Author Topic: Using a phone instead of a GPS device  (Read 24326 times)

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #75 on: 03 August, 2020, 01:37:07 pm »
There may well be a simple case of economics for Garmin vs Samsung.  Samsung make and sell literally millions of phones annually so can surely manufacture to an economy of scale that Garmin or other manufacturers of similar equipment simply cannot.

I disagree. How many units do Garmin sell worldwide of each model? I'd wager a bet it's enough of an advantage to avail of economy of scale for each and every model. They are an established company with a pedigree (or NOT if you're of my opinion on Garmin as an innovator). I'll stick with my mobile thank you.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #76 on: 03 August, 2020, 01:50:16 pm »
Speaking of Garmin...

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/confirmed-garmin-received-decryptor-for-wastedlocker-ransomware/ 


I guess Garmin will be kicking innovation into the long grass after paying that!  :-[

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #77 on: 03 August, 2020, 01:58:31 pm »
There may well be a simple case of economics for Garmin vs Samsung.  Samsung make and sell literally millions of phones annually so can surely manufacture to an economy of scale that Garmin or other manufacturers of similar equipment simply cannot.

I disagree. How many units do Garmin sell worldwide of each model? I'd wager a bet it's enough of an advantage to avail of economy of scale for each and every model. They are an established company with a pedigree (or NOT if you're of my opinion on Garmin as an innovator). I'll stick with my mobile thank you.

Garmin clearly makes millions of units but their market is more niche and restricted somewhat compared to the almost unbiquitous use of mobile phones.  I would reckon on Samsung being able to drive far greater economies of bulk manufacture than Garmin can.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #78 on: 03 August, 2020, 02:19:44 pm »
The problem with screen on only at turns is that there are plenty of turns where the map doesn’t recognise it as such.  So you’ll drift right past the turn unawares.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #79 on: 03 August, 2020, 02:23:00 pm »

As a general rule, I feel reasonably confident that my eTrex will have recorded a track at the end of the ride, where I'm never quite sure when I use the Strava app or similar.

On Sat I thought my etrex hadn’t recorded the first 40 mins of my audax restart ride.  Then in a duh moment remembered that it archived the current track at midnight, and that I’d started before midnight to get to the start.  It was all there in the previous day archived track.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #80 on: 03 August, 2020, 05:37:21 pm »

As a general rule, I feel reasonably confident that my eTrex will have recorded a track at the end of the ride, where I'm never quite sure when I use the Strava app or similar.

On Sat I thought my etrex hadn’t recorded the first 40 mins of my audax restart ride.  Then in a duh moment remembered that it archived the current track at midnight, and that I’d started before midnight to get to the start.  It was all there in the previous day archived track.

As a regular (at least before 2020 happened) night rider I hated that behaviour.  "Archive when full" makes more sense, except what happens is that you rarely cause the track memory to become full, so on the odd occasion[1] it does happen you panic and think you've lost the data.

With the old HCx, you only had to care about the copy on the SD card, where it was clear that it had started a new file at midnight because of the filenames.  (It was also a lot more idiot/gloves proof against accidental deletion.)


[1] Because I've turned the logging to point-per-second for track racing and then forgotten about it, usually.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #81 on: 03 August, 2020, 06:30:37 pm »

As a general rule, I feel reasonably confident that my eTrex will have recorded a track at the end of the ride, where I'm never quite sure when I use the Strava app or similar.

On Sat I thought my etrex hadn’t recorded the first 40 mins of my audax restart ride.  Then in a duh moment remembered that it archived the current track at midnight, and that I’d started before midnight to get to the start.  It was all there in the previous day archived track.

As a regular (at least before 2020 happened) night rider I hated that behaviour.  "Archive when full" makes more sense, except what happens is that you rarely cause the track memory to become full, so on the odd occasion[1] it does happen you panic and think you've lost the data.

With the old HCx, you only had to care about the copy on the SD card, where it was clear that it had started a new file at midnight because of the filenames.  (It was also a lot more idiot/gloves proof against accidental deletion.)


[1] Because I've turned the logging to point-per-second for track racing and then forgotten about it, usually.

Archive when full can still cause it to crash if you go beyond 10,000 track points in current tracklog. Had that happen on a 400 a few years back.  Hence why I have archive at midnight and usually have it also set to record less often.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #82 on: 03 August, 2020, 09:19:32 pm »
The problem with screen on only at turns is that there are plenty of turns where the map doesn’t recognise it as such.  So you’ll drift right past the turn unawares.

That's where the option to alert you if you stray more than x metres from your route comes in handy  :thumbsup:

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #83 on: 03 August, 2020, 11:58:28 pm »
The more I see of the 1030, my belief that the 705 was the Windows XP of Garmins is affirmed!

"Close, but no cigar" ??
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #84 on: 04 August, 2020, 12:03:32 am »
The more I see of the 1030, my belief that the 705 was the Windows XP of Garmins is affirmed!

"Close, but no cigar" ??

"We all took the piss at the time, but in many ways it turned out to be the least worst version they came out with." ?

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #85 on: 25 September, 2020, 04:02:28 pm »

I hadn't thought of the crashiness thing.  Android things crash (or get silently killed by the OS) all the time, especially if there's Bluetooth involved.... 

As a general rule, I feel reasonably confident that my eTrex will have recorded a track at the end of the ride, where I'm never quite sure when I use the Strava app or similar.

This hasn't been an issue for me - I've done about 4,000 km with no crashes at all on my phone.

That may be because I'm using a dedicated phone with no other apps installed and which I don't use for any other processes apart from navigation, hence the OS doesn't ever get overloaded.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #86 on: 25 September, 2020, 04:06:59 pm »
There may well be a simple case of economics for Garmin vs Samsung.  Samsung make and sell literally millions of phones annually so can surely manufacture to an economy of scale that Garmin or other manufacturers of similar equipment simply cannot.

I disagree. How many units do Garmin sell worldwide of each model? I'd wager a bet it's enough of an advantage to avail of economy of scale for each and every model. They are an established company with a pedigree (or NOT if you're of my opinion on Garmin as an innovator). I'll stick with my mobile thank you.

Garmin clearly makes millions of units but their market is more niche and restricted somewhat compared to the almost unbiquitous use of mobile phones.  I would reckon on Samsung being able to drive far greater economies of bulk manufacture than Garmin can.

The comparison I was making was Garmin vs Cubot, not Samsung. 

Granted, Cubot will buy their screens from someone with enormous scale, but their unit sales may not be bigger than Garmin

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #87 on: 08 June, 2022, 05:29:01 pm »
If anyone is interested, I am back to phone app (BikeComputer Pro), and am now getting over 8 hours battery life from my old Samsung A3 phone.  I had a breakthrough after chatting with the developer, who told me how to switch to permanent dark mode.  I think I could probably get more by managing the screen brightness more aggressively. 

I flirted with a Stages Dash for a few months, really just to get battery life, but had to send that back as it had software issues.  But with 8+ hours, I may stick with the phone for good now. 

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #88 on: 08 June, 2022, 06:18:49 pm »
Can't remember if you said you had but did you ever give Locus maps a go. Amazing app but there is a learning curve and if you don't use it much you'll need a refresher.

I will have a look at BikeComputer though.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #89 on: 08 June, 2022, 08:15:53 pm »
No. I looked at Locus but it didn't do power

Arellcat

  • Velonautte
Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #90 on: 26 March, 2023, 10:34:29 pm »
So taking this a step further, I took an old Samsung A3 smartphone and carried out a factory reset followed by an install of "Oruxmaps" with offline UK mapping, together with Brouter and "GPS Status" apps.  Using the phone in flight mode and location set to "GPS only"...

Why the A3, particularly?  Did you have one knocking around, or was it because of its relative robustness?

Reason I'm interested is to try something similar for motorbike touring.  I already have my venerable1 Garmin 60CSx but I don't have city maps for it beyond the UK2, and for the last while I've instead been using Google maps on my phone for navigation, albeit without the audio, but my phone is becoming a bit too important to have on the handlebars, however much I trust my Ram X-Grip, and I'd like an offline solution rather than relying on phone data.  My bike has USB power sockets so I'm sorted in that regard.

Of course if money were no object I'd look at a Garmin Montana 700 or something posh like that.

1 This is putting it kindly, inasmuch as sometimes a hefty knock makes the screen go off.  It also doesn't like the cold much these days but that could be the NiMH AAs much as anything else.  It often seems quite happy being plugged into USB when on the road.
2 I used https://garmin.bbbike.org/ today to download an OnRoad map image of France, but I don't know how to have my 60CSx run both it and the UK city navigator map, or if it's even possible.
Quote from: Morningsider
I like that you think any of your conveyances might qualify as "a disguise".

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #91 on: 26 March, 2023, 11:40:49 pm »
2 I used https://garmin.bbbike.org/ today to download an OnRoad map image of France, but I don't know how to have my 60CSx run both it and the UK city navigator map, or if it's even possible.[/sub]
The 60CSx will only support one map at once.
The map data file is called gmapsupp.img, in the "garmin" folder that shows when the GPS is put into USB mass storage mode and plugged in to a PC.

To use different maps, you've got to have the wherewithall to replace the gmapsupp.ing by another one containing different mapping data.
So on your PC, you'd have a copy of your existing data called CityNavigatorGB.img, and another file OnRoadFrance.img, take a copy of whichever you wanted  to use, rename it to gmapsupp.img, and copy it to the GPS garmin folder, overwriting what was there.
Whether the 60CSx would successfully connect to a phone using a mini to C cable is another matter.

It is possible to have several maps combined into one gmapsupp.img file, but that's not something I ever tried, as my 60CSx got broken before OpenStreetMap was mature enough to use instead of CN (shattered aerial cover, but still works OK). "mkgmap" is the tool used for the merge, as far as I remember.

Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #92 on: 02 April, 2023, 01:28:40 pm »
After having all my learning issues with the eTrex (which I still haven't really mastered) I have been using first OpenRunner's phone app (until they decided that I had used it too much and wanted paying, although my clubmates use it more without this problem) and then RWGPS. Does all I want, saves the record, syncs with the laptop automatically, just works!
I get round the battery life problem by carrying a dirty great powerbank in the rackpack and running a wire along the toptube with a couple of toeclip straps to hold it in place (I don't put it in place until the power gets below about 40%). The old phone ran out of battery fairly quickly 'cos it was dying. The Crosscall I have now claims 8 hours on gps and has a lead with a magnetic connection (but is reconditionned so may well not last as long) I haven't yet been out long enough to need to recharge.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to plan a route with RWGPS on the phone but this isn't a priority at the moment, I plan on the computer and it's all synced with the phone automatically.

Arellcat

  • Velonautte
Re: Using a phone instead of a GPS device
« Reply #93 on: 09 April, 2023, 10:41:21 pm »
To use different maps, you've got to have the wherewithall to replace the gmapsupp.ing by another one containing different mapping data. So on your PC, you'd have a copy of your existing data called CityNavigatorGB.img, and another file OnRoadFrance.img, take a copy of whichever you wanted  to use, rename it to gmapsupp.img, and copy it to the GPS garmin folder, overwriting what was there. Whether the 60CSx would successfully connect to a phone using a mini to C cable is another matter.

Turns out the OnRoad map wasn't useful because it has no street name data, so I downloaded a BBBike map of a chunk of France. I can view it in Basecamp on my Mac easily enough, and bung it onto my Garmin if need be.  I haven't tried using my phone as the source of alternative maps for the Garmin.

In the end, I bought a Samsung A320, which ought to be nicely weatherproof, and onto it I've loaded Magic Earth and about 4GB worth of OSM covering UK and most of France.  Magic Earth tells you where you're going and where you are, but not where you were; but GPS Logger does that quite nicely.  Part of the adventure for me is knowing the route I took and researching the waypoints I marked when I saw something that looked interesting.  Of course, on a motorbike I can't be mucking around with touchscreens and switching apps and pressing piddly little "annotate" buttons, so my Garmin will still be useful for that, even if I don't use it for navigation.

GPS Logger is rather neat, actually.  It runs happily with the screen off, so I can leave the phone in a pocket and tootle around until I'm done.  It doesn't have an auto-start/stop function though, which is annoying.  Even my Forerunner 35 can do that.
Quote from: Morningsider
I like that you think any of your conveyances might qualify as "a disguise".