gearing

[hubner]

It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.

Fixed is "fixed" only when you're back pedalling, ie you're slowing the bike down, ie the so-called flywheel effect.

The straight chainline probably has a minor effect.

Arn't most hill climbs won on gears?

[LMT]

Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect

How?

If you are grinding up a hill than this is inefficient. If you are working on your pedal stroke you are better off down the local gym on a Wattbike which gives a readout of any dead spots.

[LMT]

It's a funny one with me and fixed. LMT you're right in that silly low cadences probably aren't very good for you but I find that when I do ride fixed, I really give hills a good run up and attack them so that I very rarely actually end up grinding in a silly cadence.

So ultimately it is down to the mindset of the rider and not the bike.

To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?

[Hot Flatus]

Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect

How?

If you are grinding up a hill than this is inefficient. If you are working on your pedal stroke you are better off down the local gym on a Wattbike which gives a readout of any dead spots.

By using the landscape to get a run up.
I see shit riding all the time on audaxers. People freewheeling downhill then struggling up the other side.

[grams]

To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?

Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.

It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.

The eight difference between equivalently specced bikes is negligible in the context of rider+bike(+carradice full of junk) all-up weight. Climbing speed scales linearly with weight, so tiny differences in weight make tiny differences in speed.

(Also, a lot people who ride both will be comparing a 12 kg cast iron fixie to an 8 kg carbon road bike)

[Greenbank]

To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?

Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.

On steep climbs you're often reduced to a cadence that you can only just maintain for fear of wobbling over (the limit tended to be something around a ~16% incline for me). The power input is still roughly the same whether you're grinding up on a fixed or spinning up on a geared bike. I've climbed plenty of hills at ~25rpm, the action becomes more of a stair climber than souplesse. Sure it's less efficient than climbing at 90rpm but not hugely so.

I can't just choose to attack that same climb at 50rpm (and therefore twice the speed) as I can't maintain that power input for long enough. I can maintain 200W for a 40min climb but I can only maintain 400W for 1 minute. (Adjust power figures to suit. Work it out yourself, how long can you hold 95% FTP for and how long can you hold 190% FTP for?)

It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.

The eight difference between equivalently specced bikes is negligible in the context of rider+bike(+carradice full of junk) all-up weight. Climbing speed scales linearly with weight, so tiny differences in weight make tiny differences in speed.

Sure, but it's a lot easier to buy yourself a 4.5kg improvement in bike weight than it is to run a ~35,000kcal deficit in order to lose 4.5kg of body weight.

[LMT]

Ultimately fixed is harder. But it does force you to ride efficiently I suspect

How?

If you are grinding up a hill than this is inefficient. If you are working on your pedal stroke you are better off down the local gym on a Wattbike which gives a readout of any dead spots.

By using the landscape to get a run up.
I see shit riding all the time on audaxers. People freewheeling downhill then struggling up the other side.

And...?

[LMT]

To ride in a way which accommodates the bike just makes you it's bitch, why not attack hills in the same manner but on a geared bike keeping a high cadence?

Because humans are terrible at forcing themselves to do that kind of thing. Grinding to a halt and having to walk is a huge incentive not to.

It's just weight. A lighter bike simply goes uphill faster. Some peole say weight doesn't matter but they're probably trying to sell you a heavy bike.

The eight difference between equivalently specced bikes is negligible in the context of rider+bike(+carradice full of junk) all-up weight. Climbing speed scales linearly with weight, so tiny differences in weight make tiny differences in speed.

(Also, a lot people who ride both will be comparing a 12 kg cast iron fixie to an 8 kg carbon road bike)

You fixie folk sure are clutching at straws.

bike buddy: riding the fixed today grams?
grams: 'course fam, coming to a grinding halt on those hills is a huge incentive to get up them.

Later on in the ride, grams comes to a halt after doing a paperboy that did not work whilst bike buddy carried on up the road on their 34x32.

[grams]

On steep climbs you're often reduced to a cadence that you can only just maintain for fear of wobbling over (the limit tended to be something around a ~16% incline for me). The power input is still roughly the same whether you're grinding up on a fixed or spinning up on a geared bike.

I think we're talking about shorter inclines you'll find in rolling countryside on your typical audax rather than steep or sustained climbs. A fixed gear bike forces you to attack to the *actual* limit of what you're physically capable. A geared bike encourages you to slack off, even if you think you're giving it everything.

(and for the record, three quarters of the bikes in this house have multiple gears)

Sure, but it's a lot easier to buy yourself a 4.5kg improvement in bike weight than it is to run a ~35,000kcal deficit in order to lose 4.5kg of body weight.

An Ultegra groupset weighs 2.2 kg *total*. That drops to well under a kilo once you deduct the bits you'll still need on fixed (crankset, chain, at least one brake, etc). Fixed bikes just aren't that much lighter than geared bikes (and often in practice heavier).

[rob]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?   

[Chris N]

It's like being vegan, or keto.

[tatanab]

Fixed bikes just aren't that much lighter than geared bikes (and often in practice heavier).

It is important to compare like with like.  My 653 fixed in road going trim weighs 22lbs versus 27lbs for my 725 touring bike.  Like with like.  Obviously it is the mudguards weighing them both down   I don't have anything carbon fibre to compare with, but I believe 22 lbs is considered too heavy in that market.

[LMT]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?

Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.

[zigzag]

it appears that anyone who says fixed "helps" them on dead spot hasn't learned to pedal efficiently in circles. i didn't feel any help on fixed, unless i deliberately tried to pedal in squares, i.e. mash the pedals. next time, when you can feel that fixed bike is helping you, try to pedal so that it doesn't.

as for keeping the momentum when the road goes up - it's clearly felt on ss too and is a bit of a bummer when you are in the middle of the group. you want to accelerate while the road is just getting steeper to carry the momentum as far as possible, otherwise you know you'll suffer more!

regarding efficiency - both fixed and ss drivetrains (and bikes) save around 8w compared to geared, so in the right range they are a bit quicker - that's why i chose a ss bike for one of my challenges. headwind all day long has thwarted my attempt, but still managed 613km in 24hr on 58 x 19 (81"), and it was a good preparation for pbp (i had a geared racing bike in a support vehicle, as a backup).

[rob]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?

Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.

I don't think I have.  I care very little what other people think.   That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing.  I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.

[LMT]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?

Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.

I don't think I have.  I care very little what other people think.   That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing.  I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.

C'est la vie, such is life on a public forum.

[hubner]

It seems some people are absolutely convinced that fixed "helps" them to get over the top dead spot.

They are actually slowing down the bike!

Try pedalling in circles on both fixed and freewheel, there is no difference in feel on the pedals.

[Greenbank]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?

Mostly because they've probably tried it and don't have the cojones/legs/patience/determination (delete as appropriate) to keep at it. </snark>

I ride long rides on fixed because it adds to the challenge. Picking the right gear such that going up the majority of climbs isn't too horrible and the flat (and descents) aren't overly spinny.

Also, I really like the fact that for the majority of the ride you don't have to think about what gear to be in, or chainline, or anything like that. And for a small portion of the ride you have something to focus your anger on.

[Hot Flatus]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?

Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.

I don't think I have.  I care very little what other people think.   That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing.  I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.

I dont think anyone has...or at least none of the fixie riders.

With regards to this little interaction as quoted, it helps to remember that the other party rides a recumbent 

[DuncanM]

A recumbent fixed?  Now that's a challenge!

[Nelson Longflap]

IME gears are faster and/or easier than fixed.  How much depends on how hilly it is and how fast you're trying to go.

I agree Chris 👍 , although in the context of short rides, or even "short" audaxes, the difference doesn't seem to amount to much unless it's a particularly hard ride when the ease of gears wins. I never find much difference speedwise. If anything I'm a bit faster on fixed (at least until I keel over), but I'm probably not trying hard enough on my geared bike ...

[Hot Flatus]

^ is probably the truth.

I've been doing a set 25 mile route recently. Gently undulating with no steepies.  If I want to match the same time on gears as I do on fixed I have to really concentrate on putting in the effort. On fixed that is done for me 

[rob]

Why is it when someone sees or hears of a rider on fixed they want to persuade them to use gears ?

Why is it (and it's been that the case in this thread) that fixie riders can extol the virtues of riding a fixed bike yet throw their toys out of their pram and have a pop at someone who offers a differing opinion.

I don't think I have.  I care very little what other people think.   That said this is the fixed wheel section of the forum and the OP wanted advice on gearing.  I don't see any of this as particularly helpful.

I dont think anyone has...or at least none of the fixie riders.

With regards to this little interaction as quoted, it helps to remember that the other party rides a recumbent 

and trolls pretty much every discussion they take part in.

[Hot Flatus]

Well, I can't criticise him for that given my prior achievements in that regard, but at least I did it with a sense of humour.

[Chris N]

I agree Chris 👍 , although in the context of short rides, or even "short" audaxes, the difference doesn't seem to amount to much unless it's a particularly hard ride when the ease of gears wins. I never find much difference speedwise. If anything I'm a bit faster on fixed (at least until I keel over), but I'm probably not trying hard enough on my geared bike ...

Typically I'm 5 or 6 minutes quicker on gears over a flattish 27 km commute for a similar perceived effort.  But I'm fat and unfit, my fixed is 1 kg heavier than my nice geared bike and it's only got a low-ish gear.  It's all good fun though, until someone tells me I'm doing it wrong.