Author Topic: Kerning that makes you cringe...  (Read 2514 times)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #25 on: 15 February, 2024, 10:16:07 pm »
This kerning krime should be easy to spot [click image to magnify my embarrassment]

I hate to break this you but the masthead is one of the least offensive things about that whole page.


Quote
I was, believe it or not

Not

a professional typesetter at the time.

Ok, you’re forgiven. :)
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #26 on: 15 February, 2024, 10:19:31 pm »
I see what you mean.

The whole right section needs to move left, the final "s" is over the margin. Horribly asymmetrical.
Is it an optical illusion, or has the final "s" dropped below the line slightly as well?
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

sam

Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #27 on: 15 February, 2024, 10:20:06 pm »
I hate to break this you...

Quote from: Oscar Wilde
The critic has to educate the public; the artist has to educate the critic.

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #28 on: 15 February, 2024, 10:29:16 pm »
@Feanor - the first thing I did was to google "kerning". That wasn't sufficient for me to understand what people were talking about. There were some jokes, which I didn't get, and a criticism of the Sadler's Wells building, which I couldn't comprehend. Looked all right to me...

So far as the original post was concerned, about a bus on fire, I had no idea what that was about.
The loss of humanity I could live with.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #29 on: 15 February, 2024, 10:47:39 pm »
@Feanor - the first thing I did was to google "kerning". That wasn't sufficient for me to understand what people were talking about. There were some jokes, which I didn't get, and a criticism of the Sadler's Wells building, which I couldn't comprehend. Looked all right to me...

So far as the original post was concerned, about a bus on fire, I had no idea what that was about.
The bus on fire thing referred to flames coming out of a light duster, spelt "D U S T E R" Cars and buses don't have light dusters. The bunch of lights on a car or bus is referred to as a light cluster.  "C L U S T E R". With bad kerning the lower case "c" and "l" of cluster get run together and look more like a "d", hence light duster.  However, in that particular case it was more likely to be a transcription or typographical error, as Beardy points out further down the thread.

"kerning error" can be referred to a "keming error" in a self referential bout of hilarity.

 
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Wowbagger

  • Former Sylph
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #30 on: 15 February, 2024, 10:53:20 pm »
Ok. I didn't know such a thing was a "light cluster". I don't recall hearing that expression before. Merçi bien!
The loss of humanity I could live with.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #31 on: 15 February, 2024, 11:42:11 pm »
Mostly, it goes un-noticed, because typographers have done the work to make it so.

Exactly this.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

cygnet

  • I'm part of the association
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #32 on: 16 February, 2024, 10:37:59 pm »
I see what you mean.

The whole right section needs to move left, the final "s" is over the margin. Horribly asymmetrical.
Is it an optical illusion, or has the final "s" dropped below the line slightly as well?

I don't think it's an illusion, it's just poor workmanship.

Individual letters on brickwork is a) harder to get right laterally (because the "ideal" fixing may line up/intersect a vertical joint) and b) really obvious when it doesn't align with the coursing.
Reasonably Inconsiderate

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #33 on: 16 February, 2024, 11:43:44 pm »
I thought it might be a feature of the typeface. Look at the a and the d - the bowl appears to sit slightly below the bottom of the stem. In Wells, the e and s appear to sit slightly below the baseline of the W and ll.

Hard to tell, really. Not possible to get up close enough for a proper inspection!

Kerning is shit either way.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #34 on: 17 February, 2024, 03:32:36 pm »
I thought it might be a feature of the typeface. Look at the a and the d - the bowl appears to sit slightly below the bottom of the stem. In Wells, the e and s appear to sit slightly below the baseline of the W and ll.

Hard to tell, really. Not possible to get up close enough for a proper inspection!

Kerning is shit either way.

I'm no expert, but it's normal for the rounded bits (bowls?) to sit lower on the baseline or even overshoot it, otherwise they don't look like they're level. Example here about halfway down, the word "Sphinx". But the important thing is that larger font sizes have a smaller overshoot as a percentage of the size.

Maybe the designer chose to enlarge a small font size deliberately based on the typical viewing distance, obviously they are designed for printing and viewing at normal reading distance. Or maybe they didn't give it much thought at all. Hard to know without looking at it directly rather than at a photo.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #35 on: 17 February, 2024, 04:07:10 pm »
Nor am I any kind expert but I’m aware it’s not an unusual feature. I was just wondering if that is the reason for the final s in Sadler’s appearing to sit below the baseline as Tim H suggests. As you say, it’s hard to tell from the picture.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #36 on: 17 February, 2024, 06:50:14 pm »
FTAOD I was agreeing with you
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #37 on: 17 February, 2024, 07:08:33 pm »
Look at the image of the main entrance here:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/venue/sadlers-wells
The lettering on the glass, mixed case and a different font, shows a similar kerning issue:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/sites/default/files/cover/Sadler%27s%20Wells%20external.jpg

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #38 on: 17 February, 2024, 08:10:29 pm »
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Kerning that makes you cringe...
« Reply #39 on: 18 February, 2024, 11:32:13 am »
Look at the image of the main entrance here:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/venue/sadlers-wells
The lettering on the glass, mixed case and a different font, shows a similar kerning issue:
https://www.uniquevenuesoflondon.co.uk/sites/default/files/cover/Sadler%27s%20Wells%20external.jpg

Even stranger that they've used a different but similar typeface on the building.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.