Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Rides and Touring => Cyclosportives and commercial or charity rides => Topic started by: Philip Whiteman on 14 May, 2017, 02:45:45 pm

Title: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 14 May, 2017, 02:45:45 pm
There are ways of organising closed road sportives and ways not to organise closed roads sportives. This is a text book on what happens if the latter approach is adopted.


WCC - refers to Worcestershire County Council.

Source: Great Witley Parish Council Minutes.



Minuted Report of the Meeting held on
Monday 24th April 2017, 7.30pm at Great Witley Village Hall
With
Jon Fraser of WCC re VeloBirmingham



Present: Councillors: Geoff Goodman, Frank Chapman, Roger Perkins, Charles Shaw, Bill Dallow, Adrian Symonds and Jo Evans Clerk
Joined by County Councillor Ken Pollock
And members of the public

Acting Chairman, Geoff Goodman (GG) welcomed Jon Fraser, (JF) and introduced the reason for calling this meeting to those present.  Concerns over the lack of consultation from CSM Active, London organisers of the VeloBirmingham event to be held on Sunday 24th September 2017.

JF, who was happy to attend this meeting, outlined that Worcester County Council, (WCC) were approached around 18 months ago by Birmingham City Council, (BCC) regarding the proposal for this mass participation cycling event.  The event would be centred around Birmingham and the surrounding rural areas of Herefordshire and Worcestershire.  BCC appointed CSM as organisers of the event who then approached WCC to start discussions.

WCC agreed that they were interested, in principle, to considering CSM’s proposals.  WCC would require a full consultation process.  It was assumed by WCC that a ‘rolling road’ closure would operate to accommodate the 15,000 entrants of all abilities.  Before any agreement was made, CSM went ahead and launched a website and invited interested cyclists to sign up and pay the entrance fee of £75.

In principle WCC were happy to make temporary road closures but, again, before any agreement was reached CSM carried out a sporadic leaflet drop and announced the route.  This amounts to around 9 hours of road closures, something which is felt to be considerably unacceptable in the rural Worcestershire area and not agreed by WCC.

Contrary to what CSM have stated, they have not demonstrated that they can manage safety issues or that they have indeed carried out 1:1 consultations with local businesses, such conditions set out by WCC, and therefore, WCC will not grant the road closures if these are not met.

Because of their ‘wall of silence’, many local businesses and members of the public have contacted WCC, and specifically Marcus Hart (MH) and Ken Pollock (KP) to report their dissatisfaction over the handling of such a majorly disruptive event.  It should be noted that many local businesses will suffer loss of earnings should these road closures be granted.

Both WCC and HCC have written to CSM for answers to their concerns asking for a response by the end of April.  JF believes CSM are unlikely to reply within the required timeframe and therefore WCC and HCC will refuse their request for road closures during the event and their support will be withdrawn.

It is thought that 15,000 tickets have been sold at £75 each.  CSM’s publicity for the event does not seem to be very consistent.  Many residents in the affected areas have found out about VeloBirmingham by mistake, or word of mouth.

The parish of Great Witley is likely to be ‘hit’ twice by the suggested road closures, affecting the A443 and Stourport Road.  Road closures of this type is clearly unpractical.

CSM has promoted accommodation available for Birmingham City but no such publicity for Herefordshire or Worcestershire.  They have already advertised that this will be an annual event and invited entrants for 2018.

JF on behalf of WCC has requested the support of GWHHPC in refusing this event in Worcestershire and GWHHPC are happy to do this.

GG, who attended a recent presentation given by Jim Bellinger, reported two examples where a mass event of this type has worked in the city but not in the surrounding countryside.  Namely, London and Surrey and Cardiff and Gwent.

Frank Chapman (FC) suggested that if there had been a consultation process then shorter road closures and alternative routes could have been discussed.

JF will report back to GWHHPC in a couple of weeks when the deadline for CSM to reply has passed.
No diversions have been suggested, the emergency services have not been consulted, contrary to CSM claims, therefore the Police have stated that they will not be supervising the event.

Charles Shaw (CS) warned that due to the anger within the local community disruptions, confrontations and the possibility of violence should not be ruled out.

GG reported that CSM is a profit-making organisation and that entrants and the wider public may be misguided into believing that this is a wholly charitable event.

A member of the public highlighted the worrying concerns that in the small print of the terms and conditions, as set out by CSM, the route can be changed or the event cancelled without notice and no refunds of the entrance fee of £75 will be made.  It was then questioned if the whole scheme might not be a scam; making it impossible WCC and HCC to agree to support this event and thereby making them the scapegoats if entrants are forced to lose their fee.  CSM tactics seem to be aggressive.  Steaming ahead without confirmed support from WCC or HCC.  Responding to all enquires with a ‘wall of silence’ and even stating that any vehicles parked on the roads on the route will be moved.  The village of Clifton-on-Teme was used as an example where many homes do not have off road parking.  Are CSM going to remove all cars parked on the road in this village?  FC informed the room that CSM have no legal right to remove such vehicles.

KP reported that he has spoken with an entrant who appreciates the obvious flaws in this event plan and that neither himself or MH are backing VeloBirmingham.

GG closed the meeting by thanking JF for his attendance and for clearly answering the concerns of the parish of Great Witley and Hillhampton.

Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: giropaul on 14 May, 2017, 07:24:02 pm
Guess who the chair of CSM is - Lord Seb Coe!

I have met lots of ( typically the newer ) the cycling community, who are clearly expecting a Tour de France type of closed road experience. Looking at the diversity of entrants I know of - from really new inexperienced riders to those who are expecting a " high placing" - in a sportive! Therefore the closures, if they do happen, would be over several hours, not like the Tour of Britain.
I see it as a costly and cynical move to make profits, and one that will alienate many towards cycling and cyclists.
By the way, the entry cost does not include " extras" such as very expensive parking .
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 14 May, 2017, 08:09:23 pm
I see it as a costly and cynical move to make profits, and one that will alienate many towards cycling and cyclists.

AIUI there's a commonwealth games bid that hinges on them being able to demonstrate they can run an event of this magnitude...
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: essexian on 03 July, 2017, 01:47:34 pm
It seems that there have been major changes to the route:

http://road.cc/content/news/225339-major-route-changes-v%C3%A9lo-birmingham-after-local-opposition

Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 03 July, 2017, 02:26:07 pm
They have moved the 'problem' from Hereford to South Staffs and created a 'ring of steel' where movement will be severely restricted during that area of loop.  Closes main through road in village where I live and means no bus service or access within the loop to major businesses, care homes and church services during that morning to name but a few challenges.  Can't see this doing anything for local cyclists other than to get cyclists in general a bad name for all the inconvenience caused.  Also amazed that proposed road closures will be on some major arterial/spine routes that will create quite a bit of mayhem on the day as folk travelling from afar will have no idea about the closures.

Although CSM say this has been 'years in the planning' there has been no communication with local businesses and went for lunch at Ashwood Nurseries today https://www.ashwoodnurseries.com/ (https://www.ashwoodnurseries.com/)and chatting to staff who are completely oblivious to the fact there will be no access on morning of the event to their business; they are a very busy garden centre who are renown throughout the area and UK for their work and a regular winner at RHS Chelsea Flower Show who managed another gold medal along with the The Diamond Jubilee Award this year.  Can't see them being too happy about the event!

Looking forward to having a coffee with the local County Councillor for the area to discuss the challenges ahead!
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: telstarbox on 03 July, 2017, 06:02:41 pm
What a mess.

Is there an upper limit to the size of the field which can be run on open roads? Are there any standards for this or is it completely up to the local council / police to approve or insist on closed roads?
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 03 July, 2017, 06:57:34 pm
Is there an upper limit to the size of the field which can be run on open roads? Are there any standards for this or is it completely up to the local council / police to approve or insist on closed roads?

I have no doubt the police would have an opinion on a large number of cyclists using open roads, hence the need for closed roads due to 15,000 taking part.  My belief is that road closure is by a Traffic Regulation Order from the Highways department for the relevant council and the police should be consulted but will rarely intervene, unless emergency access for them is compromised in which case they put blue lights on and everyone else gets out of the way.  I assume that all police forces will have documents similar to this one:

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/Documents/About-Us/Freedom-of-Information/Policies/TrafficManagement.pdf (http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/Documents/About-Us/Freedom-of-Information/Policies/TrafficManagement.pdf)

p12-13 makes interesting reading.

Police will get involved if you hold a race on open roads as that comes under the Cycle Racing on the Highway Regulations, 1960, but on closed roads there is no perceived danger to other users.  And I believe a Sportive, such as Velo Birmingham, is not a cycle race and is not subject to cycling regulations applicable to racing.  I imagine there are considerable insurance ramifications regarding the need for closed roads.

So why would a council be interested in causing such disruption to their electorate?  Probably due to the significant income generated by road closure administration and fees they will be charging the organiser.  Hence the reason why so may Royal British Legion parades for remembrance events have been taken away from roads due to costs associated with closure or policing.

Once the local paper picks up on the extent of road closures I have no doubt 'stuff' will hit the fan.  I have advise the local county councillor to be ready for this event and offered assistance in routing options as someone who rides the roads and knows the area very well from a cycling perspective.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 06 July, 2017, 09:09:59 pm
Interesting information about what type of cycles can be used on Velo Birmingham:

The following are NOT allowed to be used by riders: bikes with disc wheels*, recumbent bicycles, electronic bikes of any kind, unicycles, penny farthings, tricycles, quad cycles, BMX bikes, fixed gear bikes / singlespeeds / fixies (allowed with two independent brakes and a freehub); any unconventional handlebars, including triathlon bars, aero bars, clip-ons, prayer bars, Spinaci bars and cow bars.

*bikes with disc brakes are allowed


No tricyles or recumbents?  Can't wait to ask how they might accommodate amputees that might be ex-military and riding for a charity that supports ex-military folk.  And no fixed gear unless you have a freehub which highlights their inexperience regarding an understanding of cycling. Doh!

T&Cs are interesting and Section 6 deals with participant obligations that would appear to ban bar ends often seen on flat bar bikes and hybrids.

https://velobirmingham.com/event-tcs/ (https://velobirmingham.com/event-tcs/)

Helmet is mandatory, so no surprise there, and best of luck to them in ensuring no riders are listening to music!
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Morat on 25 July, 2017, 07:59:18 pm
So tandems are OK then? Super. Sadly I think I might be washing my hair on that day.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 25 July, 2017, 08:09:53 pm
I wonder what makes a bike electronic?  A motor?  DI2?  A cycle computer?   ::-)
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 25 July, 2017, 09:37:23 pm
I went to a briefing by the CEO and organising team late afternoon today.  I cycled over (just for fun) and had a good chat about cycling prior to the event; I was the only attendee to arrive by such transport.  Fair to say they have done themselves no favours in what they have done thus far, but they do seem cognisant of that and have will be throwing a fair number of folk at the event on the day and are trying to do as much as they can to ameliorate the damage that has been done.

How on earth the local folk who will be inconvenienced on the day will take to it all is another question.  Sky Ride Birmingham did inconvenience folk and Ride London, along with other events, had significant effects, but folk in bigger conurbations/cities seem to take better to such events than folk out in the sticks where not much happens to disturb their normality and 15,000 cyclists effectively imprisoning them in their house/garden/road for a half day is all too much.

Look forward to receiving one of the letters they will be sending everyone on/near the route to inform them about the ride.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 14 September, 2017, 09:58:14 am
Looks like CSM's blunders have come home to roost.

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/15533448.Velo__Will_it_be_barred_from_Worcestershire_roads_next_year/
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Cpt Sisko on 26 September, 2017, 08:32:04 pm
The Wrong Birmingham

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-41393230
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 26 September, 2017, 10:04:44 pm
Did anyone here do the ride?  How was it?

The closest I got was noticing the unusually high numbers of road bikes in and around Mordor Central as I returned from the Wing weekend with a loaded tourer.  It was notable how some of the cyclists gave me the nod and others completely blanked me.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 27 September, 2017, 08:49:25 am
Did anyone here do the ride?  How was it?

The closest I got was noticing the unusually high numbers of road bikes in and around Mordor Central as I returned from the Wing weekend with a loaded tourer.  It was notable how some of the cyclists gave me the nod and others completely blanked me.

By all accounts from fellow club members, very well. Despite the horrendous lead-up to the event the actual day was very successful.  There was sabotage in Staffordshire with protesters laying oil and nails but most had been cleared away by the time riders appeared.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 27 September, 2017, 09:18:56 am
South Staffs reporting! (The Staffordshire bit of the ride)

Despite all the pre-ride objections, the event was very well received with folk out in the village cheering and encouraging them on.  2 pubs on route in the parish were isolated so they opened earlier and one provided drinks and bacon butties (riders and supporters) and one just provided drinks; the business opportunity was not missed.  The other pub, that had access by vehicles to the car park and was on route but not isolated, did not change from normal operating procedure and complained.

Sadly, some idiot put tacks down in the lane approaching the village at a pinch point (one side of road coned off due to land slip) and tacks were put down, along with a metal pole across the road, further on from the village but still very near due to the looping nature of the route.  Oil was also put down just outside a very vocal opponent of the ride.  I was on hand in village to assist with track pump and gave away 5 replacement inner tubes to those who punctured as they had used their spare.  I also provided a new shoe plate to one rider who stopped and asked for tie-wraps or tape; she was soon sorted at my home and even had the luxury of a nice toilet break! Could not help the rider who came off after puncturing on the tack area and grazed all her arm as it was just outside the village.

I agree with Phillip's comments and there are many lessons to be learnt.  I had 2 face to face discussions with the organising team (Jon Ridgeon et al) and will be contributing to the formal debrief for South Staffs/Staffordshire as I know the local county councillor and she soon realised I knew a thing or two about cycling and big cycling events.  I was running around like a madman helping riders, sorting out diversions for angry motorists/motorcyclists etc etc.  Don't like to blow a trumpet, but had I not been there it would have been there the critics would have taken over and ensued chaos prevailed.  Much more involvement of local cycle clubs to help marshal, assist, advise etc would help.

Overall, 15,000 cyclists got through with a very small amount of localised trouble (my area and idiots responsible).  Problems did occur with no food or drink at the later stops for the later riders, some of which was caused by the riders who got there earlier grabbing too much etc.  But when I reflect on the challenges of PBP (no pre-ride meal!) and LEL, then stunning achievement by the organisers.

Finally, I pre-parked my car on the open side of the village just in case someone needed to get somewhere in an emergency etc.  It had to be left there overnight.  For my support to the community, my car was 'keyed' as some folk who opposed the event know I am a cyclist and was not trying to stop the ride, rather, I just accepted it had been foisted upon us and we had no say so let's make it run as smoothly as we can and as safe as possible for riders and the community.  There are clearly some very narrow minded idiots where I live.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Jethro on 27 September, 2017, 01:45:41 pm
I had a wonderful day out by participating in this event and while I anticipated some angry 'locals' it never actually materialised and instead all I can remember was seeing lots of very happy people supporting and cheering from the roadsides.

Most of the pubs I passed were probably doing a good trade while the children waited outside wanting 'high-fives' and without the pollution from the traffic, and clean air for once.

Having ridden the Ride London 100 earlier this year, the 15,000 was about half of the London event, however I believe that about 70% of the London event is made up with charity riders and as a result there were a lot more supporters so perhaps Velo birmingham might like to invite more charities to become involved next year.

I am already waiting for the announcement of next year's date for Velo Birmingham and will most likely enter again.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: giropaul on 27 September, 2017, 09:36:46 pm
The PR was very " professionally " handled. The BBC and others reported £000s raised for charity, but the reality was that rider's were encouraged to raise their own sponsorship, or buy a charity place off the charity that had bought places from the organiser. The organisers seemed to me to get the good PR from the charity aspect whilst being entirely commercial.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 27 September, 2017, 10:07:58 pm
I believe the reports have said the riders raised the money for charity rather than the organisers.  They were always keen to use phrases such as 'partners' and if folk did not realise they are a commercial company then what planet do they live on? I think CSM have got all the flak when the councils who agreed to it should be getting more flak than they have.  Summed-up by the local rag reporting folk travelling from Ipswich to South Staffs for a 'stunt driving course' at local airport could not access airport due to road closures and said CSM did not communicate sufficiently along with airport. Except airport 100% to blame as they had known for over 2 months and I even attended a meeting where both CSM and airport manager present when everyone knew there would be no access to airport.  So I think we have to be careful about reporting, interpretation of events and realise that for some folk the mantra "never let the facts get in the way of a good story" will always hold true.

This is what they do:

https://www.csm.com/our-work (https://www.csm.com/our-work)

And remember this:

https://www.csm.com/our-work/bringing-the-uk’s-showpiece-event-to-life (https://www.csm.com/our-work/bringing-the-uk’s-showpiece-event-to-life)

While CSM Active concentrate on activity events, they are still part of the CSM empire who are not a charity, they are a business that provide opportunities for others.

https://www.csm.com/news-views/csm-launches-new-active-lifestyle-business (https://www.csm.com/news-views/csm-launches-new-active-lifestyle-business)
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 23 November, 2017, 03:38:20 pm
Velomidlands is indeed for rebranding purposes and an attempt to mitigate the "if it's associated with Brum then stay in Brum!"  However, Worcestershire may not like Midlands tag and I know Staffordshire prefers not to have that tag as they fear becoming part of a 'Greater West Midlands' and tend not to use Midlands on anything.  My suggestion was Velo Central which avoids any triabilism in terms of areas as it is relatively vague.

I also suggested going north of Brum, or east or south east, to avoid a repeat of this year where some fairly major arterial routes were closed and communities were isolated along with many folk wishing to get from A to B.  Going north would allow major arterial routes to be passed via bridges which was not available on the route this year as such facilities were absent.

I know Staffordshire County Council support a repeat but South Staffordshire District Council, which is the territory the ride passed through, are against a repeat.  The MP for the area, Gavin Williamson (SoS Defence) is against a repeat of the route.  Many in South Staffs were hoping Worcestershire would vote against it to force it to go elsewhere, which might be happening.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 30 November, 2017, 06:48:02 pm
Sources inform me that 16 September is preferred date for 2018.

I would have thought having it at the same time as Cycle Show made sense.  Appears not if the 16th is really the chosen date.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 17 January, 2018, 10:12:54 am
A decision  on Velo Midland will be made by Worcestershire County Council's Cabinet on 8th February on whether to support the application for Traffic Regulation Orders.  If they decline, the event could still go ahead theoretically but without the road closure though I would imagine that as unlikely. 
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 17 January, 2018, 10:28:48 am
I don't think the event will go ahead without road closures as that was a key requirement last year for insurance purposes.

I believe they are also considering/planning a route north of Birmingham that could also use roads in Staffordshire as they remain keen for the event to visit it again, although last year it only visited the southerly parts of South Staffs that are within Staffordshire so far as Highways are concerned.

I know that Staffordshire County Council is on 'tenterhooks' and waiting for decision by WCC.  I don't think the Velo organisers will be as concerned as they are planning alternative routes that might even improve the event.  That said, the reception they received in Bewdley and other parts of the route, including the village where I live in South staffs, was very good, but not sure whether locals in my village want it back and no doubt a route change would be welcomed by many.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 31 January, 2018, 11:32:38 am
With just a week to go until the WCC Cabinet meeting, VeloBirmingham/Midland have announced that the next event will not be held until Spring 2019.  The only remaining local authority listed on their partners webpage is Birmingham City Council, with Sandwell, Dudley, Staffordshire and Worcestershire authorities no longer being listed.

The idea of a spring 2019 event is daft as most novice cyclists are not going to brave the winter elements for training.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: essexian on 31 January, 2018, 01:01:31 pm
Blimey, did they try to spin this in the email they sent me: longer amount of day light and better roads. Frankly, that's rubbish. If they were truthful, then they would have said they were having issues in confirming a route so were giving themselves a little more time to get things agreed.

The fact that Birmingham are the only council listed is also interesting. It seems to me to imply that the route will stay within the bounds of the City and if so.... and not being rude here to Birmingham, can they find a route worth doing after all, I can't really think of any hills worth doing etc.

No, to me I really doubt they will be back which is a shame as a fully closed road ride in the Midlands should be most excellent.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: essexian on 09 February, 2018, 08:30:24 am
Looks like Birmingham has moved a bit.....

https://www.velosouth.com/


Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 09 February, 2018, 12:55:04 pm
More importantly, what happened last night at the Worcester County Council meeting where it was due to be discussed?
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Veloman on 09 February, 2018, 01:05:48 pm
More importantly, what happened last night at the Worcester County Council meeting where it was due to be discussed?

Ah, taken off the agenda as no need to discuss it because it is not happening. Crafty way of ducking decision and leaving it to hopefully go away and not resurface if new route avoids that area.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: TigaSefi on 09 February, 2018, 06:28:04 pm
Looks like Birmingham has moved a bit.....

https://www.velosouth.com/

Nothing exciting about that at all! it's not UCI sanctioned so you can't use it to qualify for the worlds. There are audaxes that covers the same area for far less £££ and a much better route to boot!

Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Rupert on 04 October, 2018, 09:30:05 am
Entries now open for this again for 2019.  Anyone else entering?
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 01 February, 2019, 12:01:24 pm
They've announced a 42-miler:

https://www.velobirmingham.com/42-mile-route/

Sounds like a good idea, but they're still banning recumbents, tricycles, etc, so fuck that.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: JonBuoy on 01 February, 2019, 12:18:55 pm
Quote
Please note this is a point-to-point ride and participants are responsible for arranging their own way home after they’ve finished in Coventry.
:-\
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: grams on 01 February, 2019, 02:22:36 pm
£50 (after fees) to ride from Birmingham to Coventry, plus you have to turn up the afternoon before to register if you don't want to pay another £5 to get your pack posted.

Fuck that.

Quote
There are regular direct trains from Coventry to Birmingham New Street – please check with the train providers regarding their bike policy.

I'm guessing no one from the event will have spoken to the train companies about this, and they'll respond by banning bikes completely for the day?
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 01 February, 2019, 02:27:08 pm
Quote
There are regular direct trains from Coventry to Birmingham New Street – please check with the train providers regarding their bike policy.

I'm guessing no one from the event will have spoken to the train companies about this, and they'll respond by banning bikes completely for the day?

I expect Virgin will continue as normal - their strict reservations-only policy means this sort of thing isn't a problem for them.

London Midland London Northwestern Railway are traditionally quite laid-back about fitting bikes in wherever they'll go, and standing in a vestibule form Coventry to Brum shouldn't be too challenging for most riders.  They've certainly allowed large numbers of bikes on for the respective SkyRides (or whatever they're called these days).

But given the demographic who are inclined to pay £50 to enter a sportive, I expect a lot of people will be riding back, or have an accomplice with a car.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: whosatthewheel on 01 February, 2019, 04:00:41 pm
These events always struggle to turn a profit and it might well be that the extra 3,000 for the short distance represent the profit margin...

I am torn between wanting to volunteer at the event, but being profoundly against these for-profit rides...

... maybe I'll just spread tacks on the roads like everybody else...  ;D
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Deano on 01 February, 2019, 04:07:22 pm
These events always struggle to turn a profit and it might well be that the extra 3,000 for the short distance represent the profit margin...

I am torn between wanting to volunteer at the event, but being profoundly against these for-profit rides...

... maybe I'll just spread tacks on the roads like everybody else...  ;D

That would be mean - hand out flyers for your Audax instead!
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Phil W on 01 February, 2019, 04:15:10 pm
£50 (after fees) to ride from Birmingham to Coventry, plus you have to turn up the afternoon before to register if you don't want to pay another £5 to get your pack posted.

Fuck that.

Quote
There are regular direct trains from Coventry to Birmingham New Street – please check with the train providers regarding their bike policy.

I'm guessing no one from the event will have spoken to the train companies about this, and they'll respond by banning bikes completely for the day?

X,000 extra bikes on the trains. Yep that will work. No doubt locals will complain about the car gridlock of which x,000 of the cars will be those of riders
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: essexian on 01 February, 2019, 05:36:12 pm
I suppose if I was to do the shorter ride I would be tempted to ride the additional 10 miles or so to Nuneaton and get a train from there.

I enjoyed Ride London last year....apart from the rain and the visits so...... :-\
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: whosatthewheel on 01 February, 2019, 05:50:33 pm

That would be mean - hand out flyers for your Audax instead!

Waste of time, it's sold out since late October...  :P
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: JohnL on 01 February, 2019, 06:03:33 pm
Why would anyone do these rides when there is an awesome series of audaxes running out of Shenstone that day???

And Whosatthewheel... volunteer to help a company make a profit? A company that bans recumbents, trikes or in other words any machine that might help disabled riders for ‘health and safety reasons’? No, no, no!!!

I’m not a fan in case you hadn’t noticed!
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 01 February, 2019, 06:29:45 pm
Why would anyone do these rides when there is an awesome series of audaxes running out of Shenstone that day???

No trains to Shenstone until after they've started...
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: JohnL on 01 February, 2019, 07:08:51 pm
Why would anyone do these rides when there is an awesome series of audaxes running out of Shenstone that day???

No trains to Shenstone until after they've started...

You can use that 50 quid to get a taxi!!!
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: JonBuoy on 01 February, 2019, 07:21:38 pm
Why would anyone do these rides when there is an awesome series of audaxes running out of Shenstone that day???

No trains to Shenstone until after they've started...

You can use that 50 quid to get a taxi!!!

Good point.

Or cycle there?  It is 20k from New Street.  Not sure what the roads are like but I'm guessing that earlyish on a Sunday morning is as good as it gets.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 01 February, 2019, 07:28:48 pm
Yeah, I've done that before.  Crossing the centre of Birmingham is rarely fun, but Sunday morning's certainly the best time to do it.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: whosatthewheel on 02 February, 2019, 07:03:25 am

And Whosatthewheel... volunteer to help a company make a profit? A company that bans recumbents, trikes or in other words any machine that might help disabled riders for ‘health and safety reasons’? No, no, no!!!

I’m not a fan in case you hadn’t noticed!

Agree, although an event pushing 20K riders on the roads is more likely to have enough momentum to help improve cycling infrastructure in Birmingham. In this respect, Audax is invisible.

That said, I can't be bothered to help them... but I will help Roy instead, just in the June brevets from Lichfield rather than the May ones from Shenstone
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 13 February, 2019, 12:44:14 pm
Strangely, they have opened up entries to a shorter event which terminates in Coventry.   Riders will be faced with either cycling back along congested urban roads to Birmingham City Centre or attempting to squeeze their bikes onto trains with limited cycle capacity. 

This sudden decision to release additional places has all the hallmarks of CSM attempting to yield further incoming for a potentially loss making venture.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Si on 05 March, 2019, 03:14:06 pm

Quote
Agree, although an event pushing 20K riders on the roads is more likely to have enough momentum to help improve cycling infrastructure in Birmingham.

I think that the HSBC BC Let's Ride city ride (or whatever it's called) is much better for this as it gets real people(TM) and lots of kids out on bikes in the city centre: several BCC Councillors, BC brass and HSBC peeps there last year.   I believe that last year's had over 10,000 there - mostly people from Birmingham itself rather than 1000s of people driving miles to get a high speed, fleeting glance at the city.

Having said that I appear to have entered the Velo, although only because I've been given a free VIP ticket!  the Velo isn't really my thing but I think that before criticising it too much I ought to at least give it a go.  Disappointed that it's the same day as Shenstone as I would have liked to use the new won Velo fitness to do Shenstone again.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Nightmare-1 on 16 April, 2019, 06:04:58 pm
As the OP stated there's the "right way to organise" and then there's this way.
I entered "Etape Loch Ness" after confirming that it was OK to be riding a recumbent trike, when they released the "Ride Rules" via email, after the cut-off date for refund or exchange/transfer of rider.
Their policy is now NO recumbent bicycles/fixed gear...etc.
No mention of Trikes. :demon:
Even down to the type of handlebars you're allowed NO "unconventional" handlebars (whatever that means?) ???

Basically UCI compliant!
Even though it's NOT a race you MUST maintain a minimum speed of 13mph!!!
I'd like to see anyone apart from a Tour de France professional rider maintain that speed up that hill (start at around 50m to 393m in 4.8miles)
If you're unable to do this you WILL be stopped and removed from the event!!!

I have suggested to Macmillan cancer that they switch support to "Pedal for Scotland" instead as they WELCOME recumbents and only ADVISE the wearing of helmets.

Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Flite on 04 July, 2019, 08:19:21 pm
Velo North on 1 Sept is cancelled

Hooray!!!

Was planned to cause massive disruption in the Durham Dales and consequent antagonism towards cyclists in general

Smaller events without closed roads are welcome.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Flite on 05 July, 2019, 09:50:00 pm
 Velo29North
Another sportive has been hurriedly organised by Velo 29 to replace the cancelled Velo North on 1 Sept.
Not closed roads, but a lot less expensive!
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 09 January, 2020, 10:05:15 am
Velo Birmingham looks as though it may continue following divestment by CSM Sport and Entertainment to a new principal shareholder.   This follows a succession of heavy financial losses that exceeded a staggering one million pounds in 2017.  Whilst the losses have since reduced to £885k for 2018 (we will not yet know what they are for 2019), we can assume that they have decided it that is no longer a business model that is sustainable.  The renamed group, Active Sport and Entertainment, clearly see that a future does exist.  They have new staff and a new headquarters and presumably, a new business model with possible new backers.

CSM’s involvement was beleaguered from beginning to end.  The first Velo Birmingham was fraught with problems through lack of due process with the relevant local authorities;  Velo South in 2018 was cancelled due atrocious weather conditions; Velo North was cancelled due to lack of interest, and; Velo Birmingham 2019 was troubled by external factors beyond CSM’s immediate control such irresponsible drivers, a dead horse and a fatality.

Meanwhile the new organisers have been approaching venues, including the university, for a start and finish location for Velo Birmingham 2020.  Whether the new arrangements place these type of events on a more sustainable footing, only time will tell. 
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Flite on 15 January, 2020, 08:19:25 pm
Whatever they re-name themselves, I hope to goodness they stay away from the North Pennines.  Closed roads are the last thing we need.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 30 January, 2020, 04:36:44 pm
Just spotted this change to the FAQ:

Quote
What type of bikes are not allowed?
The following are forbidden at Vélo Birmingham & Midlands for health and safety reasons: bikes with disc wheels, recumbent bicycles with full fairing or tricycle configuration, electronic bikes not compliant with current UK/EU legal requirements for ‘electrically assisted pedal cycles’ (EAPCs), unicycles, elliptical cycles, penny farthings, tricycles, quad cycles, BMX bikes, fixed gear bikes / singlespeeds / fixies (allowed with two independent brakes and a freehub) and handbikes / cycles. Any unconventional handlebars including triathlon bars, aero bars, clip-ons, prayer bars, Spinaci bars and cow bars, handlebar extensions bars without Bar end plugs fitted; and any other items which the Organiser considers may be a danger to the safety of other participants.

Can I ride my e-bike at Vélo Birmingham & Midlands?
For Vélo Birmingham & Midlands, e-bikes will be permitted on all distances. Only those cycles that comply with current UK/EU legal requirements for ‘electrically assisted pedal cycles’ (EAPCs) are permitted in the sportive. EAPCs still require the rider to pedal and the electric motor, with a maximum power of 250 watts, cannot provide assistance when travelling at more than 25 km/h (15.5mph). Participants using e-bikes must still meet the requirements for entering as per the Event T&Cs.

If you wish to participate in Vélo Birmingham & Midlands on an e-bike, you must inform us by emailing hello@velobirmingham.com (stating your full name) prior to purchasing your entry. These details are required so you can be placed in a suitable start wave for safety reasons.

Can I ride my recumbent bike at Vélo Birmingham & Midlands?
Recumbent Cycles (not full fairing or tricycle configuration) with a sufficient visible rear marker that is 2m in height will be permitted on all distances at Vélo Birmingham & Midlands. If you wish to participate on a recumbent, you must inform us by emailing hello@velobirmingham.com (stating your full name and image of recumbent) prior to purchasing your entry. These details are required so you can be placed in a suitable start wave for safety reasons.

So they're permitting part-faired or unfaired recumbent bicycles, as long as they've got a flag, but not - for some reason - tricycles or handcycles[1].

Sensible approach to electric assist.

Fixies are only permitted when fitted with brakes and a freehub  ???

And yes, magic hats still compulsory.


[1] Okay, handcyclists are going to be mostly excluded by the distance, anyway.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: bludger on 30 January, 2020, 04:42:55 pm
In my new experience 'inside' cycling basically a lot of the 'events people' have no involvement with cycling whatsoever.

We were recently asked if anyone from our organisation would like to be a marshal at a big walking event, 'if we bring our own bikes and helmets.' I responded that we would probably not have any volunteers forthcoming on the basis of them being told a helmet is 'mandatory' and that many of us don't own one. They came back to me saying that they assumed (!) it was mandatory anyway....
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Phil W on 30 January, 2020, 05:31:38 pm
So basically a safety recommendation for recumbents that is not evidence based. Quelle surprise.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 30 January, 2020, 06:13:02 pm
Part of me would like to ask them if they've done a risk assessment for the use of flags.  I'm not sure what problem they think they're solving, but I reckon they're introducing an eye hazard by requiring them...

The rest of me can't be arsed.  I'm not entering.  I'll be at the York Rally instead.

Disappointing that they aren't permitting tricycles, though, given their popularity with disabled cyclists.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: giropaul on 20 March, 2020, 03:07:02 pm
Cancelled! No refunds or transfers.
Of no personal interest as I don’t do this sort of event, but much wailing and gnashing from people I know who do.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 20 March, 2020, 03:14:23 pm
I think theyre linked to velo Essex which I was considering due to the idea of closed roads but being tight and having other priorities this year didnt
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: giropaul on 20 March, 2020, 03:53:14 pm
I think theyre linked to velo Essex which I was considering due to the idea of closed roads but being tight and having other priorities this year didnt

They seem to be. They are now saying that Essex is closed for entries under the present circumstances, but if it does open up then Birmingham entrants can transfer.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: The_Dwarf on 07 December, 2020, 02:26:03 pm
I booked my spot in this years Birmingham Velo - and when the sh!t happened emailed them regarding either...
- Full refund
- Partial refund
- Free entry on next event (Whenever that may be)

Basically got told...
Sorry, we have outlays we have had to pay for this year so sorry, no refunds or nothing

I was looking forward to it, although it probably would of killed me, but after taking about £80
(I bought insurance for if I COULDN'T do it such as injury illness - which apparently doesn't cover me if the organisers can't run it, granted pandemic happened)
and not even offering a place on the next Birmingham Velo (Like other events / festivals I believe were doing)
I don't think I'd be entering anytime soon - when ever it happens again.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Rupert on 07 December, 2020, 03:59:34 pm
I entered it in 2019 but then went down with a very bad cold a few days before so was a non-starter.

Entered again for this year (2020) and the same for everyone else I suppose, so lost out twice!

With so many disappointed entrants not getting any sort of a refund, I very much doubt anyone would want to enter should the event re-surface next year so I also doubt that it will return.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Lightning Phil on 07 December, 2020, 06:39:34 pm
I know more than one rider who raised a dispute through their bank / credit card for non delivery of promised “service” and got full refunds.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 07 December, 2020, 06:41:03 pm
With so many disappointed entrants not getting any sort of a refund, I very much doubt anyone would want to enter should the event re-surface next year so I also doubt that it will return.

I dunno, there seem to be plenty of people who've newly taken up cycling in 2020 who likely wouldn't consider that.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: markcjagar on 07 December, 2020, 07:35:39 pm
I booked my spot in this years Birmingham Velo - and when the sh!t happened emailed them regarding either...
- Full refund
- Partial refund
- Free entry on next event (Whenever that may be)

Basically got told...
Sorry, we have outlays we have had to pay for this year so sorry, no refunds or nothing

I was looking forward to it, although it probably would of killed me, but after taking about £80
(I bought insurance for if I COULDN'T do it such as injury illness - which apparently doesn't cover me if the organisers can't run it, granted pandemic happened)
and not even offering a place on the next Birmingham Velo (Like other events / festivals I believe were doing)
I don't think I'd be entering anytime soon - when ever it happens again.

Contact your credit card company/bank and get a refund that way
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: fd3 on 08 December, 2020, 06:04:29 pm
Bemused at the fixie ruling - I can see they would want no brakeless track bikes, but I would have assumed my commuter would be kosher.
I have neither the time nor the money nor the inclination for this sort of thing anyhow.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: eckagain on 08 December, 2020, 06:20:59 pm
Should they not be expected to itemise exactly how much they've spent on "outlays" and how much they've received in entry fees?
Any surplus gets returned, pro rata, to entrants, no? 
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: grams on 08 December, 2020, 06:31:30 pm
Vélo Birmingham 2017 - Went ahead.
Vélo Birmingham 2018 - Announced and then postponed.
Vélo South 2018 - Protests expected, but cancelled due to storm. Full refunds offered.
Vélo Birmingham 2019 - Went ahead.
Vélo North 2019 - Cancelled due to poor ticket sales.
Vélo Birmingham 2020 - Cancelled, no refunds.
Vélo Essex 2020 - Cancelled, 45% refunds.

Have I missed any?
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: MattH on 09 December, 2020, 11:03:11 am
Not a great record.
I was supposed to have been on Velo South, to be honest I was relieved when it was cancelled as I was expecting a lot of trouble (I ride support moto).
I did Birmingham in 2019. I wasn't involved in the fatality or serious injuries, but I was the moto who escorted the vet to the horses through the cyclists (not a police biker as reported on some sites) and was the guy on the ground doing my best to help out the owners, later bringing in the knacker's wagon, again through the cyclists. That was a stressful day.

I have mixed feelings about these events. There was a lot of behind the scenes organisation. There were massive numbers of marshals on the ground. All the motos were very experienced guys - at a level where they are working on the big pro races, not "just" the small local ones. But there will always be disruption to locals (a large part of our work was to minimise that; get people safely through when they needed to cross the closures, including pre-booked and ad-hoc responses etc.). With the large number of participants there always will be incidents - which is one of the reasons we are there, to try to reduce their likelihood and deal with them efficiently should they happen. Part of the issue is also that towards the end there is such a large spread of times that the local impact is increased, so there is more frustration than from those at the start where the closures are gone by 10am rather than being all day.

Is it worth it? Is it more or less worthy than closing a road for a pro road race? I don't know. If it goes on again I'll probably be there, to help minimise impact. But I probably wouldn't enter it (partly because mass events like this generally don't appeal to me anyway).
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: robgul on 09 December, 2020, 02:20:52 pm
Bemused at the fixie ruling - I can see they would want no brakeless track bikes, but I would have assumed my commuter would be kosher.
I have neither the time nor the money nor the inclination for this sort of thing anyhow.

It's not unusual to bar fixies in mass events - presumably as the control/riding etc is different (OK, I don't want an argument on that)

When I was running the MacRide Events at SuA with anything up to 1,250 riders in a single event our insurer stipulated no fixies, no spinetti bars, no tri-bars, no cowhorn bars - all for safety reasons (their words) - we did get the odd rider on fixed  ;)
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Philip Whiteman on 09 December, 2020, 03:40:20 pm
-The Kidderminster Killer  - Refunds and commutation of fees
-Autumn Rivers - Refunds and commutations of fees
-Montgomery Madness  - went ahead
-Begwyns, Books and Stones - Refunds or commutation to postponed event
-Salt and Cotswolds - went ahead

Audaxes from Birmingham based Beacon RCC.  We saw it coming with Velo Birmingham.

No expensive fees, no headline sponsors, no goodie bags, no numbers, no gold standard times, no broom wagons and no pretending at the finish to have looked into the jaws of hell and survived. No con-artists, no premium entries and no empty promises.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: giropaul on 09 December, 2020, 05:57:38 pm
It’s worth remembering that the Commonwealth Games are on, using various courses for running, cycling etc across the area.
Residents may feel they have had quite enough with these closures.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: Kim on 09 December, 2020, 06:39:36 pm
It’s worth remembering that the Commonwealth Games are on, using various courses for running, cycling etc across the area.
Residents may feel they have had quite enough with these closures.

AIUI the whole point in VeloBirmingham was to demonstrate that the city could manage a closed-roads cycling event as part of their Commonwealth Games bid.
Title: Re: VeloBirmingham?
Post by: The_Dwarf on 10 December, 2020, 09:48:01 am
Contact your credit card company/bank and get a refund that way

I shall give them a call tomorrow.

Even though it got cancelled back in March for an event due in June - surely there is no time-limit for not getting what you were intending to purchase - especially as I booked my ticket in November 2019 - well before Covid-19 was [officially] heard of.