AAA Round the Year

[Chris S]

Clear A/B roads is a misleading message. I rode yesterday on a B-road that motorists were treating as 'clear'; but there was enough slush around to cause a 2-wheeler an accident, and there is plenty of ice on junctions etc that motorists don't care about.[and remember we have to remove the No Cycling sections of A-road from our planning]. I would be very wary setting off, say, tomorrow morning to ride 200km anywhere in the UK.

You are clearly in the wrong part of the country. I could set out from here and do a B road circuit around Norfolk, completely ice/snow free, right now. If it's not suitable where you are, and you want to get out for a 200, then ask around about conditions in other areas.

Anyway - moot point now, daytime highs will be between 5 and 8c by the weekend.

[JayP]

Ask yourself this question
Suppose Mike and Steve were to become exasperated, throw their hands in the air and say “cobblers to this the awards are hereby withdrawn”. Would you;
(a)   Not give up your long unbroken record and continue to make sure you got in a 200k ride/AAA ride each successive calendar month?
(b)   No longer see the point in bothering?
 
My take on these possible answers is

If (a) then the award is less important to you than the challenge. In this case changes to the rules may matter to the organisers but not much to you. You will carry on measuring your performance by the same standards.

If (b) then the challenge is less important to you than the award. You appreciate the added value that Audax structure and practice bring to your ‘its only a bike ride’ bike rides.

Most of us are a mixture of both I think.
 

[MSeries]

I think so too. I won't worry at all if I don't get another RRTY though riding a rando every month is good for my health

[mattc]

Clear A/B roads is a misleading message. I rode yesterday on a B-road that motorists were treating as 'clear'; but there was enough slush around to cause a 2-wheeler an accident, and there is plenty of ice on junctions etc that motorists don't care about.[and remember we have to remove the No Cycling sections of A-road from our planning]. I would be very wary setting off, say, tomorrow morning to ride 200km anywhere in the UK.

You are clearly in the wrong part of the country. I could set out from here and do a B road circuit around Norfolk, completely ice/snow free, right now. If it's not suitable where you are, and you want to get out for a 200, then ask around about conditions in other areas.

Anyway - moot point now, daytime highs will be between 5 and 8c by the weekend.

I still say I would be wary of riding in your area. I don't know it well enough, and we would be opening Yet Another Can of Worms if i fell off on roads approved by your good self!

[Temperatures do look good for the weekend, don't they? ]

[MSeries]

[Temperatures do look good for the weekend, don't they? ]

not here.

[Chris S]

[Temperatures do look good for the weekend, don't they? ]

not here.

Wellll.... it's grim up north, in'tit?

Jump on a train and go south.

[DanialW]

Clearly someone has never heard of studded tyres... or are all the people who routinely cycle in countries where this weather would be considered mild, "stupid and dangerous"? Are the shops doing a roaring trade in winter tyres "acting recklessly"?

Fundamentally, longer audaxes (along with things like 24h TTs) positively encourage people to use the public road system in a state of extreme exhaustion that we would find totally deplorable in a motoring event. You can't tell me that "encouraging" peopel to ride a 200 when it's cold, is as bad as encouraging them to ride for (potentially) 40 hours without a break?

Ah, I was waiting for the 'smug Scandinavian'* response. Aside from the patronising tone of your post, you make the assumption that riders have studded tyres. In the UK, they rarely do. As has already been pointed out on this thread, repeatedly, these are exceptional weather conditions. Not for Tromso, but for the UK.

Is cycling on studded tyres stupid? Dunno. Never tried it? Are shops reckless in selling studded tyres? No more than selling a helmet encourages reckless cycling (which it does not.)

Comparing cycling on ice to riding a 600 non-stop is a lousy analogy. Nobody cycles 40 hours without a break. AUK regs prevent it happening anyway by insisting on controls. I'm certainly tired after a 600, but extreme exhaustion? Hardly.

You have studded tyres? Great! Go for it! Go ride in January. Then, perhaps you can tell everyone how you didn't need the extension to RRTY because you rode a January perm on your studded tyres. Perhaps you could post it on here. I'm sure people would love to read your ride report. Maybe we could put asterisks by the names of people who did or didn't need the extension, just so everyone knows. Perhaps we could have special gold asterisks for those who managed a January RRTY, or perhaps fade out slightly the names of people who took advantage of the regulation relaxation.

*yes, I know Edinburgh is not in Scandinavia.

[MSeries]

[Temperatures do look good for the weekend, don't they? ]

not here.

Wellll.... it's grim up north, in'tit?

Jump on a train and go south.

If I cared that much about yet another RRTY I'd fly to Majorca, LBIA is now open again. As it happens this weekend I hope to be socialising on the winter DNYFRRTY

[EdinburghFixed]

Ah, I was waiting for the 'smug Scandinavian'* response. Aside from the patronising tone of your post, you make the assumption that riders have studded tyres. In the UK, they rarely do. As has already been pointed out on this thread, repeatedly, these are exceptional weather conditions. Not for Tromso, but for the UK.

I don't assume anything of the sort - nobody I know has studded tyres (including me - not for the recumbent anyway!). The point I was challenging is this weird idea that because it is cold, it is irresponsible to ride. That is only true if you don't bother to use the appropriate equipment.

It wouldn't be surprising if the London-Brighton was cancelled in these conditions but Audax is supposed to be about self-reliance and challenge. If in the process of a long ride it got icy, I wouldn't blame anyone for packing but neither would I expect the weather to provide a DNF get-out clause.

There is nothing unusual about the conditions we are seeing apart from their duration. We get snow and ice up here every year, you know!

Comparing cycling on ice to riding a 600 non-stop is a lousy analogy. Nobody cycles 40 hours without a break. AUK regs prevent it happening anyway by insisting on controls. I'm certainly tired after a 600, but extreme exhaustion? Hardly.

So the many stories of people falling asleep by the side of the road (or better still, choosing a trike because if you doze off you won't crash) are lies then? Who knew.

Maybe we could put asterisks by the names of people who did or didn't need the extension, just so everyone knows. Perhaps we could have special gold asterisks for those who managed a January RRTY, or perhaps fade out slightly the names of people who took advantage of the regulation relaxation.

Seems like a better idea at least would be to wait until the end of January before granting an extension, since it is about to thaw massively and we're only 1/3 through the month. But yes, anyone who was audacious enough to manage a January 200 this year will have my extra respect.

[EdinburghFixed]

Since that was a bit rambling, I guess what I'm trying to say is: people who want to say they did a ride every month of the year, should have done so. If the weather is bad, that simply means that a proportion of people won't ride every month of the year, that year.

Because they... well, wouldn't have.

[Paul D]

We could bicker about this all month. My two penn'ith:

The only people impressed by audax awards are other audaxers in my experience. My one and only year of RRTY was met by a 'but, why?' from my road-racing club mates. Why indeed?

Why not let the officials get on with what they want to do and just ride if you want to, when you want to, after doing your own risk assessment? If you're the kind of person who would ride a snowy 200 then you're probably the kind of person who wants to brag about it to your audax mates. Great; audax is all about doing things other people don't/can't/haven't. The snow actually means your bragging opportunities have increased with the decrease in the numbers willing to ride the conditions. Don't forget, a well executed limb-break also comes with some bragging rights.

So, my personal answer to 'Why?' is 'to see if I could'. I did. Bonus: they gave me a badge for it. But it was the feat that was the prize for me.


Paul (owner of some studded tyres but with nothing to prove)

[MSeries]

. Don't forget, a well executed limb-break also comes with some bragging rights.

it doesn't. the bragging rights come when you get back in the saddle and start again 6 months later -- if you are lucky.

[Paul D]

Sorry, that was an attempt at sarcasm. My poor writing skills are probably to blame if nobody got it.

[Steve Snook]

It's great to see the cold weather hasn't dulled any of your passions for RTY of whichever sort.

We are in desperate need of more AAA Permanents in the balmier areas of the country, especially the south-east.

So how about it any of you down there?  Have you got any favourite hilly hundreds you'd like to share? Or 200s that qualify for both RTY awards?

Steve

PS it's snowing outside as I write this, again.

[EdinburghFixed]

If you're the kind of person who would ride a snowy 200 then you're probably the kind of person who wants to brag about it to your audax mates.

Perhaps. To me it's a bit like saying, "if you're the kind of person who likes to go into the hills over winter, you're probably the kind of person who wants to brag about it to your hillwalking mates". I don't think it really follows (although, I'm sure there *are* people who do it for the bragging rights).

Like winter walking, winter cycling presents certain challenges to 'fairweather' participants for which equipment exists to help the adventurous and enthusiastic to persevere. To blanket it all the activities I might do between autumn and spring as "stupid and dangerous" is really what drew me in to this debate.

FWIW for me audax is about challenging myself, and seeing a bit of the country from my bike, and meeting like-minded people (probably in that order). If I wanted to brag I'd have chosen a sport where you can wear sensible clothes

[Chris S]

So how about it any of you down there?  Have you got any favourite hilly hundreds you'd like to share? Or 200s that qualify for both RTY awards?

Having perhaps been just a teensy weensy bit critical on this thread... I'd really like to redress the balance, and help.

But the landscape hereabouts is somewhat vertically challenged... 

[mattc]

Clearly someone has never heard of studded tyres... or are all the people who routinely cycle in countries where this weather would be considered mild, "stupid and dangerous"? Are the shops doing a roaring trade in winter tyres "acting recklessly"?

Clearly someone has forgotten that Audaxes have a time limit. Riding on studs is a huge drag (riding on snow would be even more). That's not to say it couldn't be done - but so few would succeed that the award would become a very different thing.

In practice riders would attempt the possible - finishing on time with their regular Audax bike.

Fundamentally, longer audaxes (along with things like 24h TTs) positively encourage people to use the public road system in a state of extreme exhaustion that we would find totally deplorable in a motoring event. You can't tell me that "encouraging" peopel to ride a 200 when it's cold, is as bad as encouraging them to ride for (potentially) 40 hours without a break?

Actually it is clearly worse. I have ridden:
a 24H, 2x1200+, numerous 600s,

& one icy 200.

The latter was far more dangerous. The simple cause?

I know when I am getting sleepy. I do not know when I am about to fall off on some ice.

p.s. you've repeated the same error so many others have here; it's not the cold that is the problem - put on some more layers - but the road conditions. We should be looking at this more like a road closure on a calendar event - riders _could_ get past, but it may be reckless and stupid.

[Philip Whiteman]

If you're the kind of person who would ride a snowy 200 then you're probably the kind of person who wants to brag about it to your audax mates.

Perhaps. To me it's a bit like saying, "if you're the kind of person who likes to go into the hills over winter, you're probably the kind of person who wants to brag about it to your hillwalking mates". I don't think it really follows (although, I'm sure there *are* people who do it for the bragging rights).

Like winter walking, winter cycling presents certain challenges to 'fairweather' participants for which equipment exists to help the adventurous and enthusiastic to persevere. To blanket it all the activities I might do between autumn and spring as "stupid and dangerous" is really what drew me in to this debate.

FWIW for me audax is about challenging myself, and seeing a bit of the country from my bike, and meeting like-minded people (probably in that order). If I wanted to brag I'd have chosen a sport where you can wear sensible clothes

And as a reasonably accomplished mountaineer, who also rides audaxes, I would like to say that no sound minded hill-walker unnecessarily exposes themself to high risk - and if they did, I would be lined up with MRT colleagues wishing to string them from the nearest lamp-post with a climbing rope.  In fact for winter climbers, the current conditions are excellent providing excellent winter walking/climbing.   In current conditions I would be far safer attached to my axe on an ice-climb than dodging cars slithering across sheet ice on the nearest principal A road . As a road cyclist and a climber, this is one of the instances where cycling is far more dangerous than a blasting of winter weather on the nearest munro.

Fair do to Mike and Steve for providing the 59 day month - a totally responsible act.

[Weirdy Biker]

We are in desperate need of more AAA Permanents in the balmier areas of the country, especially the south-east.

Ah, you noticed!  Whereas those up north can validly complain about the lack of events to get an RRTY without significant travel, we in the south east can say the same about the AAARRTY.  Indeed, if the two events organised by Andy Sevior are cancelled, then my AAARRTY gets trashed before it even begins.

I can think of some routes in the South East that could be "permified" and are likely to be eligible for AAA points but they all generally require information controls.  Put simply, the hills down here are plentiful but tend to be bunched up so you have to zig-zag.  I was under the impression that permanents with info controls are now frowned upon, to the extent that new permanents aren't accepted if they have these?  Hence why I've not submitted my AAA-rated calendar event (which started out life as a DIY perm, with the usual distance penalty this incurs) as a permanent.

I suspect this will all change, however, if Danial's excellent GPS initiative takes off.  South East riders will find it much easier to get their AARTY based on local rides.

[EdinburghFixed]

And as a reasonably accomplished mountaineer, who also rides audaxes, I would like to say that no sound minded hill-walker unnecessarily exposes themself to high risk - and if they did, I would be lined up with MRT colleagues wishing to string them from the nearest lamp-post with a climbing rope.  In fact for winter climbers, the current conditions are excellent providing excellent winter walking/climbing.   In current conditions I would be far safer attached to my axe on an ice-climb than dodging cars slithering across sheet ice on the nearest principal A road . As a road cyclist and a climber, this is one of the instances where cycling is far more dangerous than a blasting of winter weather on the nearest munro.

You might think so, but as I'm sure you're aware, conditions were terrible over new year with avalanches everywhere (including at least three fatalities I've heard of). A couple in the bunkhouse with us narrowly missed being avalanched off a climb and we struggled to find routes which did not have high (or at least, significant) avalanche risk on one or more of the aspects we wanted to use. The days we went ice-biking certainly felt safer to me!

I thought Edinburgh / the Borders  had it quite bad but clearly the rest of the country must be much worse, as here most roads are more or less back to normal. We are happily commuting on 23mm slicks again

[Noodley]

We are in desperate need of more AAA Permanents in the balmier areas of the country...

Although I doubt you are counting Ecosse as a balmy area, I shall.  Yes, we need more AAA events/Perms in Scotland.

[Steve Snook]

Although I doubt you are counting Ecosse as a balmy area, I shall.  Yes, we need more AAA events/Perms in Scotland.

What a star! Weren't some bits of the west coast green in that (in)famous picture last week?


Steve

[DanialW]

The point I was challenging is this weird idea that because it is cold, it is irresponsible to ride. That is only true if you don't bother to use the appropriate equipment.

...

There is nothing unusual about the conditions we are seeing apart from their duration. We get snow and ice up here every year, you know!

...

So the many stories of people falling asleep by the side of the road (or better still, choosing a trike because if you doze off you won't crash) are lies then? Who knew.

No, not cold, icy. We're not talking about cold weather, but ice on the road. It was about ten degrees warmer today, and absolutely lethal. I went AOT (walking) on a road that looked wet, but was in fact covered with black ice, which was covered in a thin layer of water. It was far more dangerous than last week.

As you say, it's the duration of this cold spell that is the issue. Holme Moss has been closed to traffic for weeks now, which is unheard of. We cancel events when it is icy on the day, and people accept that wholeheartedly. Well, it's now been icy for nearly a month already. It's a tough call, and I'm really surprised that people haven't been more supportive of Mike's and Steve's decision.

As for the 'stories' you talk of, of people falling asleep at the wheel, let's get one thing absolutely clear, Audax UK does not, as you suggested earlier, encourage people to cycle "40 hours without a break". Quite the opposite. The very nature of audax riding demands breaks every few hours. If someone is falling asleep at the wheel, and still riding, they are an idiot. LEL/PBP etc are perfectly do-able with sleep every night.

Thinking of heroic stories reminds me of a debate the LEL committee are having. An analysis of rider patterns at LEL shows that most riders sleep each night. The numbers surprised us, to be honest. Even with the lousy weather (or maybe because of it), most riders slept every night. There's a real danger we allow a good story to cloud our judgement of what audaxing is about to the overwhelming majority of riders.

All the best rides are a little bit scarey, but I really think we're losing a little perspective here.

[JayP]

From my local club (Macc Whs) web site last week. Posted  by John Jackson

Roads which are gritted see http://www.cheshireeast.gov.uk/PDF/Winter_grit_0910.pdf
This will show which roads are clear. However, the road between Macc and Alderley was gritted but was slippery in places as the traffic was too light to allow the salt to spread. It took over an hour to get from Macc to Alderley last night only about 10 cars passed me, any climbs/descents/bends were walked.
General advice:-

Gritted roads are normally OK. (remember to wash your bike).
Beware of black ice. (This has a film of water on top of the ice and is very slippery). Black ice often occurs during the day as the ice starts to melt.
New snow is great fun to ride in and is not too slippery. Also if deep is soft to fall into. Mudguards can cause problems, cross bike, MTB or mudguards with plenty of clearance are OK
The biggest problem is when melted snow / slush refreezes. This creates frozen ruts which are very dangerous. (Beware on roads early in the morning which were gritted the previous night)
Avoid braking on ice especially with the front brake. If you do need to brake apply the brake gently to avoid the wheel from stopping. I ride fixed in winter.
Use low gears, keep the speed down.
Use tyres with a good tread
The other problem in very cold weather is moving parts freezing. typically freewheels, brake cables and gear cables. I have also seen ice build up on rims and brake callipers freezing. The cause is water freezing so repel water by ensuring your cables are well greased, brake callipers are greased and your block is lubricated. Ice on rims can occur if you ride though water and do not brake afterwards to clear the water off the rims

See also London Cycling Campaign - London cyclists brave snowy conditions

and this road.cc's tips for riding on ice… and snow | road.cc | The website for pedal powered people: Road cycling, commuting, leisure cycling and racing

[JayP]

And of course the next big safety issue now that a thaw is in the offing will be POTHOLES.