Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: andygates on 17 February, 2014, 04:06:50 pm

Title: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 17 February, 2014, 04:06:50 pm
Distaff to the lifting kite thread, I'm toying with getting a little quad.  Kites need you to have a friend and I'm Billy No-Mates, plus I often want to take photos of things too close for kitey interaction (buildings, cliffs, Verity's boobs).

Anyone played with quads enough to have an opinion?  A kit like this one (http://www.helipal.com/product_info.php?currency=GBP&products_id=10841&gclid=CJzeqv_A07wCFfPItAodsh8Alw) looks like it'll match up with my existing Futaba r/c (from the kite rig).
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 17 February, 2014, 04:30:39 pm
Check out the parot drone. A work colleague messes around with one a lot.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: matthew on 17 February, 2014, 04:42:35 pm
Distaff to the lifting kite thread, I'm toying with getting a little quad.  Kites need you to have a friend and I'm Billy No-Mates, plus I often want to take photos of things too close for kitey interaction (buildings, cliffs, Verity's boobs).

Anyone played with quads enough to have an opinion?  A kit like this one (http://www.helipal.com/product_info.php?currency=GBP&products_id=10841&gclid=CJzeqv_A07wCFfPItAodsh8Alw) looks like it'll match up with my existing Futaba r/c (from the kite rig).

Oi

Why the interest in my younger sister's cleavage   >:( Plus I don't think you are the man she's marrying in a couple of months.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 17 February, 2014, 05:02:55 pm
Parrot looks sexy, a bit more than I have in my jamjar right now... limited to wifi range, though? Hm.

I meant Verity the giant naked lady in Ilfracombe.  Unless that's still your sister. ;)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 17 February, 2014, 05:13:27 pm
Not played enough yet, but have a toy one and have read around. They are difficult to control, a learning experience. Don't be taken in by the YouTube videos showing them going through letterbox holes - it is quite a learned skill.

A gimbal for the camera is usually advised, although newer quads seem to be more stable.
GPS used for getting it home if contact is lost, and for compensating for wind is pretty useful too.
Battery life or a spare battery (my toy one lasts some 7 minutes)
They break. Probably not too much of a problem for a practical person like you andy
Small ones catch the wind more
FPV at least lets you see what you are taking photos/video of, but usually has a WiFi connection back to a smartphone on your rig.

WRT the no-mates - you are advised to have a second person, to spot other flying things, trees, wires, police etc! Plus taking photos from the air brings you into CAA licensing territory.

A bit here (http://www.buzzflyer.co.uk/aerial-photo-uav-fpv-law.asp)
Plus interesting stuff at the BMFA (http://www.bmfa.org/Info/ModelFlyingTypes/FirstPersonView(FPV)/tabid/256/Default.aspx)

My guess is that (until they become so widespread that they are a nuisance, or you are invading privacy) limited hobby use will go unmolested. They've been used to monitor police action in demonstrations - there is a youtube of one being shot down somewhere.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 17 February, 2014, 07:27:10 pm
Interesting stuff. 

FPV exceeds my budget *ever*.

I note that the Parrots have a thriving software community full of sickness like autonomous GPS waypointing.  Over the Bosphorous. That's very Byron. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: clarion on 17 February, 2014, 07:51:00 pm
The Parrots do look very cool.  Though I am a biiiiiig kite fan, I'd have to admit that this has much more potential as a camera platform.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: uphillbothways on 17 February, 2014, 08:52:10 pm
Plus taking photos from the air brings you into CAA licensing territory.

Only for commercial purposes. As far as the CAA are concerned, a quadrotor or other aerial photography platform being operated by a hobbyist is no different from any other model aircraft and is subject to the same rules. As long as you abide by the regulations as set out in CAP 658 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658%204%20Edition%20Amend%201%20June%202013.pdf), you require no form of licensing or approval. If you're using one in the line of business, then it becomes an Unmanned Aircraft System subject to the regulatory regime set out in CAP 722 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.pdf). UAS of under 20kg require no registration or airworthiness approval, but the pilot does need a suitable qualification (BNUC/RPQ) and to apply for operating permission when flying close to people or property.

Kites are unregulated by the CAA so long as they are used outside of controlled airspace and below 300 feet.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: rogerzilla on 18 February, 2014, 05:57:22 pm
Andy proves yet again that the driver of all new consumer technology is pr0n.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 19 February, 2014, 07:32:12 pm
Alas, silencing the SCREAMING BEES would take too much weight, so no good for peeping tommery.

I'm pretty sold on the Parrot, actually.  Time to see how much I got paid during January's on-call hellscape.   8)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Euan Uzami on 19 February, 2014, 11:12:43 pm
Distaff to the lifting kite thread, I'm toying with getting a little quad.  Kites need you to have a friend and I'm Billy No-Mates, plus I often want to take photos of things too close for kitey interaction (buildings, cliffs, Verity's boobs).

Anyone played with quads enough to have an opinion?  A kit like this one (http://www.helipal.com/product_info.php?currency=GBP&products_id=10841&gclid=CJzeqv_A07wCFfPItAodsh8Alw) looks like it'll match up with my existing Futaba r/c (from the kite rig).
A friend of mine's website: www.3flite.co.uk
He's only 15 but has put a lot of videos on YouTube about quadcopters and the like and is extremely knowledgeable about them. He flies them (and planes) around with go pros attached. Was showing me one today he's planning on selling but not sure if available yet.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: fuaran on 20 February, 2014, 11:44:31 am
How good is the camera on the Parrot drone? Some reviews say it is pretty poor image quality.
It seems people have tried attaching GoPros to the Parrot, but it struggles with the extra weight.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 27 February, 2014, 07:57:28 am
It's a bit like a meh phone cam: on days with good light it's okay, rez isn't astounding. The interesting factor is the viewpoint.

Looking around, there's a Mobius HD Action Cam which is basically a non-waterproof matchbox-sized Gopro-type thing.  Video at various rates, interval stills, wifi.  At 40g naked and about £80, the AR will have no problem with that.

...of course, I've got to fix the motor I broke fixing the pingfuckit that pinged on first flight, first.  Tinkering and fettling and possible money pit? Sounds like a bloody bicycle.   ;D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Wombat on 27 February, 2014, 12:27:08 pm
Hmmm, GoPro's a bit heavier than that, I think.  As I've already got a Gopro (which is a very nice thing indeed), my issue is not so much "what can I get aerial pics/videos with?" but more "what can lift my GoPro?"  I'm still being tempted by an RC truck to chase the dog round the park with.  Childish, I know, but hey, I'm only 61...   truck, kite, quadcopter, too much toy temptation. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 27 February, 2014, 01:15:11 pm
The canonical answer to that is a DJI Phantom. But get a toy quad first and learn to fly that.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 27 February, 2014, 01:18:26 pm
wot he said

and don't fly the toy into a puddle  >:(
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 28 February, 2014, 08:28:22 am
Quadcopter used for some footage here. Plus, at 3:41, the biggest arse in the world!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26372277
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 02 March, 2014, 07:41:05 pm
Yup, that built-in camera is crap.  :(

I've given it a clean and will try to focus it better, but it's not good for much.  I've just ordered the Mobius HD.  :D

It's a hoot to fly, thobut.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7390/12886306603_b385f67418.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andygates/12886306603/)
Buzz buzz! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andygates/12886306603/) by andygates (http://www.flickr.com/people/andygates/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 05 March, 2014, 10:39:56 pm
Mobius is nice. Well-behaved, the size of a matchbox and 40g. Will try to fly it tomorrow :D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: frankly frankie on 07 March, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
(http://4.static.img-dpreview.com/files/w/TS590x442?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dpreview.com%2Ffiles%2Fnews%2F6757464567%2Fhelicam.jpg&signature=v4iQuYyTGWuHgQJCBIRxmUsPo0s%3D&v=2756)
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/03/06/the-photography-show-2014-tidbits-from-the-show-floor/19 (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/03/06/the-photography-show-2014-tidbits-from-the-show-floor/19)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 09 March, 2014, 07:52:56 pm
Very nice!  I think a secondhand Parrot comes in about one arm of that beast.  *envies*

Here's a couple of the nicest things I've got from the Mobius: First a framegrab (using VLC) from about 35m (100ft):

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7396/13040965444_fe69b7b2a2.jpg) (http://flic.kr/p/kSomFN)

And with the timelapse snapping every second, this is a full-frame still shot:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3004/13040989994_43504cc4d9.jpg) (http://flic.kr/p/kSotZ5)

This one's at about 20m, and I've used Photoshop to undo the fisheye distortion and crop a little:

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7383/13040947304_99ab4396d0.jpg) (http://flic.kr/p/kSogi3)

The rig still has plenty of jello (worn and crashed transmission makes wobbles which make stretchy-image distortion); will be fettling and looking to play in post.  The tiny payload weight and lack of a controllable gimbal makes this less useful for video than for stills.  Each of these flights has 250-500 shots, the traditional thing with funny-location shooting.

By crikey the auto-hover is useful.  Hands-off and let it right itself.  I'm hardly even crashing any more!   :smug:
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 19 March, 2014, 08:05:57 pm
...and he's gone and parked it in a tree.  :facepalm:

This is the r/c equivalent of a clipless fall at the lights.  Nearly twenty metres up in thick shrubbery invisible to the ground and needing climbfriends to rescue. Bah!

I'm ever so glad I didn't park a big lump of money in this tree.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 20 March, 2014, 05:51:46 am
Interesting stuff. 

FPV exceeds my budget *ever*.

I note that the Parrots have a thriving software community full of sickness like autonomous GPS waypointing.  Over the Bosphorous. That's very Byron. :thumbsup:

You are aware of hobbyking.com, right? One of my friends is into FPV big time (He just got the Fatshark goggles and has reached peak-geek) It can be done for a reasonable budget and on quite small.

Also, this frame is not a bad place to start:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__49725__Q450_V3_Glass_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_450mm_Integrated_PCB_Version.html

I parked one of my scratch-built planes in some power-wires :(..only about $30 worth of electronics, but it was flying really well, so that sucked. Went back a few days later and it was gone..
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: clarion on 20 March, 2014, 11:19:13 am
On Micklegate Stray, my best boomerang throw ever was halted by a Very Tall Tree with no low branches :'(
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: toontra on 20 March, 2014, 02:59:08 pm
This was in the Bath local rag today:

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Sightseeing-clouds/story-20831074-detail/story.html (http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Sightseeing-clouds/story-20831074-detail/story.html)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 22 March, 2014, 07:09:19 pm
Welp, that's gone.  Either it's utterly invisible, or it came down after Wednesday lunchtime and has since done a runner; either way with a few days heavy weather over it, it'll be a bit of heavy repair to fix. :'(

Shopping time!  :thumbsup:

...the camera I'll replace immediately; I was so impressed with it (and they're on sale at fifty quid, and there's a special this weekend (code 5%offyay!)).  I want to kite that camera as well as droning it. 
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Pingu on 22 March, 2014, 11:12:12 pm
Have you checked Chinese satellite imagery?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 23 March, 2014, 04:41:29 pm
I asked, but they didn't respond in case it gave away their capabilities.  :facepalm:

What I did just do was hook up with another local flier who took his quad up round and over the tree to have a look.  It's a DJI Phantom, and now I have brutal upgrade fever because it's an absolute peach.  Finding would be a restoration job now anyway... marf.

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: clarion on 23 March, 2014, 09:46:09 pm
Welp, that's gone. 

Oh bugger.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 23 March, 2014, 09:54:44 pm
Local quad flier did a blinder today:

(http://i.imgur.com/vWylk9G.jpg)

So, it IS still up there.  Light the Mission Impossible fuse!  But his quad was so sweet, and mine might be so weather-damaged, that the upgrade fever still applies.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 23 March, 2014, 10:09:13 pm
Ready the kitten trebuchet!
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: clarion on 24 March, 2014, 07:39:07 pm
Looks like a job for Thunderbird 2!
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: air dancer on 24 March, 2014, 07:57:40 pm
Tried the local firestation?

It'll make a change from fire, smoke and rescuing dippy cats.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 24 March, 2014, 09:02:04 pm
The bloke who took those shots has gone and parked HIS on a nearby roof now.  :facepalm:

Quads: lose 'em and crash 'em.  The takeaway seems to be "learn on something little and cheap" before strapping sexy cameras to a grand of aerial strimmer.  So I'm getting a Hubsan X4 on payday.  :smug:
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: clarion on 25 March, 2014, 08:04:12 am
It's an intermediate stage.  Soon, they will be sentient, and able to take over the world, subjugating us puny humans.  But, for now, they are like toddlers who think they can walk, but fall over and bang their head when they let go of the sofa.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Vince on 25 March, 2014, 08:12:50 am

(http://i.imgur.com/vWylk9G.jpg)

Not conclusive, it could be a 777 wing as far as I can see.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 29 March, 2014, 03:29:06 pm
Well, I picked a trainer micro quad and tiny camera and holy crap, the Parrot was doing a LOT of the heavy skill lifting. 

(The Parrot has an "altitude" control where regular RC has a "throttle"; tell it to go "up" and it goes up and tries to hold that spot, applying and lifting throttle automagically.  It is truly toyishly easy to control.  And now I shall crash this little fella a dozen more times...)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 31 March, 2014, 07:41:49 pm
I kinda sorta hired a crane.   ;D

Regular cherry pickers are too small by half.  Turns out there are big-enough ones, but you're never hiring one for silly use unless you luck out on their work schedule.  So, I've been frantically filling out paperwork and tomorrow an Obliviax SkyTyrant 9000* comes along to EAT THAT TREE.



* Iveco SkyKing, I think. 22m arm on a 5t flatbed. Take that, shrubbery.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 31 March, 2014, 09:10:09 pm
I've been in a very big cherrypicker. They sway quite a lot at full extension and in even a mild breeze.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 01 April, 2014, 08:58:31 pm
He found it!  :thumbsup:

(http://i.imgur.com/wn9WeXX.jpg)

Looks like the main board shorted at the power terminals with water ingress (there is no remote power-off, and shutdown power still has plenty of juice), but the rest is okay.  It's all buried in rice for a couple of days, like the biggest ipod ever.

Meanwhile I'm playing with the tiny!quad, which will carry a keychain camera but is really just for dicking about, er, learning flight skills.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 03 April, 2014, 07:25:38 pm
It's alive!  ;D

The shorting-goo scrubbed off, and the thing booted up just fine.  Most quads are modular because they take damage.  So I took it all apart and stuck it in a huge tub of rice:

(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/13607313875_e1a6269286.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mJr3kV)

And two days later, it flies!

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7333/13607338123_e85db65a4e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mJraxZ)

So back to photography.  And next payday, a GPS to make it hold station when it's too high for the bellycam.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: frankly frankie on 14 April, 2014, 06:46:08 pm
We need a smaller camera ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26081448 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26081448)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 22 April, 2014, 10:37:38 pm
Wheat happens when you send a dronecam into a fireworks display:

http://petapixel.com/2014/04/22/slow-motion-aerial-video-takes-inside-fireworks-show/
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Tewdric on 22 April, 2014, 11:04:58 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Andrij on 02 May, 2014, 09:51:05 pm
Looking for a new camera?  Seen what the LOHAN team has been testing (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/02/lohan_centrcam_flight/?page=1)? 
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 02 May, 2014, 11:20:01 pm
That looks like the rig that went up with Heston Blumenthal's potato.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 12 May, 2014, 10:30:26 pm
The AR Drone 3 - aka Bebop - is being previewed.  Probably priced between the DJI and the Drone 2.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/11/5707764/parrot-bebop-drone-ar-drone-promises-long-range-missions-and-clear-video
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: clarion on 13 May, 2014, 10:19:51 am
That looks ultracool.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 03 January, 2015, 10:05:23 am
I am sooooo tempted

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/torquing/zano-autonomous-intelligent-swarming-nano-drone

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 12 January, 2015, 06:03:08 pm
I am sooooo tempted

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/torquing/zano-autonomous-intelligent-swarming-nano-drone

Brushed motors?  They promise the world and are using brushed motors?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 16 January, 2015, 04:16:53 pm
where does it say they are brushed? I couldn't find reference to that.

Could be to save costs - brushless controllers are more expensive.

I'm trying to persuade my employers to put some money into the kickstarter, since it is one of our microprocessor cores in the copter.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 18 January, 2015, 07:45:06 am
Because the motors shown in the images are brushed motors?.
Also, no amount of flight stabilization is going to make this thing stable outdoors...it's simply too small.
In their 'demos' it pretends that there's some kind of gimbal on the camera, which there also clearly isn't...and the 10-15min flight time promise sounds very very optimistic. Most micro-quads in that size, without camera or GPS gets you 4-5 minutes.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: MikeFromLFE on 18 January, 2015, 05:19:03 pm
I've spent the day with a local UAV filming company with a view to going on their payroll as a casual "safety man" for while they are filming.
Blimey! It's a whole new language and severe geekery!
(If I've got it right they are fling a DJI S900 UAS, with a 4k camera)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: tonycollinet on 18 January, 2015, 11:08:55 pm
Ah - you need one of these :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnJcZfsVLAQ

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 19 January, 2015, 12:42:16 am
Yes, that looks good.

I think that when it becomes mainstream and cheap it will also become illegal without a licence.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Mr Larrington on 19 January, 2015, 01:01:57 pm
Ex B-i-L is currently in China learning all about these things before becoming European Chief Marketroid for $CHINESE_MANUFACTURER.  They are letting him take $HELICHOPTER "home" at the weekends so they can't be that difficult to drive ;D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 08 February, 2015, 04:59:50 pm
The local drone pushers are trying to convince me to spring for an Inspire.  I suppose there's a certain balance to be had in owning flying toys that cost more than your car, as well as bikes, but no.

Anybody had hands-on with a Bebop?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andygates on 13 July, 2015, 09:03:02 pm
Welp, the old parrot was finally crashed to flinders and sold to make glue.

Budget is for a Bebop.  Just need to breathe deeply and find a lens protector...
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 15 July, 2015, 06:59:02 pm
You should be able to pick up a DJI Phantom used for cheap now that the Inspire is out..or alternatively get a 3DR Solo.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 16 July, 2015, 08:52:39 pm
I'd quite like one of these:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/16/drone-firing-handgun-video-youtube
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 17 July, 2015, 10:31:23 am
I'd quite like one of these:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/16/drone-firing-handgun-video-youtube

The crazy Russian always takes it further

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU)

In all seriousness though it can't be long before some radical straps 500g of explosive and some nails to one then flies it into Dwning Street from a pickup truck a few streets away.

I don't see how you can guard against it (unless you flood the area constantly with a jamming signal).

Quadcopters are going to be such a pain in the arse though, as prevalent as SKY dishes on every estate in the country.

In fact I'm thinking of applying for a patent on a "No Drones/Quad-copters" signs.  They are sure to be omnipresent at any public event soon.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 17 July, 2015, 01:33:07 pm
I'd quite like one of these:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jul/16/drone-firing-handgun-video-youtube

The crazy Russian always takes it further

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU)

The crazy Russian is in fact an American called Kyle Myers and that video is clearly a hoax.   The one on the Guardian website might also be a hoax, but it does at least look like it *could* be real...
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 17 July, 2015, 07:42:08 pm


In all seriousness though it can't be long before some radical straps 500g of explosive and some nails to one then flies it into Dwning Street from a pickup truck a few streets away.

Thing is, you have to maintain line-of-sight to do so...or at the very least not have anything obstruct the control & video signal...and in built-up areas, relying on GPS may not be possible, so even autonomous flight would be doubtful. There's inertia navigation modules out there, but the known ones require export license, so it'll require jumping through a few hoops to get there.


Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 17 July, 2015, 08:08:50 pm
Quote
remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 20 July, 2015, 08:50:21 am
Quote
remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always.

Exactly.  I can't see how security will be able to deal effectively with this sort of Quadcopter.

First Person View (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzVOrx87ekA)

They are flown via a live video stream to the pilot's goggles.  I've heard it's very much an out of body experience (and I think I need a go).

Nice Gaff.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 02 August, 2015, 05:58:33 am
Finally getting some decent results with my surveying drone:
(http://i.imgur.com/RAw13q7.jpg)

It wasn't flying as nicely as desired, but I finally got the camera trigger working decently, so this is a huge step forward. The autopilot records when the camera is triggered and stores the GPS position, which is then later added to the EXIF data, which then greatly increases the speed and accuracy of the photogrammetry process.

It's taken about 6 months to get to this stage, so this is a huge milestone for me and it may enable me to just get the last month or so before harvest to do 'real' tests with.
Next up is converting the camera to IR,so I can do NDVI processing.

To celebrate this, I am now also building a freestyle/racing quad, so I can doing stuff like this :
https://youtu.be/FV-zV1Ddxmo?t=1m2s

:D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 03 August, 2015, 10:48:00 pm
Oh my my

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lg5YRMJY6I

from http://www.peacefulcentury.net/entertainment/a-google-engineer-just-made-a-remote-control-storm-trooper-speeder-bike-and-its-awesome/
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 12 August, 2015, 03:55:49 am
My new racing/freestyle drone:
(http://i.imgur.com/lhvtDXMl.jpg)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 12 August, 2015, 12:27:43 pm
Whoa!
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 03 September, 2015, 09:05:30 pm
http://www.ukdroneshow.com/

Julian's dad is talking about a trip up to Brum for this.  I"m geeky enough that I fancy it too (although I don't have a drone and Gods alone know that I don't need a new toy-habit).

Anyone fancy it?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 03 September, 2015, 10:42:17 pm
sees that the diary appears mostly empty...
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: geraldc on 03 September, 2015, 10:48:30 pm
http://digg.com/video/manned-drone-multicopter
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: tonycollinet on 04 September, 2015, 07:31:43 am
That is not a drone - and it's not a quadcopter.


Also - 2:20 - wheeeeeeee
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 07 September, 2015, 08:46:50 am
So, we had a bit of fun today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRw4TAkBcio
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 07 September, 2015, 09:27:41 am
...then you did this (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34155773)?

 ;D
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 07 September, 2015, 08:31:14 pm
No, we didn't have enough beer for that...
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andrewc on 17 September, 2015, 07:07:50 pm
The local crims are beating Amazon by using drones for their deliveries http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gangs-using-small-drones-fly-10078354 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/gangs-using-small-drones-fly-10078354)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: David Martin on 17 September, 2015, 11:35:38 pm
This *is* the drone you are looking for https://www.facebook.com/authorjonacuff/videos/10150557409164950/

or https://youtu.be/GRtXd1eiH-s

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 24 November, 2015, 08:17:51 pm
I am sooooo tempted

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/torquing/zano-autonomous-intelligent-swarming-nano-drone

Well, that was predictable.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34858171
Hope you didn't back it.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 03 March, 2016, 02:46:08 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35712471
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 28 May, 2016, 03:14:20 pm
I wondered about trying filming with a small drone, so have acquired the newest version of the JJRC H20C.

I'm not expecting much from it, since it only cost £30, which for a small hexacopter featuring a camera, really isn't too bad.  If I can manage to grasp flying it competently outside, I may experiment with taking some footage of a FNRttC, but only the stationary cyclists when stopped, from above ground level, not swooping amongst cyclists in motion !

At the moment, I'm just trying to fly it in the kitchen, and not scare Zev too much.  It ought to be possible to fit it all into a small shoulder bag, with several batteries, and charge exhausted batteries up from a small 2Ah USB battery.  Since the drone batteries are only 280mAh, enough for a few minutes flight, there ought to be several recharges in a 2Ah battery.

The camera seems to best be described as indifferent, and the 2GB Micro-SD card was missing (the supplier offered me 50p back, or two cards "when" I order more drones from them!), but I can go for a better, larger, more expensive one, when I leave this one in a tree. ;D

I've only had to put three propellers back on, so far, and not lost or damaged any of them.  The blades also do not slice into your fingers, hardly surprisingly. :)  Since it's only just over 30g, it bounces and survives fairly easily.

There's a review and some footage here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhca2mZ0MI).
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 23 January, 2017, 08:48:01 pm
Finally got a DVR added to my race-setup and captured a few laps of Friday Nights practice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QXRctVtrbo
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andrewc on 23 February, 2017, 04:16:08 pm
Those clever ISIS chappies have been getting inventive.  Allegedly this was shot down in Iraq earlier today.


https://twitter.com/sarahussein/status/834760699142402048



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WqaGlWAAE1_4P.jpg)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 23 February, 2017, 05:32:33 pm
Doesn't look very shot down...
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andrewc on 24 February, 2017, 10:10:18 pm
Doesn't look very shot down...


It seems they've got specialist kit to jam signals & cause them to land.  https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/02/isis-builds-quadcopter-bomber-with-dji-drone-and-badminton-supplies/
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 04 March, 2017, 01:18:15 am
The grenades are not armed. I strongly suspect that this was captured on the ground.
I should also add that usually the only failsafe mechanism to make a drone land immediately is if it thinks it's low on battery. Otherwise, if you disrupt the control link (which is what the majority of those anti-drone 'guns' do), it will return to either where it's launched or otherwise preset location.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 04 March, 2017, 12:54:56 pm
If you spoofed a GPS signal so it thought it was much higher than it was supposed to be...

Not exactly easy to do.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 04 March, 2017, 10:36:47 pm
You will typically lock on to 9+ satellites. You then have to fake the majority of those and it has to diverge enough from the barometric pressure as well.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 07 March, 2017, 03:55:32 pm
You will typically lock on to 9+ satellites. You then have to fake the majority of those and it has to diverge enough from the barometric pressure as well.

Not very difficult to do, the power budget is such that generally the receiver is just able to pick then up.  A much stronger signal would trivially overload the receiver (even with the antenna "looking" in the wrong direction), and it wouldn't be difficult for the country that actually designed and built the satellites to achieve this.

Whether they'd actually bother, is another question, when there are likely many other easier and cheaper ways to incapacitate a civilian drone.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 08 March, 2017, 01:00:44 am
You will typically lock on to 9+ satellites. You then have to fake the majority of those and it has to diverge enough from the barometric pressure as well.

Not very difficult to do, the power budget is such that generally the receiver is just able to pick then up.  A much stronger signal would trivially overload the receiver (even with the antenna "looking" in the wrong direction), and it wouldn't be difficult for the country that actually designed and built the satellites to achieve this.

Whether they'd actually bother, is another question, when there are likely many other easier and cheaper ways to incapacitate a civilian drone.

Right:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/protecting-gps-from-spoofers-is-critical-to-the-future-of-navigation

Good thing I'm using Ublox M8 units...I should probably update the firmware!.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Canardly on 08 March, 2017, 08:15:44 am
Those clever ISIS chappies have been getting inventive.  Allegedly this was shot down in Iraq earlier today.


https://twitter.com/sarahussein/status/834760699142402048 (https://twitter.com/sarahussein/status/834760699142402048)



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5WqaGlWAAE1_4P.jpg)


I like the shuttlecock stabilisers.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: frankly frankie on 08 March, 2017, 09:30:08 am
I like the look of this mini-drone, cheap and allegedly doesn't require a license.  Just enough range to do a roof survey.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0880793964/airselfie-miniature-drone-goes-on-general-sale (https://www.dpreview.com/news/0880793964/airselfie-miniature-drone-goes-on-general-sale)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: alexb on 08 March, 2017, 09:51:22 am
Was speaking to a friend at the University of Liverpool a few days ago. They have a dedicated MSc course in drone technology and a research institute: https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/research/centres-and-institutes/faculty-of-engineering-and-technology-research-institute/geri/expertise/drone-technologies-and-sensing

She's been working with them to have them survey her archaeological sites in 3D.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andrew_s on 08 March, 2017, 10:59:24 am
I like the look of this mini-drone, cheap and allegedly doesn't require a license.  Just enough range to do a roof survey.[/url]
"On a full charge users can enjoy up to three minutes of flight"
Sounds like it would be in danger of requiring ladder retrieval.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: fuaran on 08 March, 2017, 12:15:31 pm
I like the look of this mini-drone, cheap and allegedly doesn't require a license.  Just enough range to do a roof survey.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0880793964/airselfie-miniature-drone-goes-on-general-sale (https://www.dpreview.com/news/0880793964/airselfie-miniature-drone-goes-on-general-sale)
I don't think licensing is an issue, at least with current UK law. You can fly a rather large quadcopter without any sort of licence. Though there is a government consultation, which suggests some sort of registration scheme.

Yes, rather short battery life on that one. Built in battery is annoying, if it takes 1/2 hour to recharge between flights.
And don't know if the camera is any good. For roof surveys, a downward pointing camera may be more useful.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 21 March, 2017, 01:12:04 pm


In all seriousness though it can't be long before some radical straps 500g of explosive and some nails to one then flies it into Dwning Street from a pickup truck a few streets away.

Thing is, you have to maintain line-of-sight to do so...or at the very least not have anything obstruct the control & video signal...and in built-up areas, relying on GPS may not be possible, so even autonomous flight would be doubtful. There's inertia navigation modules out there, but the known ones require export license, so it'll require jumping through a few hoops to get there.

It's quite amazing how quickly things have progressed.

The DJI Mavic Pro costs £1000.  It flies at 45mph and has a range of around 4miles, providing 1080p live video feed (plus onboard 4K)

It has some autonomous modes where it will fly a pre-determined route.  It will hover and circle a "point of interest" independently.

It has forward-facing "avoidance" cameras and downward-facing terrain cameras.

It also folds away into a coat pocket.

It's Sci-Fi..... and I just ordered one !!!!!

Watch this space.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 22 March, 2017, 10:38:40 pm


In all seriousness though it can't be long before some radical straps 500g of explosive and some nails to one then flies it into Dwning Street from a pickup truck a few streets away.

Thing is, you have to maintain line-of-sight to do so...or at the very least not have anything obstruct the control & video signal...and in built-up areas, relying on GPS may not be possible, so even autonomous flight would be doubtful. There's inertia navigation modules out there, but the known ones require export license, so it'll require jumping through a few hoops to get there.

It's quite amazing how quickly things have progressed.

The DJI Mavic Pro costs £1000.  It flies at 45mph and has a range of around 4miles, providing 1080p live video feed (plus onboard 4K)

It has some autonomous modes where it will fly a pre-determined route.  It will hover and circle a "point of interest" independently.

It has forward-facing "avoidance" cameras and downward-facing terrain cameras.

It also folds away into a coat pocket.

It's Sci-Fi..... and I just ordered one !!!!!

Watch this space.

A friend of mine got one and it's a really nice machine. However, it only flies at 40mph in 'sports' mode and it's not something it's really designed to do. It is primarily a take pretty pictures drone. If you want to zoom around and fly fast, it's the completely wrong machine.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 24 March, 2017, 01:53:49 pm

A friend of mine got one and it's a really nice machine. However, it only flies at 40mph in 'sports' mode and it's not something it's really designed to do. It is primarily a take pretty pictures drone. If you want to zoom around and fly fast, it's the completely wrong machine.

Mostly I expect it will be in "Tripod Mode" which restricts it to about 2mph and enables super-steady "cinematic" shots.

I intend to go travelling in my Motorhome for some months, Scotland, Norway...wherever else my nose takes me.  It seemed a crime not to have the opportunity to film some of the scenery along the way.

I have no interest in racing..etc.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 24 March, 2017, 11:46:40 pm
Right and it's perfect for that. It's just that the advertising for tries to show that it can be used for 'racing style' flying.
Look forward to seeing your images/vids!
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 25 March, 2017, 12:09:42 am
Advertising does that  :P

Also looking forward to your output. A drone combined with a pilot with an eye is usually good  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 27 March, 2017, 10:29:21 pm
Bloody Hell!!!   Flying Drones is nerve-wracking.  There was so much going on that I forgot to press "record" for the first few flights.

I need a few more hours flying time before I'll be totally relaxed but I did manage to get some footage after work.  The light wasn't great but it still looks fairly nice.

Everything I had planned for sweeping cinematic shots went out of the window once it got airborne, then it's like, "Where the hell did it go?", "Jesus it got up there bloody quickly"..etc.

Just like the first driving lesson again.

Video #1 -  https://youtu.be/nBrnjYzLRmc (https://youtu.be/nBrnjYzLRmc)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 28 March, 2017, 07:00:17 am
Very impresssive for a first flight.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jurek on 28 March, 2017, 07:14:03 am
Excellent stuff, Lee.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 28 March, 2017, 10:20:04 pm
2nd flight was slightly less hectic.  I'm starting to trust its ability to stay where it is when I let go of the controls.

Also, because I'm less hectic, I remembered to press the record on/off button (always useful).

I tested the "Return Home" button and it's extraordinary.  It takes an image as it takes off and, when it returns home (at a user-defined altitude) it hovers over the "GPS Home" and matches the ground with the image it took on take-off.  It lands within a foot of where it took off .

Anyway... video #2.  I'm hoping to gain a bit of "muscle-memory" so I can focus (literally) on nice cinematic shots.

https://youtu.be/SWoFXyl9tlw (https://youtu.be/SWoFXyl9tlw)

Comments?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jurek on 29 March, 2017, 06:53:36 am
The steadyness (if there is such a word) is remarkable. It could've been shot from a tripod or a steady-cam.
It's been quite gusty here over the last couple of days - I'm guessing, in the absence of much movement in the branches of trees, not so windy down your way.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 29 March, 2017, 09:45:54 am
I'm trying not to be impressed, in case I go out and get one. As someone who enjoys walking about places, often up places, I always try to take the best shot I can to remind me of being there. Often, especially with the "up" places, your POV is limited, that drone action would provide amazing freedom and perspective. eg (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WDOMP6etjK0/WNtxZ_x8eQI/AAAAAAABAOA/-iGL9kZEEHENJtIxcfZBo5Xj589BotWKwCPcB/s800/S0293291.jpg)

But then, would it actually add to the quality of the memory? I don't know, but I know the techie in me wants to find out.   

I'd be fascinated to hear how you get on with it, and the way the video complements any still photography. I know that I hated using a video camera, which I did quite a bit when our daughter was growing up, I found it really got in the way of "being there". But, now I'm glad I did. I wonder if there is an element of that with using a drone, it sounds as if you have to put quite a bit of effort into getting decent results.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 29 March, 2017, 09:49:48 am
The steadyness (if there is such a word) is remarkable. It could've been shot from a tripod or a steady-cam.
It's been quite gusty here over the last couple of days - I'm guessing, in the absence of much movement in the branches of trees, not so windy down your way.

Amazingly I was getting "High Wind - Caution" alerts on the 2nd video.  It was very blustery up on the hill.  The way the camera Gimbal and accelerometers deal with drone movement is incredible.  As far as I am aware it's all mechanical stabilisation.  I haven't done anything in Post-processing to stabilise it.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 29 March, 2017, 10:03:19 am
Maybe that's what's responsible for parts of the sequence being sharper than others?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 29 March, 2017, 10:17:50 am
I'd be fascinated to hear how you get on with it, and the way the video complements any still photography. I know that I hated using a video camera, which I did quite a bit when our daughter was growing up, I found it really got in the way of "being there". But, now I'm glad I did. I wonder if there is an element of that with using a drone, it sounds as if you have to put quite a bit of effort into getting decent results.

As part of my plan to go travelling in the Motorhome as soon as I can I wanted to have the ability to document it as well as I could. 
I know exactly what you mean about "being there" but I have a terrible mix of poor recall, of my life's events, combined with being very nostalgic.  I think it's why I'm a bit of a photo-junkie.

I'm now equipped with a lovely DSLR, which covers still images and TV quality video nicely.  I have a very nice "pocket camera" that I can use discreetly and, less discreetly, I now have the Mavic Drone.  I'd like to publish a video/stills blog of my travels and I couldn't bear the thought of travelling along Norway's Lofoten Islands without doing it justice .

I'm learning how to "do" video in a cinematic way, so that it holds people's attention.  Currently that's a distant 2nd priority, behind getting comfortable with the drone.  I want it to be second-nature when I'm actually confronted with some epic scenery.  I'm watching lots of Youtubes about film-making and it's very interesting. 

The most interesting thing to note (try it at home kids) is counting the number of seconds between cuts in a film.  It's usually just 4-5 seconds which is rather surprising, something you aren't aware of when watching an engrossing movie...but is a key factor in why it IS an engrossing movie.  By contrast family videos are usually...well we all know what family videos are like...they're engrossing only because there's a DNA link with the people on screen.

So, watch this space.  I'd be more than happy for reviews on my (hopefully) improving style.  I hope to produce high-quality, watchable footage, of beautiful places.
I predict a life of 5am-6am filming sessions, in order to catch the good light and avoid any aggravation. The amazement of simply seeing things from high up is over, I think you need to add some cinematic value to any footage now.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 29 March, 2017, 10:28:02 am
Maybe that's what's responsible for parts of the sequence being sharper than others?

More likely Youtube compression.  The original is shot in 2.7K HD then rendered down to 1080p then uploaded to Youtube.

It's much sharper on my 1920x1080 monitor when playing the rendered file natively, sharper than what Youtube claim to be 1080p.

It's a bit of a dilemma, choosing the quality.  It will film in pure 4K but that's going to cause me issues rendering it on my Laptop.  I don't have any device capable of playing anything better than 1080p right now.  I opted for 2.7K HD as a half-way solution.  Clearly, if I were a BBC Wildlife videographer, I'd be recording 8K now.  I may step it up a notch and do some testing.  No harm in having 4K as it gives you opportunities to crop into the video.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 29 March, 2017, 10:29:14 am
Vimeo is that way --->
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 29 March, 2017, 11:10:08 am
Vimeo is that way --->

Yes, once I get my act into gear and testing over I'll use Vimeo I think.  For now though it's too easy just to use my Youtube a/c.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Charlotte on 29 March, 2017, 12:07:38 pm
Have you seen these?

https://www.parrot.com/uk/minidrones/parrot-mambo#parrot-mambo-

£100 FFS!
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 29 March, 2017, 02:14:59 pm
Have you seen these?

https://www.parrot.com/uk/minidrones/parrot-mambo#parrot-mambo-

£100 FFS!

Interesting.  If there's an easy way to fit a camera to it, replacing the grabber/cannon, that would be very useful.

Of course, stabilisation is also going to be an issue.  With a high enough resolution, I suppose software can improve upon that, as long as you don't mind losing some of the resolution, and the edges of the image.

Given that the entire drone weighs 63g, any camera is going to need to be very light.  I'd guess it needs to be less than 10g, which is probably challenging for a camera with decent lens and battery.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 29 March, 2017, 02:39:13 pm
... of course, a Parrot AR Drone 2.0, at £230 may be a more sensible approach, for that purpose.

     Parrot AR Drone 2.0, on Parrot website (https://www.parrot.com/uk/drones/parrot-ardrone-20-elite-edition#parrot-ardrone-20-elite-edition)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 29 March, 2017, 03:45:53 pm
DJI, who make my drone, just announced this....https://www.dji.com/mg-1 (https://www.dji.com/mg-1)

I can see some issues with the availability of an autonomous consumer drone capable of carrying a 10Kg payload.

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 29 March, 2017, 07:24:39 pm
Have you seen these?

https://www.parrot.com/uk/minidrones/parrot-mambo#parrot-mambo-

£100 FFS!

Interesting.  If there's an easy way to fit a camera to it, replacing the grabber/cannon, that would be very useful.

Of course, stabilisation is also going to be an issue.  With a high enough resolution, I suppose software can improve upon that, as long as you don't mind losing some of the resolution, and the edges of the image.

Given that the entire drone weighs 63g, any camera is going to need to be very light.  I'd guess it needs to be less than 10g, which is probably challenging for a camera with decent lens and battery.

You can get SD cameras and a transmitter that weighs around 4g:
https://www.tinywhoop.com/products/fx-900tw-mullet-modded-ultralight-camera-vtx-and-antenna?variant=29062706689
But you wont get any HD recording camera that weighs less 25g or so. (A stripped down Mobius would be about that weight).
In reality, this thing toy.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: benborp on 29 March, 2017, 07:37:57 pm
DJI, who make my drone, just announced this....https://www.dji.com/mg-1 (https://www.dji.com/mg-1)

I can see some issues with the availability of an autonomous consumer drone capable of carrying a 10Kg payload.
I'm flying the Matrice 600 at the moment, which can manage a 6kg payload. I have to notify the security services every time I take off and land. Apparently there are snipers to enforce compliance.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: benborp on 16 April, 2017, 11:49:31 am
I'm no longer flying a Matrice 600. Intentionally cut power at 40m to minimise damage when things went woo.

This has been an unpleasant and expensive day.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jaded on 16 April, 2017, 12:21:07 pm
Ouch.  :-\
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: benborp on 16 April, 2017, 10:09:30 pm
After a debrief it turns out we got just about the best possible outcome (plus it wasn't my fault). The standby drone is now functioning and a replacement is already on its way. Still an expensive day, managed to do £6000-14000 damage on the way down in addition to the loss of the drone.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: tom_e on 16 April, 2017, 10:31:43 pm
Yowser.  At least the point of an unmanned flying vehicle is that you can have an expensive day without a person getting hurt I suppose.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 16 April, 2017, 10:48:53 pm
Wow!!!😲
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 17 April, 2017, 10:38:15 am
I'd hope, given the size and cost of a Matrice 600 (and probably the camera), that you had at least somewhat allowed for that sort of eventuality in your Risk Assessment and Business Plan, hence deciding to kill the power.  Not a good result though, however much you had considered it a potential outcome. :(
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: benborp on 19 April, 2017, 06:40:50 am
In terms of the scale of the overall project a drone is peanuts. Pretty much anything I have the opportunity to fly into is hundreds of times more valuable than the drone and is going to take an awful lot of working hours to fix. So yes, the drone was always likely to be the first thing sacrificed.
The drone managed to bounce between two installations and the mid-air damage affected another component that could be modified so the other expenses are much nearer the £6000 mark.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 20 April, 2017, 12:35:51 am
Curious to what the problem was. That's the A3 FC, right, with it's fancy decision making algorithms?


Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: benborp on 20 April, 2017, 06:18:07 am
I can't say where, why or for whom or give too much else away, but -

A miscommunication led to the driving of a winch operated system through the drone flight path. As the drone is dragging around a drogue on a 20m tether it was, unsurprisingly, caught. Although it was caught by a winch line landing on top of the drone so the tether wasn’t a complication. Four of the six props appear to have made contact with the dyneema line which was under tension and running across the space approx. 20 degrees off horizontal. The props caught below the line have remarkably little damage. The two above look to have been destroyed almost immediately​. The drone continued to fly in a stable upright manner for a good thirty seconds despite losing props, having remaining props beating against an obstacle and being dragged off station. That was down to the FC system working well and it bought us some useful time. The M600 as supplied has no sensors to aid awareness of its environment, it is blind and just knows where it is, which way is up and what forces are acting upon it, but it does that really well.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 21 April, 2017, 06:57:34 am
Ah fair enough. Was just curious if it was a FC failure. Thanks for clarifying that :)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 22 April, 2017, 11:36:34 pm
My first attempt at a "proper" video.

We just got back from a 2 week "road-trip" in the motorhome.  The Peak District, Lake District and Scotland's west coast.

It was almost constantly very windy and the drone struggled to hold its position.  That makes the footage all the more amazing.  Clearly the 3-way gimbal was working overtime to stabilise matters.

>>> CLICKY <<< (https://youtu.be/_N-lasExlOI)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 22 April, 2017, 11:45:51 pm
Stunning!  Smooth drone footage always makes people and vehicles seem a bit matchbox to me.  Real flying cameras aren't supposed to move like that...

Feels like overuse of fade in/out in the final video, but it's hard to join that sort of footage up another way.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 23 April, 2017, 12:14:37 am
Stunning!  Smooth drone footage always makes people and vehicles seem a bit matchbox to me.  Real flying cameras aren't supposed to move like that...

Feels like overuse of fade in/out in the final video, but it's hard to join that sort of footage up another way.

I used fade in/out because I didn't have time for slick edits to the music beats, it covers up lazy editing quite nicely. 
Only got back around 3pm today, after 2 weeks on the road and was desperate to put something from the Mavic out there.  I have hundreds of photos and videos from my DSLR to edit as well. 
Work really does get on the way, even when I'm editing on my laptop while in the motorhome to cut down on the time it takes at home.

On top of that I'm learning how to best use the drone.  It's sooooooo "feature rich" that it's a bit overwhelming once it's in the air.  A fully featured video camera, with all that entails, combined with a 2 joystick flight controller, plus camera tilt wheel (and several other buttons to contend with).  It's by far the most feature packed tech gadget I have ever used.

The pro film-makers tend to use 2 operators and I can see why, one to fly and one in charge of the camera.  However, if you look at the short footage of me cycling, that was fully automated.  The drone was auto-tracking me.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 23 April, 2017, 01:06:43 pm
The pro film-makers tend to use 2 operators and I can see why, one to fly and one in charge of the camera.  However, if you look at the short footage of me cycling, that was fully automated.  The drone was auto-tracking me.

I was wondering about that.  Cool stuff.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 25 April, 2017, 09:33:43 am
...if you look at the short footage of me cycling, that was fully automated.  The drone was auto-tracking me.

Oooh, neat!  I guess you're somewhat dependent on the obstacle avoidance with that, but it appears that you want to make damned sure the flight path doesn't intersect any phone lines, or worse, electrical lines, because that's probably going to mean "burny melty" death, for the drone.

DJI Mavic Pro - Obstacle Avoidance - How sensitive is it? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDuwbgBsc60)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: LEE on 25 April, 2017, 11:08:35 am
...if you look at the short footage of me cycling, that was fully automated.  The drone was auto-tracking me.

Oooh, neat!  I guess you're somewhat dependent on the obstacle avoidance with that, but it appears that you want to make damned sure the flight path doesn't intersect any phone lines, or worse, electrical lines, because that's probably going to mean "burny melty" death, for the drone.

DJI Mavic Pro - Obstacle Avoidance - How sensitive is it? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDuwbgBsc60)

It was flying sideways whilst tracking me so no chance of avoiding anything.  There were rural power lines around but it was flying above them.  I'm very wary about wires and, since getting the drone, have noticed just how "polluted" the skies are with them.

You can also have it circle you whilst tracking, which looks amazingly slick, but there was the complication of a steep hill to my left which would have meant flying it higher.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: geraldc on 25 April, 2017, 02:01:56 pm
I'm looking into doing one of those CAA drone courses, so I can use a drone for aerial photography projects, and get proper insurance etc, however seeing as it seems each authorised establishment handles the exam bit and accreditation themselves, I guess they're much of a muchness. Don't suppose anyone has done a course around London or East Anglia they can recommend?

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 25 April, 2017, 02:08:10 pm
No, but I'm interested in your experience/investigation
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jurek on 26 April, 2017, 06:39:20 pm
If only I had the free time.... I think I would've clicked 'Buy now' on a drone by now.
I confess to a twinge of envy over some of the footage Lee has posted (and Dez, come to think of it)

Years ago (about 30) I built kit using RC servos (Kids, pay attention. There was no Bluetooth then,  and the only IR available was in a lamp with a big reflector, for treating  your lumbago - here endeth today's lesson) to control direction and shutter release on an  SLR, and had a kite with a 4m wingspan (think small hang glider) to loft all of it into the air.
It remained an unfinished project. I still have parts of the kit lying around somewhere.
The kite worked. The RC kit worked comme ça (https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurekb/3971352182/in/album-72157603453505533/)
I never got round to marrying the two.
Building the kit from scratch was, I suspect for me, the greater part of the fun. And let's be honest - if it had successful, it would've been much more 'flying by the seat of your pants' than anything that is slickly available today.
But the appeal of 'affordable' aerial photography continues to haunt me.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: alexb on 09 June, 2017, 02:38:32 pm
Is anyone playing with any of the little indoor drones?
I'm tempted by a Hubsan X4 at about £50 including a bunch of spare batteries.

Of course, I'd really like to try my hand at FPV, but I figured buy something cheap, see if I have the coordination to fly it and then take it from there.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: tom_e on 09 June, 2017, 08:14:41 pm
My daughter bought an Eachine e10c.  Great fun little thing.  Like the IR controlled indoor helicopters from a few years back, but with a bit more auto stabilisation built in.  Yaw axis is more or less perfectly stable.  Other three axes require a fair bit of practice.

It's great fun.  It is not a miniature version of those more expensive self stabilised drones.  It is a cool toy you can get out and fly round your living room in any spare three minutes.

Camera on it is not too shabby, but I'm not sure what you could really use it for.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: tonycollinet on 14 June, 2017, 12:31:11 am
DJI now have the spark. A fairly full featured drone with mech stabilised camera and at a much more affordable £500 or so. (controlled from phone, standard remote transmitter extra)

Doesn't have pro video features (or at least not 4k) - more aimed at "social" videography.

Think flying selfie platform :-)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 14 June, 2017, 09:24:34 am
Is the Mavic in DJI Mavic Pro the same Mavic that makes rims etc? Can we expect Shimano v Campagnolo to take on an aerial aspect?
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Andrij on 24 July, 2017, 09:42:08 pm
Overflowing Glory Hole Spillway at Lake Berryessa (https://youtu.be/NxOOnKL265I)
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 25 July, 2017, 12:27:41 am
Overflowing Glory Hole Spillway at Lake Berryessa (https://youtu.be/NxOOnKL265I)

Swirly thing alert!
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 25 July, 2017, 10:16:53 am
That sort of footage impresses me, because it would probably not be safe, or cost effective to film it otherwise.  Flying a helicopter that close to things which it could easily hit, would be unnecessarily dangerous, and probably cost a lot more than a comparatively simple drone, albeit in this case probably a relatively large and expensive drone with pilot and cameraman.

Drones open up all sorts of possibilities, that would simply not have been practical a few years ago.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: rafletcher on 25 July, 2017, 11:20:51 am

Drones open up all sorts of possibilities, that would simply not have been practical a few years ago.

Indeed - we watched "Wild Alaska" last night, and a lot of the footage was drone filming. They're more expendable than helicopters, and a lot quieter and therefore less disturbing to wildlife.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 25 July, 2017, 01:44:33 pm

Drones open up all sorts of possibilities, that would simply not have been practical a few years ago.

Indeed - we watched "Wild Alaska" last night, and a lot of the footage was drone filming. They're more expendable than helicopters, and a lot quieter and therefore less disturbing to wildlife.

The traditional way of sneaking up on wildlife from the air in order to film them is by hot-air balloon.  Sort of thing that's barely practical and requires the patience of a well-funded wildlife photographer.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 25 July, 2017, 03:17:03 pm
...
The traditional way of sneaking up on wildlife from the air in order to film them is by hot-air balloon.  Sort of thing that's barely practical and requires the patience of a well-funded wildlife photographer.

I wonder if lighter than air drones could become a thing for this sort of purpose?  A drone may be quieter than a helicopter, but it's far from silent !

A helium balloon for most of the lift, and smaller motors for directional control and stability would seem to be a possible approach.  For even a moderate payload, the balloon will be large, and prone to being caught by the wind, which I suspect would be an issue.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Little Jim on 25 July, 2017, 03:31:36 pm
...
The traditional way of sneaking up on wildlife from the air in order to film them is by hot-air balloon.  Sort of thing that's barely practical and requires the patience of a well-funded wildlife photographer.

I wonder if lighter than air drones could become a thing for this sort of purpose?  A drone may be quieter than a helicopter, but it's far from silent !

A helium balloon for most of the lift, and smaller motors for directional control and stability would seem to be a possible approach.  For even a moderate payload, the balloon will be large, and prone to being caught by the wind, which I suspect would be an issue.


This would be like a small scale version of the Airlander that they are building at Cardington so I guess it is possible, although there must be a trade-off between it being blown about by the wind and the size of the engines needed to keep it stable.  As you decrease the size of it you reduce the payload capacity but does the engine size decrease accordingly or do you rapidly get to the point where it is just balloon and engine with no payload capacity?

Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 25 July, 2017, 03:36:49 pm
It would seem like a good option for indoor use, where there's going to be approximately zero wind, and spinny blades are worth avoiding.  I suppose the limiting factor there is keeping it practically small.  I'm thinking Festo air penguins and such.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: TimO on 25 July, 2017, 05:37:49 pm
I was thinking from the perspective of a quiet camera platform, for wildlife observation, without needing a mega long range lens !

I fear that you're right, and that the size of the balloon would possibly be too large, so it would need large engines, and possibly still not be terribly stable.

I wonder what the alternative is?  Possibly large slow rotors, to reduce the frequency of the noise, which may help with mammals and animals that hear in a similar audio range ?  How about, very small, very high speed rotors, to move the frequencies so high, that they're way above the range of the target animals? ???
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 25 July, 2017, 05:57:43 pm
I wonder what the alternative is?  Possibly large slow rotors, to reduce the frequency of the noise, which may help with mammals and animals that hear in a similar audio range ?

Isn't that a helicopter? :)


Quote
How about, very small, very high speed rotors, to move the frequencies so high, that they're way above the range of the target animals? ???

In my experience, many animals can be surprisingly un-bothered by such things.  They fear their natural predators, which usually includes man, but machines don't really register as a threat unless they get *very* close.  Hence you can drive up to a pride of lions in a vehicle (rattly old smoke-smoke-spewing diesel engine and all) and they'll just sit there watching you, but if they see a human approaching on foot they'll go into fight or flight mode.

Wildlife photographers have had a lot of success with remotely controlled electric ground vehicles.  I don't think the animals usually believe it's a rock or a particularly stupid penguin or whatever, it's just not a threat, food or a mate.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Somnolent on 25 July, 2017, 09:36:09 pm
In my experience, many animals can be surprisingly un-bothered by such things.  They fear their natural predators, which usually includes man, but machines don't really register as a threat unless they get *very* close. 

Can you come round and explain this to Tayo (Border Collie x Retriever) please?  He goes bonkers whenever he sees anything RC being used when out on his walks.   Quadcopters & RC cars both get the full-on "postman" treatment.  He's never hurt anyone (or drone) yet, but you wouldn't know it from the volume and ferocity of the barking.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Chris S on 25 July, 2017, 09:40:14 pm
I may indulge.

Currently weighing up DJI Spark vs Mavic. Similar portability, the Mavic Pro has it on the whole 4K thing, but you can recharge the Spark using a Power Bank. I'm trying to work out which is best for carrying on a bike to the beach/hills/audax control.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Kim on 25 July, 2017, 09:48:31 pm
In my experience, many animals can be surprisingly un-bothered by such things.  They fear their natural predators, which usually includes man, but machines don't really register as a threat unless they get *very* close. 

Can you come round and explain this to Tayo (Border Collie x Retriever) please?  He goes bonkers whenever he sees anything RC being used when out on his walks.   Quadcopters & RC cars both get the full-on "postman" treatment.  He's never hurt anyone (or drone) yet, but you wouldn't know it from the volume and ferocity of the barking.

Border collies, innit.  Going bonkers is what they do best.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 17 August, 2017, 09:19:48 pm
I wonder what the alternative is?  Possibly large slow rotors, to reduce the frequency of the noise, which may help with mammals and animals that hear in a similar audio range ?

Isn't that a helicopter? :)


Funny you should say that. My dog will try to chase my quads and planes, but mostly ignores my helicopter.. Currently setting one up with the same flight controller as a regular 'drone'.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 08 December, 2017, 11:44:27 am
Anyone looked into the potential of a business from drone photography? Needs (?) a commercial license I think, although it isn't entirely clear what the status of that license is, and a decent drone, but the potential is pretty big I would have thought. I can see a problem in London as much is a no fly zone.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Quisling on 08 December, 2017, 11:47:42 am
Anyone looked into the potential of a business from drone photography? Needs (?) a commercial license I think, although it isn't entirely clear what the status of that license is, and a decent drone, but the potential is pretty big I would have thought. I can see a problem in London as much is a no fly zone.

I have a contact who uses a drone fitted with thermography kit to survey for hot spots on solar pv installations, check wind turbines etc.  Mind you, he is also an expert in renewables.  He has both a standard and some sort of advanced operator's license which allows closer inspection in built up areas, like 20m instead of 50m.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: andytheflyer on 08 December, 2017, 04:23:56 pm
Anyone looked into the potential of a business from drone photography? Needs (?) a commercial license I think, although it isn't entirely clear what the status of that license is, and a decent drone, but the potential is pretty big I would have thought. I can see a problem in London as much is a no fly zone.

You need a licence, some training, and a number of hoops jumped through.

See here:

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Aircraft/Unmanned-aircraft/Small-drones/Regulations-relating-to-the-commercial-use-of-small-drones/
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ashaman42 on 08 December, 2017, 04:39:23 pm
Surely you should fly through the hoops.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Ham on 10 December, 2017, 10:11:52 am
It does sound as if there should be a real business possible somewhere, a lot of the license training sites have "info" but real life experience I reckon would count for a lot more.

Curiously, while I think I am in a "no fly" zone, that includes an area where model aircraft flying is permitted. I suspect one could fly a drone from there.
Title: Re: Quadcopters for camera use
Post by: Jakob on 11 December, 2017, 10:18:30 pm
The aerial photography market is most likely over saturated and you'll probably need to more specialist things in order to make it worthwhile.