Author Topic: Anyone Work for Open Reach?  (Read 5649 times)

Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« on: 07 July, 2021, 12:17:49 pm »
I moved into a new build house in March. I took my Three wireless broadband router with me and it worked OK, but not brilliantly.


I've decided to go for wired/fibre BB, so I've contacted a couple of ISPs (PlusNet & BT). Both have run a background check and, presumably, found that the connection to my house hasn't been activated and referred me to Open Reach. Now, OR are impossible to contact; well at least if you want to speak to a human being. The one response I got from them via email was to refer me back to the ISP. Catch-22.


Well, who do I turn to to get connected? My immediate neighbours both have BB, so there's not an issue with BB availability in the street.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Kim

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #1 on: 07 July, 2021, 12:20:36 pm »
https://www.aa.net.uk/

They have an employee called Shaun "BT Slayer" for a reason.  Tenacity with difficult lines is a speciality.

(Since when have OR been dealing with end users (other than when sending engineers out)?  Your ISP is their customer, not you.)

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #2 on: 07 July, 2021, 12:42:30 pm »
I wonder - as a random thought - if a small ISP might be worth contacting? Xen comes to mind - expensive, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #3 on: 07 July, 2021, 01:44:46 pm »


(Since when have OR been dealing with end users (other than when sending engineers out)?  Your ISP is their customer, not you.)

This, you have no reason to contact OR. Sadly Plusnet have dropped in the customer satisfaction ratings a lot since being bought by BT.  Have a look at alternatives - I'm with Vodafone (I get a discount as I'm a mobile customer).  I went FTTC (having previoulsy been with Plusnet on copper strings) with them, and they were very good. I had to call their customer support, which is in Cairo, but they were very good, and understandable (unlike the HSBC "help" somewhere in India, which was unfortunately totally incomprehensible)
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Kim

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #4 on: 07 July, 2021, 01:54:11 pm »
Or you could phone (or email/IRC like a civilised person) an office in Bracknell and get through to someone who knows at least two programming languages...

ian

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #5 on: 07 July, 2021, 04:16:57 pm »
Openreach won't talk to you, you're not their customer, the ISP is.

robgul

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #6 on: 07 July, 2021, 04:47:28 pm »
As it's (IIRC) a new build it may be that the builder should be asked about the connection as I assume they were involved with laying in the utilities which would normally include phone related stuff - to make sure it's connected or whatever to the green street cabinet.

As said up thread - Openreach is just the "sub-contractor" to whoever is suplying the service to you, the customer.      From experience moving house (on the same phone exchange cluster) Openreach and BT (Business Broadband in our case) seem to be in open warfare with each other, despite they are really one and the same business entity.

Kim

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #7 on: 07 July, 2021, 04:59:21 pm »
From experience moving house (on the same phone exchange cluster) Openreach and BT (Business Broadband in our case) seem to be in open warfare with each other, despite they are really one and the same business entity.

At an operational level, Openreach are completely separate from BT Retail (and indeed PlusNet, who are now also owned by the BT Group).  BT retail have no more power over Openreach than any of their other customers, it's just that the profit ultimately goes to the same shareholders.  Any assumption that using BT retail as a broadband (or telephone) provider will result in more harmonious dealing with line faults because they're the same company is incorrect (indeed, anecdotally they're much worse than small ISPs who care about their quality of service).


Which makes it hard to come up with a compelling argument to use them as an ISP, when you bear in mind the "use as little BT as possible" principle of computer networking reliability.

Beardy

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #8 on: 07 July, 2021, 06:43:06 pm »
There is such a hostile regulation regime in telecoms that when I worked for BT business and involved in building provisioning systems, any approach to open reach had to be seen to be done at arms length. Everyone would have been much happier if,we’d actually communicated via carrier pigeon.

I’ve said it for a long time, but the only benefactors of privatisation of utilities is the shareholders with the customer coming s distant second and the employees somewhere after that.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #9 on: 07 July, 2021, 08:17:39 pm »
If its a new build, they may have just installed FTTP. So you need an ISP that supports that.
Seems Plusnet don't do FTTP yet. But should be available through BT Retail. Or another, better ISP...

ian

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #10 on: 07 July, 2021, 08:23:45 pm »
If it's a problem with the physical connection, that's snagging and for the builders.

Otherwise, it's a problem for the ISP – not you – they either want to offer you the service or not.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #11 on: 08 July, 2021, 08:35:28 am »
I am surprised BT referred you to Open Reach.  We are with BT and in our case they arranged for our copper cable to be replaced with fibre a couple of months ago.  They had to dig up the street to do so.  It seems there is a lot of demand in our neighbourhood.  We also got the landline xferred to fibre - Mrs A doesn't share her mobile number with just anyone.
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #12 on: 08 July, 2021, 08:58:29 am »
I'm with Sky and had no real issues in a decade.    Phone played up once, I called Sky, they said the fault was a battery in the exchange - and within hours OpenReach engineer called me to check all was now working and fixed.

Electricity company snapped my phone cable doing some works, I complained and got nowhere (bearing in mind I work from home it was a bit of an issue).  Engaged Sky as well as my complaint to electric company (who sent management out to visit me and sympathise).    Openreach chap turned up next day, said it was beyond him, so he called a mate who turned up an hour later with a high reach lift and together they replaced the whole cable instead of re-repairing the bodge the electric engineer did on the day.    Result was that my internet speed went up to highest since I moved in, as opposed to being average and then very poor whenever it rained and the innards of the duct tape got wet.

I'd always deal with current ISP or prospective ISP as opposed to OpenReach.    My experience of OpenReach staff and service has been very good.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #13 on: 08 July, 2021, 09:02:05 am »
Yeah when I moved into this flat there was no phone line at all (owned for decades by an eccentric recluse I was told). Sky sent someone from Openreach round to run a new phone line up the stairs with zero hassle. No charge either.

Slightly different from a house, but principle should be the same.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #14 on: 09 July, 2021, 10:34:22 am »
Right after trying umpteen mainstream ISPs, it seems - according to their versions - that there currently isn't capacity in the infrastructure for more connections using BT/OR's set up. Seeing as it's a new build, that staggers me, if true.

The helpful guy at Now told me that & suggested Hyperoptic and/or Virgin. Virgin aren't in the area, and Hyperoptic were the first company I talked to and they can't connect me either. Ho hum.

I'll give AA Net a try. Not cheap, but I'm running out of options what with Three's connection being so shit.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

robgul

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #15 on: 09 July, 2021, 12:51:16 pm »
I simply don't believe that BT/OR can't supply.

Obvious question: You say neighbours have BB .... from whom?  That would seem to be a track to go down to find out.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #16 on: 09 July, 2021, 02:42:41 pm »
If your neighbours have FTTC ('super-fast' fibre) it's supplied by connecting you up to a port in the green cabinet by the side of the road. These are installed based on an average uptake, and if something happens (like a new housing estate...) and the developers don't engage with OpenReach then the cabinet can run out of ports. Happened to my in-laws, and they were on a waiting list for a while until OpenReach increased capacity. It's not always clear to the ISPs why a property can't be served, although they should be able to tell you in this case.

You'll probably get a sensible answer out of A&A so it would be worth trying them, although if it's the capacity issue I referenced above it is just a waiting game :(
 

Wombat

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #17 on: 10 July, 2021, 03:51:49 pm »
My initial response is to have nothing whatever to do with Openretch or Fucking BT because neither gives the tiniest damn about their customers, and BT actively does what it can to alienate them and provide the worst possible service.  However, if Openreach have indeed laid fibre network in the area, then you have no choice as to provider if you want fibre, because they refuse to release the fibre network to other providers.  I thought this was illegal, but it seems OFCOM are so incompetent that they only insisted they release their wired network, and fibres aren't wires, are they?

We had no choice, so I am indeed a customer of BT, and in case you hadn't picked up the ever so subtle hint, I hate them with a vengeance.  Not only total failure to stick to a succession of appointments over a 6 week period, but no concern whatever as to the situation this left us in (snowed in, no phone or internet, no mobile signal, in a remote location and needing to order food for delivery as soon as the snow was cleared), and persistent blatant lying.  This included the statement that as they paid for the fibre network they didn't have to release it, which isn't true as it was financed by the Welsh Government and the EU, because OR and BT had failed to provide the network as directed. Their guaranteed price for 18 months was a lie too, as it went up after 6 months.

So, unless you really need fibre, steer well clear of BT!  When they eventually connected mine, they said "look, its fast, its fibre" to which my response was that it was half the speed of Virgin's basic service I had in my previous home, which was installed on time, a  few days after asking.  The router's wifi is crap, too, but they want me to pay more, just to get the service they should be providing in the first place, i.e. wifi that works.

Wombat

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #18 on: 15 July, 2021, 03:06:16 pm »
So, things seem to have been resolved. I've managed to secure FTTP with Talk Talk. No need for street cabinets & the person I dealt with admitted that even their 'normal' broadband team didn't understand that FTTP bypasses the street infrastructure. 2-week wait, thobut. It'll be nice to move out of the Kb provision I currently have into Mb.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

ian

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #19 on: 15 July, 2021, 03:53:05 pm »
It strictly speaking doesn't bypass the infrastructure, it just gives you continuous fibre back to the exchange, it'll still have to go through several splitters which are often installed somewhere along the way (usually in manholes, under or on the telegraph poles).

I'm pretty sure there's one on the pole outside my house, which is odd, as they claim we don't have FTTP (or rather the checker does say 'oh yes you do,' but the ISPs say 'on no you don't,' fortunately, I'm fairly happy with FTTC).

This is a common theme, Virgin keep telling us the same, we can have their cable service, but that also doesn't exist. I think we live in a quantum realm.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #20 on: 16 July, 2021, 09:21:17 am »
What I don’t understand is why some ISPs can offer FTTP but not others? They all work through Openreach so it’s not a technical issue.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Beardy

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #21 on: 16 July, 2021, 09:33:42 am »
What I don’t understand is why some ISPs can offer FTTP but not others? They all work through Openreach so it’s not a technical issue.
Most work through Openreach, but one or two have their own networks in some cities. And to offer a particular service they have to have the right variety of kit in the exchange to interface said local service with their back haul offering. “Privatisation” of service provision in telecoms made a fairly simple infrastructure extremely complicated and kyboshed the intended (and extensively planned) rollout of FTTP to all domestic properties into the bargain.

in terms of damage to UK infra, the BT privatisation was up there with Beeching’s destruction of the railways.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Kim

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #22 on: 16 July, 2021, 11:35:25 am »
What I don’t understand is why some ISPs can offer FTTP but not others? They all work through Openreach so it’s not a technical issue.

Competence, and whether they want to pay for sufficient transit to the wider internet that FTTP customers don't perceive them as a bottleneck.

Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #23 on: 16 July, 2021, 12:28:21 pm »
I don't know if I'm FTTC or FTTN, but the speed is ok for our needs (three laptops on online meetings, files being downloaded for two people working and one homeschooling) while the tellybox is also downloading stuff I want to watch.

I don't know that I want to go FTTP and have my driveway dug up and holes drilled in my house.

Kim

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Re: Anyone Work for Open Reach?
« Reply #24 on: 16 July, 2021, 12:32:07 pm »
I don't know if I'm FTTC or FTTN

I'm fairly sure that FTTC is just BRITISH for FTTN?