long 70mm insert often called an 'XTR pattern' insert. These are all meant to be interchangeable and mostly, they are
From 2016 (2017 in the case of Centaur callipers) Campagnolo brake callipers also now use the same insert shape as Shimano/SRAM (with the screw), so newer Campagnolo brake pad holders can use Swissstop Flash ProbBXP inserts, older ones the Campagnolo-specific Race Pro BXP
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A silly question I think but, I guess that the cartridge pad holders are not universal ie, my koolstop holders will only take koolstop pads?
I think there are only two patterns on anything made ~this century~, Campag and Shimano. Someone with detailed knowledge might be able to correct this.
in (short) 'road' inserts this is pretty much true. SRAM uses the same fitting as shimano and most aftermarket inserts. Campag is different to that and I believe there are one or two aftermarket brands which use the same pattern as campag.
MTB brakes and some cantis use a long 70mm insert often called an 'XTR pattern' insert. These are all meant to be interchangeable and mostly, they are
From 2016 (2017 in the case of Centaur callipers) Campagnolo brake callipers also now use the same insert shape as Shimano/SRAM (with the screw), so newer Campagnolo brake pad holders can use Swissstop Flash ProbBXP inserts, older ones the Campagnolo-specific Race Pro BXP
Not strictly accurate.
Campag SR, RE and CH brakes have historically all come with Campag fitting shoes to accept Campag fitting pads.
The pad design was modified to move away from a strictly held-in-by-friction design, to being retained by a clip in 2012. You can use the friction retained pads in the shoes designed for a clip but I'd not advise the reverse - it's not that the blocks will come out under braking (assuming the shoes are fitted the right way round), it's that if you pull the brakes on and pull the bike backwards it's possible (though, TBH, not that likely) that you'll pull the pads out.
The same was true of Campagnolo entry level brakes (excepting some older brakes that had a flirtation with integrated fixing bolts, and some of the TT and Flat-Bar brakes which had their own pad varations), until 2015 when Campagnolo launched the "un-ranged" brake, basically a lower-cost Chorus 2015 unit. These brakes are generally now matched to Potenza and Centaur groups (and occasionally, as the cut-price merchants see the opportunity to <shock> make a profit on what they sell this way), Chorus groups. The pad holders are Shimano style, with a screw to retain a Shimano-type block.
The pad holders on the current Chorus brakes are likewise Shimano style.
SR and RE brakes are unchanged in this respect and use a Campagnolo spring-clip retained pad, as do the DM brakes.
As a generality, where users are running Shimano rims, we recommend Shimano pads. Likewise Campag with Campag (Campag compound for Shimano holders can be had - BR-CA500 - which helps out all the Shimano and SRAM riders running Fulcrum or Campag wheels), Miche with Miche, Mavic Exalith with Mavic Exalith etc. Pad compounds are developed by wheel makers in tandem with the rim materials and generally they are a good match in terms of wet and dry performance, as well as in terms of maintaining the condition of the brake tracks. In each manufacturer's case, they may well have a specific pad recommendation from within their range, for a specific rim material or treatment.
We see people assuming that (say) just because Mavic Exalith pads are made by SwissStop, they can run a SwissStop pad of similar appearance - this is not necessarily the best pad for the job and can compromise braking as well as rim wear rates. This reflects the fact that OE product is often different to after-market product. At the Campag Service Centre, we've seen Campag alloy rims destroyed by third party pads as well as Shimano rims (yes, we see those in our workshops too) damaged by third-party pad compounds that are too hard. Likewise we've seen too-soft pads disintegrate as a result of heating - not to mention the much-vexed problem of inappropriate pads being used on carbon rims with very negative results for the rims.
A few years ago I was at a wheel manufacturer (not, this time, Campag) where after market and incorrect OE pad materials were being lab-tested on alloy and carbon rims from the manufacturer concerned. Some of the results were positively scary and made me very glad that I wasn't trying to ride some of the tested combinations down a mountain, or in heavy traffic ... the maker's own pads performed flawlessly, even up to circumstances that produced 300-325C at the pad-rim interface (not as uncommon as you might think).