Considering a recumbent due to chronic low back pain - tips/advice?

[DuncanM]

That Performer is a bargain.

I would check to see if recumbent riding helps your back before you spend serious money on one. I don't know if you could discover that in a day or whether you'd be better off just experimenting with adjusting the seat on a bike you can ride regularly. I have tight hip flexors that have stopped me riding my bikes for the last few months - when I switched to my homebrew recumbent trike at the start of the year it made no difference to the hip flexors but gave me neck ache as well (probably down to the terrible excuse for a seat - I took it apart to change things and it's still in pieces, otherwise you could have a go). There are a couple of recumbent riders around, but I don't know if any of the Oxford shops have any recumbent knowledge, if I had to guess one it would be Warlands as they do all manner of interesting bikes. Otherwise you'll have to make the pilgrimage to Ely - not something I've got a round to doing yet.

[ElyDave]

re the hip flexors, this is a significant part of my problem.

Upwrong = better hip flexors, lower back limited to 2 hours
S40 = hip flexors hurt more, lower back better, 3 hours taking it easy,

1 hour if ridden hard in either case

[LMT]

That Performer is a bargain.

I would check to see if recumbent riding helps your back before you spend serious money on one. I don't know if you could discover that in a day or whether you'd be better off just experimenting with adjusting the seat on a bike you can ride regularly. I have tight hip flexors that have stopped me riding my bikes for the last few months - when I switched to my homebrew recumbent trike at the start of the year it made no difference to the hip flexors but gave me neck ache as well (probably down to the terrible excuse for a seat - I took it apart to change things and it's still in pieces, otherwise you could have a go). There are a couple of recumbent riders around, but I don't know if any of the Oxford shops have any recumbent knowledge, if I had to guess one it would be Warlands as they do all manner of interesting bikes. Otherwise you'll have to make the pilgrimage to Ely - not something I've got a round to doing yet.

Dunno about that, looking at the bike it looks a rip off of an old Low Baron. Which suffered from frame cracks around the headset/boom area before the design was changed to weld in a gusset. At least you get a nice tail box.

[mzjo]

Rans Rocket, lightning P38, were both on my list of possibles, as was the Schlitter Encore until they went stupid with both price and availability.

Try lots is always good advice

The P38 frameset is the same price as the S40 frameset. Like the S40 no dealers in UK so you’d have to bring back as luggage or import yourself.  Importing isn’t hard but will add approx £300 to the price. Rarely older versions come up second hand in UK.

Alternatively, I suppose, one could fly to USA with a BSO as luggage, and return with a recumbent BSO as luggage, who's going to look in the box. Just use it a bit on dusty trails with a sticker or two (UK ones taken out with you) .......More than one way to skin a wabbit!

Other than the pleasure derived from seeing Trumpingtonia at first hand would the cost of the trip not be  at least as much as the carriage and importation costs? (Sorrty to be such a killjoy!)

[Blodwyn Pig]

Rans Rocket, lightning P38, were both on my list of possibles, as was the Schlitter Encore until they went stupid with both price and availability.

Try lots is always good advice

The P38 frameset is the same price as the S40 frameset. Like the S40 no dealers in UK so you’d have to bring back as luggage or import yourself.  Importing isn’t hard but will add approx £300 to the price. Rarely older versions come up second hand in UK.

Alternatively, I suppose, one could fly to USA with a BSO as luggage, and return with a recumbent BSO as luggage, who's going to look in the box. Just use it a bit on dusty trails with a sticker or two (UK ones taken out with you) .......More than one way to skin a wabbit!

Other than the pleasure derived from seeing Trumpingtonia at first hand would the cost of the trip not be  at least as much as the carriage and importation costs? (Sorrty to be such a killjoy!)

Yes but you'd actually be able to rideit out there, (providing it was a complete bike)  and have a wee tour, say along the Ventura Highway,  or anywhere,

[andytheflyer]

That Performer is a bargain.

Dunno about that, looking at the bike it looks a rip off of an old Low Baron. Which suffered from frame cracks around the headset/boom area before the design was changed to weld in a gusset. At least you get a nice tail box.

I had the SAKI version of that Performer.  Bought it as a frame kit and added my own gears, wheels, chain etc. It's very light but was more than strong enough for my weight mainly on country lanes - so I gave it a fairly stern test over about 4 years. It was a bargain and I covered several thousand miles on it.  I'm at the top end of its weight capacity and had absolutely no issues with it at all.  Tom OTP now has it as I had age issues and had to move it on.  I still have a 2004 Performer 26/20 recumbent and its similarly well engineered and has given me almost no problems at all. I had a broken hub when changing a cassette, but that's all. 

IMHO, they are very good bikes, well engineered, and Christine at the factory will sell you whatever you need, and have it delivered very quickly.  These guys know what customer service is. Recumbents are a very small part of their business, they make vast numbers of DF bikes for the major names under subcontract AIUI.

[Mr Larrington]

If they’re good enough to win RAAM on there can’t be a lot wrong with them there Performer things.

[GavinC]

That Pelso Brevet looks remarkably similar to the equally unobtainable (in europe) Schlitter encore. 

There’s a Schlitter Encore for sale on the ‘bay at the moment. Not cheap though. It’s being sold by the same fellow who I bought my Orbit from and I saw it when I went to collect my bike. Very, very nice but (luckily!) too big for me.

[ElyDave]

I seem to remember them being made to order when I looked into it?

Cant seem to see that one on the bay of thieves, so it may have gone already.

[GavinC]

I seem to remember them being made to order when I looked into it?

Cant seem to see that one on the bay of thieves, so it may have gone already.

It’s still on there- the seller isn’t very good at creating compelling, descriptive titles for his auctions. IIRC mine was advertised as something like ‘90s recumbent bike’ 

[Oxford_Guy]

I seem to remember them being made to order when I looked into it?

Cant seem to see that one on the bay of thieves, so it may have gone already.

It’s still on there- the seller isn’t very good at creating compelling, descriptive titles for his auctions. IIRC mine was advertised as something like ‘90s recumbent bike’ 

Looks nice, but the seller says "I am 181cms, would suit plus or minus 5 cams on height", I'm only 172cm (5'8"), with relatively short legs, so would probably be too big for me

[Oxford_Guy]

re the hip flexors, this is a significant part of my problem.

Upwrong = better hip flexors, lower back limited to 2 hours
S40 = hip flexors hurt more, lower back better, 3 hours taking it easy,

1 hour if ridden hard in either case

Riding my normal bikes, it's only increased lower back pain I get (for the last 4 years I have some lower back pain all the time off the bike), though occasionally do get neck pain as well. My hip flexors may well be tight, but they don't hurt directly.

[GavinC]

Looks nice, but the seller says "I am 181cms, would suit plus or minus 5 cams on height", I'm only 172cm (5'8"), with relatively short legs, so would probably be too big for me

[fd3]

Right size for me and conveniently soooo far beyond my budget that it didn't even make me blink.

[Oxford_Guy]

I see reggieboy is selling a Nazca Gaucho - if it fits, I might be interested in that, I think I read somewhere that they're relatively easy to ride:

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=117043.0

[ElyDave]

I seem to remember them being made to order when I looked into it?

Cant seem to see that one on the bay of thieves, so it may have gone already.

It’s still on there- the seller isn’t very good at creating compelling, descriptive titles for his auctions. IIRC mine was advertised as something like ‘90s recumbent bike’ 

Listed under saddles, no wonder I couldn't find it

[ElyDave]

re the hip flexors, this is a significant part of my problem.

Upwrong = better hip flexors, lower back limited to 2 hours
S40 = hip flexors hurt more, lower back better, 3 hours taking it easy,

1 hour if ridden hard in either case

Riding my normal bikes, it's only increased lower back pain I get (for the last 4 years I have some lower back pain all the time off the bike), though occasionally do get neck pain as well. My hip flexors may well be tight, but they don't hurt directly.

I think I compensated massively with hip flexor and lower back when walking with a stick for 8 weeks. Nearly two years later I now struggle to sit for more than half an hour at a time and spend my work day stood at my adjustable desk. I am in pain every day and have been close to breaking out my stock of decent painkillers several times. Moral of this story, don't get run over.

[Oxford_Guy]

re the hip flexors, this is a significant part of my problem.

Upwrong = better hip flexors, lower back limited to 2 hours
S40 = hip flexors hurt more, lower back better, 3 hours taking it easy,

1 hour if ridden hard in either case

Riding my normal bikes, it's only increased lower back pain I get (for the last 4 years I have some lower back pain all the time off the bike), though occasionally do get neck pain as well. My hip flexors may well be tight, but they don't hurt directly.

I think I compensated massively with hip flexor and lower back when walking with a stick for 8 weeks. Nearly two years later I now struggle to sit for more than half an hour at a time and spend my work day stood at my adjustable desk. I am in pain every day and have been close to breaking out my stock of decent painkillers several times. Moral of this story, don't get run over.

When working, I have to alternate about every 45 minutes between a sitting and standing desk. When the lockdown hit about the first thing I did was to buy a standing desk adapter for my home working setup. I haven't known a day without some pain for over 4 years and was having to dose up on pain killers before going on any significant longer ride, but that's not really sustainable.

ElyDave - how do you find the S40? Still sorely tempted by one of these, though sounds like there is quite a learning curve. Should fit my shortish height at least

[McWheels]

Like ElyDave, I too have an S40, but more recently. Before that I leant on the V2k, or sofrider from the same company. Moving bottom bracket is just another learning curve. I bought the framest sight unseen and came back with it in a box. The S40 I imported because coronalurgi.

It took me about 60 miles to feel really confident in going where I wanted and about 600 to be completely instinctive. Your learning curve will be directly proportional to your (positive) attitude towards the new thing.

I'm selling the V2k now, go see the classifieds, but if you can make the trip to near Bath feel free to come round and try it out anyway. I will suggest you consider more reclined bikes in general to spread the weight and stop your spine being stacked up vertically.

[ElyDave]

TBH, of the three I've owned, the M5 M-Racer was by far the steepest learning curve. On that it was probably >1000 miles before I felt any degree of comfort.  The S40 was far less twitchier.  The only unusual part of the learning curve is the potential for pedal steer, which is at it's greatest when setting off.  The trick is to learn the right amount of counter pressure with the opposite hand.  That's the bit that takes a couple of hundred miles to become instinctive. It didn't really take that long tbh, I had mine built for the end of March and I was touring around Scotland and Cumbria across the first weekend in August

I really think that the mystery of an MBB is massively overblown, mostly by those who've never tried it for more than 200yds.

[Mr Larrington]

I think the MBB thing came mostly from the Flevobike, on which the handlebars are mainly there to provide a home for brake and gear controls.  Miss von Brandenburg once witnessed a bloke who claimed no prior recumbent experience just get on a Flevobike and ride merrily away, but most people spend a Several of hours falling off before they even manage a full turn of the pedals.

[PaulM]

Had any test rides yet? If so, how did you get on?

It would seem that the Schlitter Freestyle is the new bees knees for someone who isn't too tall and wants to do sportives and audaxes. Review and pictures here:
https://www.recumbent.news/2020/07/07/the-indomitable-schlitter-bikes-freestyle/

Another review here, https://www.bentrideronline.com/?p=12646

And another here, https://www.redpearlracing.com/single-post/2020/02/12/Schlitter-Freestyle-Review

[Oxford_Guy]

Had any test rides yet? If so, how did you get on?

The only actual test ride I've head so far was a week ago where I had a fairly brief go on a track on a pretty low-end, heavy trike (KMX cart) at Wheels for All - Oxford, but that did seem to confirm that riding recumbent style didn't seem to aggravate my lower back condition, which is *very* sensitive at the moment (whereas the two mile ride to the track on my Brompton did aggravate it). It did also confirm, though, though I wasn't so keen on being so low to the ground nor the way a trike steers - so think a two wheel high or mid racer is more what I'm interested in.

I did, however, also meet up last Sunday with a local two-wheeled recumbent rider who has a 700c wheeled Pelso Brever high racer, I had a good chat with him and sat in the bike, though it was attached to a turbo at the time and, although I could reach the ground with my feet, the way it was setup was far too long for me (I think my X-Seam is about 37"). I'm going to meet up with him again tomorrow and see if we can adjust it enough to make it rideable for me for a test ride. I suspect it will still be too large, but we shall see.

It would seem that the Schlitter Freestyle is the new bees knees for someone who isn't too tall and wants to do sportives and audaxes. Review and pictures here:
https://www.recumbent.news/2020/07/07/the-indomitable-schlitter-bikes-freestyle/

Another review here, https://www.bentrideronline.com/?p=12646

And another here, https://www.redpearlracing.com/single-post/2020/02/12/Schlitter-Freestyle-Review

That does indeed look excellent, the only things that slightly concern me are the reported likelihood of heelstrike for shorter riders and high BB, though I do like the fact that it can use "normal" 700c road bike wheels and that the riding experience is described as feeling "in" the bike, rather than just on top of it.

Is there a UK distributor for Schlitter?

[PaulM]

On the face of it, the Pelso-Brevet and Freestyle look similar, although I'm not sure the Pelso has the fore-aft seat movement which the Freestyle has. Both have extendable booms.  Yes, I noted the modest heel strike too. Some people quickly learn to extend the leg in the direction of the tight turn during the turn, some struggle. Short cranks would help.

Doing a personal import on a frameset is quite straightforward, but if you wanted to purchase a complete bike through a dealer then LaidBack bikes might be happy to get one in for you. They seem keen on getting their hands on new models for "evaluation".

I think big wheels, long wheelbases and no suspension is the way to go if you want to be quick. Balance is easier the higher off the ground you are too. That's the dilemma in the bent world if you're not tall. My balance and agility are compromised too so high racers are not an option for me. I had to look at LWBs instead, hence the RANS Stratus XP which I imported as a frameset.

[Lightning Phil]

Agree, personal import of framesets is straight forward.