Author Topic: Central heating thermostat (Read 11236 times)

ScumOfTheRoad · « **Reply #50 on:** 13 November, 2018, 07:45:47 am »

Reviving this thread. Looking for advice on which smart home thermostat to choose.
I live in a two bedroom two bathroom apartment. I find that the temperature is never right in our lounge, which has two radiators but is complicated by having an enormous window facing south which captures heat when it is sunny.
I have a gas condensing boiler. The boiler is connected directly to a wall unit marked Salus in the cupboard. There is a remote wireless unit which is used to set the temperature.

I recently got an Amazon Echo Dot, so any smart system should be Amazon compatible.
I rather like the idea of wireless remote control TRVs, so we could maybe heat the bedrooms on demand and keep them cooler otherwise.
I am a British Gas customer, but not particularly sold on the Hive system unless folks think it is the bees knees.

Also ideally I would like a smart system which recognises when Mrs Scum comes home and switches up the heating for her.
I guess just Mrs S asking "Alexa - turn on the heating" would be sufficient.

sojournermike · « **Reply #51 on:** 13 November, 2018, 07:54:08 am »

Don’t know if it’s Alexa compatible as I don’t have Alexa or equivalent, but I like our Honeywell Evohome setup. I did it myself as plumber thought it ‘too complicated’. Individual room control with no need to Felipe.

Mike

ian · « **Reply #52 on:** 13 November, 2018, 08:05:49 am »

Well, they're fitting my Hive next week. Seemed to tick the boxes. I'm don't especially see the point of voice-control unless you'd habitually left tied naked to the bed by Madame Spankopoulis (while she pops out to Sainsbury's to stock up on whipped cream) and the bedroom is prone to the occasional drafty chill. In which case, it's probably useful to have Alexa turn up the heating. Or you could just get the whipped cream beforehand. Generally, I get dressed before addressing Alexa, it feels weird otherwise.

Turning it up and down and on-off remotely seems the best thing. I think it has geofencing, but generally having it turning on when I'm at the bottom of the drive isn't useful. Probably has some kind of radius feature though.

Heat · « **Reply #53 on:** 13 November, 2018, 01:44:01 pm »

Hi
That could be because the room temperature is 25 degrees. If that's not the case then you would need to replace it. It's very easy to install. We recommend the programmable thermostat for its energy saving features. You can set it to go on just before you get home and to go off when no one is home.

DuncanM · « **Reply #54 on:** 13 November, 2018, 03:47:51 pm »

I'm thinking I'll go for Tado. You can get the generic install with one thermostat, which makes it like a Hive/Nest, but you can also add thermostatic radiator valves for controlling temperature room by room (or floor by floor - we have a townhouse, so 3 floors).
I'm sitting on my hands and waiting for Black Friday to see if there are any deals though (there were for Hive and Nest in Amazon last year).

Feline · « **Reply #55 on:** 13 November, 2018, 04:20:41 pm »

Weve had a Nest for a while here. Extremely handy to be able to adjust the temperature from the comfort of the sofa, or when in bed. When we are all out it turns the tmperature down to 17.5C which is the lowest my cats will tolerate.

If you’re on your way home from an Audax / wet dog walk/ soaking motorbike ride you can pre-heat the house to 26C for your arrival. A bit disconcerting for anyone already in the house sometimes

I like the way the Nest app also has your Nest camera feeds in it so dont need a separate app for that. I wish our Philips Hue lighting was within the same app too really.

ian · « **Reply #56 on:** 13 November, 2018, 04:58:50 pm »

It could all go wrong if one inadvertently turns on the camera rather than the heating while waiting for Madame S to pop back from Sainsbury's.

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #57 on:** 13 November, 2018, 05:02:09 pm »

Quote from: Feline on 13 November, 2018, 04:20:41 pm

When we are all out it turns the tmperature down to 17.5C which is the lowest my cats will tolerate.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask, how do you know? Do you come home to them all piled on top of each other while wearing your hats & scarves?

ian · « **Reply #58 on:** 13 November, 2018, 08:15:36 pm »

They write protest letters and then, if ignored, bring out the placards and slogans.

Mine are going to hate me, especially Bad Cat if she can't belly-hammock the living room radiator.

Feline · « **Reply #59 on:** 13 November, 2018, 10:47:42 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 13 November, 2018, 05:02:09 pm

Quote from: Feline on 13 November, 2018, 04:20:41 pm
When we are all out it turns the tmperature down to 17.5C which is the lowest my cats will tolerate.

I'm sorry, but I have to ask, how do you know? Do you come home to them all piled on top of each other while wearing your hats & scarves?

Our 3 Ragdolls, whilst mostly non-verbal and lacking opposable thumbs are extremely good at communicating displeasure to their huuumins

MikeFromLFE · « **Reply #60 on:** 14 November, 2018, 04:03:18 pm »

Quote from: DuncanM on 13 November, 2018, 03:47:51 pm

I'm thinking I'll go for Tado. You can get the generic install with one thermostat, which makes it like a Hive/Nest, but you can also add thermostatic radiator valves for controlling temperature room by room (or floor by floor - we have a townhouse, so 3 floors).
I'm sitting on my hands and waiting for Black Friday to see if there are any deals though (there were for Hive and Nest in Amazon last year).

I like the flexibility of individual room thermostats. I would probably bite the bullet on the expense and go with Tado if I were starting this process all over again - as I've said somewhere here before, I've got a German system (bought through Conrad) that works very well for me, but that I'd find it really hard to recommend to anyone else.

ian · « **Reply #61 on:** 23 November, 2018, 10:55:37 am »

Finally got my Hive thing. The engineer ran off before he'd finished it (5.30pm wasn't it) with the words 'it just takes a bit of time to pair' which meant the thermostat was still attempting this an hour later like some kind of tiring electronic foreplay.

It's a bugger to set up since three devices have to talk to each other which involves getting them all into pairing mode, which involves a festival of precise clicking and holding of random buttons. The only exception is the hub which has a pairing button. Which, of course, appears mostly undocumented. Some of it comes close to taking the piss, holding two stiff buttons on the thermostat while inserting the batteries (which was evidently unnecessary, just rebooting the thermostat was fine). Designers of consumer hardware take note – pairing a Sonos speaker, for instance, involves pressing a single button and getting a cheerfully responsive ding.

Anyway, some time and swearing later... Top tip, lock the doors until you're sure the engineer has finished everything.

Seems fine, warm stuff came out as planned and the shower was hot. Only real other gripe is the scheduler which doesn't let you schedule past midnight in any intuitive way (you have to 'pull' the slot from the next day) – fine once you know how, but a bit of a software fail that left me scratching my head for several minutes. Otherwise, it's all fairly straightforward to control via the app and a lot better than the clunky old wall-mounted controller. You can nudge your schedules about quite easily, like this morning as my wife is working from home, so it's a few seconds to start the heating at 7.30 rather than 5.30am. Previously that would have involved twenty minutes with the options on the controller which frankly I wouldn't have bothered with.

You can turn it on by shouting at Alexa. Unfortunately, you can't switch it back to the schedule by shouting at Alexa. This seems to be the curse of every Alexa skill though, you can do but never undo. It's like the developer of every skill does half and then breaks for lunch and never comes back (which I suppose has a kind of symmetry). To be fair, quite useful if you wake up before the heating is scheduled to come on – previously you'd have to risk hypothermia and tripping over a cat headfirst down the stairs in your rush to press the advance button in hallway cupboard.

Yeah, yet another bloody hub in the technological cupboard of shame under the stairs.

gonzo · « **Reply #62 on:** 23 November, 2018, 05:03:40 pm »

Have Hive. Pretty happy with it. About 18 months after fitted, when the battery drained in 2 weeks I phoned them and they fixed it remotely for me. I remember thinking that their phone support was superb, but I've no idea why.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #63 on:** 23 November, 2018, 05:10:13 pm »

'home' has a Nest.
It also has a (functioning) dishwasher, a large fancy fridge, two freezers and more pots and pans than you can shake a stick at.

I'm living in a househare that doesn't even have radiators in all the rooms, the central heating goes off completely at 10:30, the fridge doesn't work (I have one shelf) and there is one decent pan (mine).

Remind me again why fuck I'm doing this?

ian · « **Reply #64 on:** 23 November, 2018, 06:25:26 pm »

I dunno. Is there a sexy robot?

gonzo · « **Reply #65 on:** 23 November, 2018, 06:34:40 pm »

It's worth noting that anyone who's feeling excited by the prospect of smart home heating should buy today when it's lots of money off.

Eg. link

ian · « **Reply #66 on:** 21 February, 2019, 09:00:07 pm »

BG sent me a Hive leak sensor. What the hell, it was free, so I stuck on the pipe as instructed.

Don't bother. It's actually a highly efficient false alarm detector.

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #67 on:** 24 October, 2021, 05:12:34 pm »

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but why not...

New Pingu Towers has a brand spanking new combi boiler (Dec 2020) but unfortunately they kept the ancient old programmer and thermostat (in the freaking hall, FFS). According to the installation guide which I was reading this morning (yes, I know, get a life) no weather compensation or anything modern of that ilk was installed (before anyone asks, Boiler Plus is not mandatory in Scotland).

Anyhoo, I have been making quite a lot of trips to the boiler to turn it up/down while the outdoor temperature is quite variable at the moment and I was thinking that being as the boiler is Opentherm compatible it might be a good idea to get a new controller which is either load or weather compensated, and will have the added benefit of not relying on that stupid hall thermostat too.

I don't think I need anything mega zonal fancy (as Ian says, cats) and I don't care about geofencing (Pingu does not use a smartphone). I'm also not that fussed about being able to control it with an app either, but it sounds like that's becoming more common. Don't think I have any particular problem with it being a learning stat as long as I still have the option to create the program myself if I don't approve...
(Although having said I don't need anything mega zonal fancy maybe with us both WFH on the first floor it might be an idea not to bother heating rads on the ground floor while we're upstairs, IDK, feel free to persuade me otherwise).

So 3 years on, what should I get?

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #68 on:** 24 October, 2021, 06:13:18 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 24 October, 2021, 05:12:34 pm

(Although having said I don't need anything mega zonal fancy maybe with us both WFH on the first floor it might be an idea not to bother heating rads on the ground floor while we're upstairs, IDK, feel free to persuade me otherwise).

Actually that's probably a really stupid idea given that the thermostat will be on the ground floor (and no, I can't be arsed with the upheaval of getting a 2nd piped in zone).

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #69 on:** 24 October, 2021, 07:16:02 pm »

I've got the Honeywell T6R left over from when Mum and Dad got a new boiler that came with Wooster Bosches latest offering for temperature compensation.
I've put it in the north facing bedroom cos that's where I sleep and the south facing rooms get quite toasty on a warm day and are OK with the way I've got it all set up if not a warm day.

Reasonably happy with it and the control is actually in the units not in the cloud so if the broadband disappears it still works, which i consider critical as it also means the only thing I'll lose if Honeywell go tits up is the app control.

ian · « **Reply #70 on:** 24 October, 2021, 09:19:43 pm »

We have the Hive thing, it's very nice to able to adjust the temperature on the fly. We could move the the device upstairs but everything has been adjusted so it works fine in the hall. Setting it to 19.5 in the morning and 20.5 in the evenings seems to keep the house appropriately toasty. The radiators upstairs are on thermostatic valves that are set very low, the heat collects upstairs and it's always warmer anyway (we must have good loft insulation). That said, it has to get very cold before the heating is on during the day. The house is as well insulated as a 1960s era detached can be (double glazed, loft insulation, cavity wall - that said, it does have those enormous picture windows, not the pokey modern prison windows).

robgul · « **Reply #71 on:** 24 October, 2021, 09:43:19 pm »

Quote from: ian on 24 October, 2021, 09:19:43 pm

We have the Hive thing, it's very nice to able to adjust the temperature on the fly. We could move the the device upstairs but everything has been adjusted so it works fine in the hall. Setting it to 19.5 in the morning and 20.5 in the evenings seems to keep the house appropriately toasty. The radiators upstairs are on thermostatic valves that are set very low, the heat collects upstairs and it's always warmer anyway (we must have good loft insulation). That said, it has to get very cold before the heating is on during the day. The house is as well insulated as a 1960s era detached can be (double glazed, loft insulation, cavity wall - that said, it does have those enormous picture windows, not the pokey modern prison windows).

Ditto here with Hive and similar temperature settings - mid-60s detached with loads of loft insurlation. A couple of the rooms have "timer valves" that in effect override the Hive heating controls [Example: one room is used for about an hour each day by my wife for yoga - the timer valve opens about 20 minutes ahead of the usual time and shuts off at the time she normally finishes - thus the room, if the main house thermostat is calling for heat, warms to about the same as the rest of the house just for that period. Door is kept closed when no in use. Works a treat.]

The other thing that's great with Hive is that you can control light bulbs and power plug/sockets - Examples: coffee machine (think Starbucks style but just 1 group!!) switches on at 0530 and off at 2030 to save electricity overnight, and the 2 PCs, printers and other peripherals all switch off on one socket from 2300 - 0630.

Ham · « **Reply #72 on:** 25 October, 2021, 08:30:25 am »

As a Google Fanboi, I'm into Nest for the last couple of years, with some interesting experiences.

Mrs Ham is a cold mortal, I am a hottie. This has always been a matter of gentle tension, it seemed to me that introducing thermosmarts and giving Mrs Ham Teh Power To Change on her phone might help.

Here's the deal: We do not experience comfort in relation to the indicated temperature. Your boiler will always be controlled from a measurement at a single spot or spots. The Nest AI smarts is awesome, it learns what you want. It learned that Mrs Ham is a cold mortal and started to turn the heating on at 3 in the morning so the house would be warm when she got up (that's a single example, there are others). So, given our uncomplicated lifestyle at the moment - we don't go nowhere - all smarts have been removed and it is being used as a dumb programmer. If you have an affinity for things technical it would likely work well for you, but chez Ham Hall, "It has a mind of its own". I have refrained from highlighting that is actually the USP.

What you can do, and something people mostly fail to, is to balance your heating. TRVs are all well and good, but because of the pipe layout it is usual for one or two rooms to be slowest to heat. If that is an issue, you can use the lockshield valve to turn down the flow on those that heat faster.

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #73 on:** 25 October, 2021, 06:19:17 pm »

Ok, can you tell me how the learning is accomplished in the absence of geofencing?

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #74 on:** 25 October, 2021, 06:25:14 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 25 October, 2021, 06:19:17 pm

Ok, can you tell me how the learning is accomplished in the absence of geofencing?

As I understand it, it relies on the app being installed on people's phones.

Say you have 4 people in a house and 2 have the app on their phone. Those two go out, the house cools down, the others go and turn the knob on Nest to put heating on again.

Nest 'learns' this as a pattern, and will automatically start firing the heating that that time of day.

Now, all 4 go out - Nest still fires the heating, even though the house is empty.

To work, it needs every house occupant to install the app. Nest will turn off heating (unless otherwise instructed) will turn down heating when all 4 phones are out of the house (off the wifi I think).