Author Topic: Woman Taking Different Knees?  (Read 1819 times)

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #50 on: 21 July, 2021, 07:12:22 pm »
I've never understood the beach volleyball rules on female dress. I had no idea that handball had the same rules (admission: I'm not exactly sure what handball is!).
ISTR handball was invented by the Danish national football coach in the 1930s as an exercise to get his squad to think tactically. Somehow it grew from there to become a sport in its own right. It's quite popular (to the extent that it's played in schools, for instance) in some parts of Eastern Europe as well as, presumably, Scandinavia. What I find odd though is the way that beach handball or beach volleyball is considered a separate game from handball or volleyball.
Turns out it is a bit older than that. It is Scandinavian in origin though, but Swedish not Danish.
https://olympics.com/en/sports/handball/
That's field handball and indoor handball, not the beach variety (so there are three types altogether!) and the photos on that page do show women indoor handballists in shorts and t-shirts.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #51 on: 21 July, 2021, 07:16:07 pm »
Quote
probably a bunch of middle-aged white men

I have to be really careful here. Cos let's face it, most of this forum fits the description of being middle aged white men. And while I'm sure most of you are lovely people who are kind, considerate, and feminist. I'm having to tread a very fine line to not tar you all with the same brush, leading to #NotAllMen.

The thing is, a lot of men get away with being sexist shit bags, because other men around them who may inwardly think "I say old chap, that's not on", yet don't have the fucking balls to call them out for it. It's cliche to say that all that's required for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. But the reality is, some men have been acting pretty fucking shitty for too fucking long, and quite simply it's time some of the good guys took a stand about it. Call out behaviour when it's simply not on. Be a good ally. Women have been fighting for equality, and the simple right not to be treated like shit for centuries, and it's quite frankly exhausting.

J
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quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #52 on: 21 July, 2021, 07:20:18 pm »
Turns out it is a bit older than that. It is Scandinavian in origin though, but Swedish not Danish.
https://olympics.com/en/sports/handball/
That's field handball and indoor handball, not the beach variety (so there are three types altogether!) and the photos on that page do show women indoor handballists in shorts and t-shirts.

We used to play a game we called hand ball in PE in primary school back in the 80's and early nineties. Tho the rules look a bit different, and rather than aiming for a goal, we had to pass to a couple of people standing on a bench. But it's kinda blurry, being nearly 30 years ago. Me and one other student had got the hang of the game, and in the end the teacher insisted we be on different teams, as our team always won otherwise (this is the main reason I remember it, it's one of the few semi positive experience of sports in school I have).

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #53 on: 21 July, 2021, 07:32:13 pm »
Turns out it is a bit older than that. It is Scandinavian in origin though, but Swedish not Danish.
https://olympics.com/en/sports/handball/
That's field handball and indoor handball, not the beach variety (so there are three types altogether!) and the photos on that page do show women indoor handballists in shorts and t-shirts.

We used to play a game we called hand ball in PE in primary school back in the 80's and early nineties. Tho the rules look a bit different, and rather than aiming for a goal, we had to pass to a couple of people standing on a bench. But it's kinda blurry, being nearly 30 years ago. Me and one other student had got the hang of the game, and in the end the teacher insisted we be on different teams, as our team always won otherwise (this is the main reason I remember it, it's one of the few semi positive experience of sports in school I have).

J
Might have been a coincidentally named game? Or perhaps an adaptation for kids.

The positive experiences I remember from (secondary) school sports are breaking my arm playing baseball a couple of weeks before my O Levels, and getting stung on the sole of my foot by a bee while running barefoot.  :D
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #54 on: 21 July, 2021, 07:35:21 pm »
Call out behaviour when it's simply not on.
I'd say IMO that's what Peter has done with this thread. Not that the administrators of the sport will know anything about it of course, but every drip wears away the stone. But you might well see it otherwise?
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #55 on: 21 July, 2021, 07:35:45 pm »
I've never understood the beach volleyball rules on female dress. I had no idea that handball had the same rules (admission: I'm not exactly sure what handball is!).
ISTR handball was invented by the Danish national football coach in the 1930s as an exercise to get his squad to think tactically. Somehow it grew from there to become a sport in its own right. It's quite popular (to the extent that it's played in schools, for instance) in some parts of Eastern Europe as well as, presumably, Scandinavia. What I find odd though is the way that beach handball or beach volleyball is considered a separate game from handball or volleyball.
Turns out it is a bit older than that. It is Scandinavian in origin though, but Swedish not Danish.
https://olympics.com/en/sports/handball/
That's field handball and indoor handball, not the beach variety (so there are three types altogether!) and the photos on that page do show women indoor handballists in shorts and t-shirts.

And while it’s not as popular as football sur le Continong there are still professional leagues. The Frankfurt newspaper favoured by Miss von Brandenburg's old man devoted almost as many column inches to handball as it did to footie.
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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #56 on: 21 July, 2021, 09:25:52 pm »
Call out behaviour when it's simply not on.
I'd say IMO that's what Peter has done with this thread. Not that the administrators of the sport will know anything about it of course, but every drip wears away the stone. But you might well see it otherwise?


Thank you, Cudzo.  Just thought I'd get that in before I'm locked out (by work) again!


Amazing - I've just tried to see what I've missed but I'm prevented from seeing page 2.  I thought it would be Page 3 (if anyone goes back far enough)!

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #57 on: 21 July, 2021, 10:17:30 pm »
It’s political correctness gone mad.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Mr Larrington

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #58 on: 22 July, 2021, 12:58:07 am »
(Wonders what Peter’s Babbage-Engine will do if I edit my post with the Wikinaccurate link to turn it back into Ing. As She Is Spoke)
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #59 on: 22 July, 2021, 02:37:40 am »
That did occur to me, Larrers.  I'll leave it up to you! No sweat if you don't.  I guess the worst that might happen is that the machine will have a paroxysm, melt and flow off the table and I'll have to go on a course.  Actually, the latter is unlikely as I have form and the corporation tries to run courses without me finding out about them.  ;)

fd3

Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #60 on: 22 July, 2021, 09:20:47 am »
The thing is, a lot of men get away with being sexist shit bags, because other men around them who may inwardly think "I say old chap, that's not on", yet don't have the fucking balls to call them out for it.
This is very true, painfully so.  Did an anti bullying course and one of the things that stuck with me is that there is no such thing as a bystander, if you are a bystander you are giving tacit support to the bully.  What’s the Latin saying that translates as “those who do not speak agree with me”?
Strange things are afoot at the circle K.

fd3

Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #61 on: 22 July, 2021, 09:23:04 am »
I suspect the reasons for that, and for the women's team fine, are that the rule-givers are a bit too pleased with their position of power, and they're probably a bunch of middle-aged white men who've never even played the game. As several sports have done in the past, it's probably time for the teams and the rulemakers to part company.

Bingo!

I’d be surprised if it’s anything to do with sponsorship or what the punters have demanded.
This is so stupid that it never occurred to me. 
As in, I think you’re probably right, but I hadn’t considered that people would be this [redacted].
Strange things are afoot at the circle K.

ravenbait

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #62 on: 22 July, 2021, 09:25:43 am »
I'll bet "BUT THE SPONSORS" is the excuse they tell each other, thobut.

Sam
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TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #63 on: 22 July, 2021, 10:48:22 am »
I'll bet "BUT THE SPONSORS" is the excuse they tell each other, thobut.

Sam

Yes, maybe. I didn't spend a long time looking, but it would appear that Beach Handball (a separate code from other forms of Handball) has few, if any, sponsors, and has little exposure (sorry!) beyond things like their European Championships - which, but for this row, we'd probably never have heard of. As the code is only 19 years old, it seems unlikely that the regulators were high-level practitioners of the sport and are more likely the aforementioned middle-aged white blokes who tend to be serial busybodies (I'll bet you have several on your local council/bowling club/other outlet for pomposity) and who, as mentioned, refused the men's game permission to wear skimpier clothing. In other words, they just like having rules to play with and people to put down. While they may indeed be voyeurs, I doubt the potential publicity consequences of insisting women in the game wear revealing clothing ever crossed their tiny minds.

fd3

Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #64 on: 22 July, 2021, 11:29:44 am »
And while it’s not as popular as football sur le Continong there are still professional leagues. The Frankfurt newspaper favoured by Miss von Brandenburg's old man devoted almost as many column inches to handball as it did to footie.
I thought it was very big in many countries in Europe.  It was recently the number 4 sport in France.
Strange things are afoot at the circle K.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #65 on: 22 July, 2021, 01:20:44 pm »
And while it’s not as popular as football sur le Continong there are still professional leagues. The Frankfurt newspaper favoured by Miss von Brandenburg's old man devoted almost as many column inches to handball as it did to footie.
I thought it was very big in many countries in Europe.  It was recently the number 4 sport in France.

You do appreciate that field handball is not the topic at hand?

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #66 on: 22 July, 2021, 01:25:48 pm »
I'll bet "BUT THE SPONSORS" is the excuse they tell each other, thobut.

Sam

Yes, maybe. I didn't spend a long time looking, but it would appear that Beach Handball (a separate code from other forms of Handball) has few, if any, sponsors, and has little exposure (sorry!) beyond things like their European Championships - which, but for this row, we'd probably never have heard of. As the code is only 19 years old, it seems unlikely that the regulators were high-level practitioners of the sport and are more likely the aforementioned middle-aged white blokes who tend to be serial busybodies (I'll bet you have several on your local council/bowling club/other outlet for pomposity) and who, as mentioned, refused the men's game permission to wear skimpier clothing. In other words, they just like having rules to play with and people to put down. While they may indeed be voyeurs, I doubt the potential publicity consequences of insisting women in the game wear revealing clothing ever crossed their tiny minds.
Where did you read that? I can't find it in the bbc article. But it does add an extra layer of absurdity and bureaucratic nitpicking to the whole situation.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #67 on: 22 July, 2021, 01:29:37 pm »
Where did you read that? I can't find it in the bbc article. But it does add an extra layer of absurdity and bureaucratic nitpicking to the whole situation.

From the Wikipedia entry:

"Bikinis are the traditional outfit of beach handball. The form fitting uniform allows increased mobility and also less likely to trap sand. In 2002 the men’s BHA requested a more “form-fitting” uniform similar to the women’s’ but it was denied by the association.[2]"

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #68 on: 22 July, 2021, 01:40:56 pm »
Ta. Even more silliness.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #69 on: 22 July, 2021, 01:43:11 pm »
My Liverpool school started a handball club in the late 60's. (New PE teacher with big ideas) We practised in secret for a few months until we were good enough to beat any other local school who fancied trying it. Sadly none did and it folded. The same guy also started a Gaelic football team which got a lot more interest but apparently the GAA got wind of it and squashed it (English weren't supposed to play it in those days).

While we're on the subject is there a dress code in athletics? The few times I've watched the running male athletes seem to wear a full length singlet even though its only purpose is to provide something to pin the number to. Female athletes seem to wear a cut off top and run with a bare midriff Why?
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ravenbait

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #70 on: 22 July, 2021, 04:11:18 pm »
While we're on the subject is there a dress code in athletics? The few times I've watched the running male athletes seem to wear a full length singlet even though its only purpose is to provide something to pin the number to. Female athletes seem to wear a cut off top and run with a bare midriff Why?

I don't believe there is beyond wearing some form of clothing that does not confer an advantage.

I imagine that the male athletes in question feel they would look silly in a crop top.

Sam
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Beardy

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #71 on: 22 July, 2021, 11:32:42 pm »
I’ve fallen behind on this thread, so forgive me if I’m repeating anything.
In response to J’s comments about men wearing the same thing, where as women have to decide on what is appropriate and have they worn it before. I have, in the past, got quite annoyed at dress code rules because I’ve had to wear a dark grey suit with shirt and tie even on stupid hot days, when my female colleagues have been able to swan in wearing comfortable short skirts. That situation had changed a lot in IT by the time I left, and formal wear was only really required when visiting (new) customers ant techs could even then still get away with jeans and black T’s (regardless of gender). It certainly balanced the scales when in the base office as we all pretty much wore jeans/chinos and polo shirts/sweatshirts, although the ladies still had more flexibility in the hot weather if they chose.

As for watching sport, I mostly prefer to watch what most would have been considered as  ‘edge’ sports in the past, sailing, cycling, diving, skateboarding, snow boarding, surfing etc, but occasionally watch athletics or swimming. I watch to see the performances/competition but I’m not going to stop preferring to see women in tight clothing over men in tight clothing. That said, I wouldn’t stop watching a sport if the women all suddenly decided that they wanted to wear baggy clothes to compete, I’m watching for the sport, but I’m mature and honest enough to say that the shapely females are a pleasant addition. As I said up thread though, I DO actively avoid the beach volleyball and will also avoid the Handball because the revealing clothing mandated. I’ll add any other sport to my personal veto list if I’m told it has a code that requires the objectification of a person. But I’m not going to stop looking at and enjoying those that are comfortable with being on display. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 08:55:53 am »
Ta. Even more silliness.

If you think about it, there's plenty of it about. Golf, tennis, bowling, and many others have 'dress codes', on and off the field of play, that at the least are silly, and sometimes discriminatory. Beardy mentions dress codes in work life, and I can vouch that in my time in the military it was sometimes impossible to be certain what it was you were supposed to wear! At least male and female uniforms were often equally uncomfortable and impractical. But (some) sport does seem to be a remaining bastion of ridiculousness.

Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 09:17:51 am »
And then there was this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/03/idiotic-fury-in-ukraine-after-female-soldiers-made-to-march-in-heels

It seems to basically be the "beach" sports that insist on skimpiness for skimpiness' sake. Which to my mind basically takes them away from proper sport, and more towards this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_Football_League  :sick:
(NB absolutely no disrespect intended towards the athletes who compete in these events, just the stupid rules that are more interested in exposed flesh than sport)

Mr Larrington

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Re: Woman Taking Different Knees?
« Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 10:49:11 am »

It seems to basically be the "beach" sports that insist on skimpiness for skimpiness' sake. Which to my mind basically takes them away from proper sport, and more towards this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legends_Football_League  :sick:


 :o
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