Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: joy of essex on 05 February, 2019, 10:26:00 pm

Title: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 05 February, 2019, 10:26:00 pm
About  to  start the build of a Brother Kepler.

Mainly for Audax and bit of off-road.

It will have bar end  shifters

In  the parts box we have
1)  Sora  Triple groupset
2)  Stronglight impact double(50/34)  but of course, I can change that.

11-32 /34 on the back.

Any views?  It will occasionally be ridden into and out of Ventnor on the Isle of Wight. If you've ridden in or out of that town then you will understand it's a particular challenge.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: grams on 05 February, 2019, 11:10:48 pm
The "cool" kids all switched to 1x years ago.

Though I heard the really cool kids ride triples.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 05 February, 2019, 11:32:21 pm
I heard the totally chilled kids were fixed. And those who are so frozen they're smoking are using hub gears.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: rogerzilla on 06 February, 2019, 06:35:05 am
I heard the totally chilled kids were fixed. And those who are so frozen they're smoking are using hub gears.
Guilty!
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 06 February, 2019, 06:46:21 am
It's all about the shaft drive, baby!
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Exit Stage Left on 06 February, 2019, 07:01:07 am
I'd try to avoid the 11, and the 12.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 06 February, 2019, 08:54:26 am
It's all about the shaft drive, baby!
Richard Roundtree or Samuel L. Jackson?
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 06 February, 2019, 09:00:34 am
I should have added aesthetics as a point to be considered in the choice.

The frame is the purple / white 80s one, It's an acquired taste.

So either all silver- double with silver NTS  bar and pillar.

Or Triple- all  black  with black Deda stem, bar and pillar.

Mind you , still can't get round to  taking the  parts off one and building the   frame.

The silver might win because all the parts are currently not on a bike...

Decisions, decisions...
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 06 February, 2019, 09:02:47 am
Aesthetically, I'd go for silver with a purple and white frame. That's assuming it's a shiny polished metal silver, not a sheeny grey that is called silver nowadays. But that's just my aesthetics, yours might vary be more advanced.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Ian H on 06 February, 2019, 10:52:04 am
Form follows function. 

I have the fixed and the triple (but on different bikes).  The triple is merely because I like close ratios, hate big jumps between gears.

I don't think I count as 'cool'.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: andyoxon on 06 February, 2019, 11:14:02 am
Triple.  What's not to like?   ;)   Love my 10spd 50-39-24 for the ratios, and the enjoyment assist (for me) on steeper hills, trickier /muddy off-road.  It is however Shimano 'silver' on a 531 frame, but I've stopped being overly bothered with aesthetics.     
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Phil W on 06 February, 2019, 11:29:48 am
Since it is bar end shifters and I presume the front is friction then you should be able to get it to work with both double or triple cranksets.  So you could go with what you have in the spares box for now and change to a triple up front later if you fancy it.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Brucey on 06 February, 2019, 12:41:11 pm
Sora gives you what, 30/34 bottom gear vs 34/34 with a double?  Only you can say if you need that gear on that hill.

cheers
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: andyoxon on 06 February, 2019, 04:29:08 pm
Though you're not limited to a 30t necessarily.  I replaced my 30t with a 26t on one bike and 24t on other.  The latter does have a long rear mech.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 06 February, 2019, 04:54:59 pm
It's all about the shaft drive, baby!
Richard Roundtree or Samuel L. Jackson?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEaRCAcfOEQ
or if you prefer
https://youtu.be/NlMT-oEIQuo
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: andrew_s on 06 February, 2019, 05:12:52 pm
The trouble with compact double is that the only route to lower gears, should you later decide you want them, is a bigger cassette, and if you start on 11-34 there's not a vast scope.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: mzjo on 06 February, 2019, 08:11:47 pm
Go quad up front with however few you can get away with at the back! What the hell, it's all about the anaesthetics!

(To be really cool the four rings need 1t spacings; this means that changing will be impossible but it's only for the look).
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 08 February, 2019, 08:22:44 am
Mount your quad chainrings with 1t spacing inside out; so the smallest is on the outside and the largest on the inside, all the better to display their shiny surfaces. Have each ring anodised a different colour.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Ian H on 08 February, 2019, 10:58:44 am
I've only ever seen quads on French-style long-chain tandems.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 08 February, 2019, 11:00:53 am
Dawes did a touring bike with a quad for a year about three decades ago. I've seen a few old MTBs of similar vintage retrofitted with quad adaptors. A wide range triple always seemed a better option to me.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Phil W on 08 February, 2019, 11:19:45 am
The "cool" kids all switched to 1x years ago.


You mean they went back to the 70's?
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Kim on 08 February, 2019, 12:24:43 pm
The "cool" kids all switched to 1x years ago.


You mean they went back to the 70's?

*points at beards*

*points at trousers*

*points at floppy hair*
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: mzjo on 08 February, 2019, 07:41:42 pm
I've only ever seen quads on French-style long-chain tandems.

The only one I've seen with quad rings was a fellow participant at my first Initiateur course just over 20 years ago. It was on a normal solo and used Stronlight 88 (I think that was the model with all the rings on the same spider) triple length chainring bolts with some one-off machined spacers. It looked well cool 'cos you had to look twice to count the rings. It worked well as well. I won't go into the supposed advantages (I can't remember them!)
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: mzjo on 08 February, 2019, 07:42:47 pm
The "cool" kids all switched to 1x years ago.


You mean they went back to the 70's?

No; the 30's ;D
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: IanDG on 08 February, 2019, 08:13:36 pm
f*** cool - be you.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 09 February, 2019, 08:28:12 am
Back in the 70s, a double was  " cool"  and Triples an exotic rumour.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 09 February, 2019, 08:40:09 am
Rode the current bike to  work  yesterday. It's  got a Deore triple 48,38,28  on the front, which was the standard kit on a  tourer 10 years ago , it works well .  But do I use the 28? Well, getting out  of Ventnor with panniers but not otherwise. I do  find i stay in the 38 ring but that seems   to be out of  habit.....

See  Ventnor...https://goo.gl/images/D7mpmb

So,  the  drift is towards the double. in terms of  kit that would take me back to the early 80s.  A touring bikes gears were a 50/32 double and a 5 speed block with a 32 at the back, and then came MTBs and it all changed...

Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Ian H on 09 February, 2019, 09:51:32 am
That's not my recollection of 80s gearing.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 09 February, 2019, 12:52:38 pm
Rode the current bike to  work  yesterday. It's  got a Deore triple 48,38,28  on the front, which was the standard kit on a  tourer 10 years ago , it works well .  But do I use the 28? Well, getting out  of Ventnor with panniers but not otherwise. I do  find i stay in the 38 ring but that seems   to be out of  habit.....

See  Ventnor...https://goo.gl/images/D7mpmb

So,  the  drift is towards the double. in terms of  kit that would take me back to the early 80s.  A touring bikes gears were a 50/32 double and a 5 speed block with a 32 at the back, and then came MTBs and it all changed...

Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 09 February, 2019, 12:54:48 pm
That's not my recollection of 80s gearing.

Well, 1980-83..

Then it was 48 -36

And by 89 we had triples....
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Phil W on 09 February, 2019, 01:18:46 pm
Or by 2003 in my case (getting a triple)
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Paul H on 09 February, 2019, 03:19:21 pm
Rode the current bike to  work  yesterday. It's  got a Deore triple 48,38,28  on the front, which was the standard kit on a  tourer 10 years ago , it works well .  But do I use the 28? Well, getting out  of Ventnor with panniers but not otherwise. I do  find i stay in the 38 ring but that seems   to be out of  habit.....
If I fond myself with a 34T sprocket I wasn't using, I'd keep the triple and look for a different cassette.  Currently running 48/38/28 with a 13-28 cassette (9spd) and it suites that bikes usage fine - YMMV.
Quote
  A touring bikes gears were a 50/32 double and a 5 speed block with a 32 at the back, and then came MTBs and it all changed...
When I look at CTC photos from that time, there seems to be a lot more walking up hills than I see nowadays, nothing wrong with that of course, unless you're trying to look cool.
 
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Brucey on 09 February, 2019, 05:07:38 pm
FWIW in mass-produced bikes IIRC the dawes super galaxy has a triple chainset in the early 1980s.

I'd be tempted to keep the triple simply because you have more options.  If you look at the gears you would be using most of the time with a double, often you would  find yourself running cross-chained most of the time.  You may not notice this, but it is less efficient; you wouldn't ride around with the brakes rubbing, would you?

cheers
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: mzjo on 09 February, 2019, 05:13:32 pm
Rode the current bike to  work  yesterday. It's  got a Deore triple 48,38,28  on the front, which was the standard kit on a  tourer 10 years ago , it works well .  But do I use the 28? Well, getting out  of Ventnor with panniers but not otherwise. I do  find i stay in the 38 ring but that seems   to be out of  habit.....
If I fond myself with a 34T sprocket I wasn't using, I'd keep the triple and look for a different cassette.  Currently running 48/38/28 with a 13-28 cassette (9spd) and it suites that bikes usage fine - YMMV.
Quote
  A touring bikes gears were a 50/32 double and a 5 speed block with a 32 at the back, and then came MTBs and it all changed...
When I look at CTC photos from that time, there seems to be a lot more walking up hills than I see nowadays, nothing wrong with that of course, unless you're trying to look cool.

I can remember when a 46t ring with 5sp 14-24 at the back was your lot. My first double had 46/49 with 14-24. My sis had 46/49 with a 14-28 5sp block but that was seriously touring gearing. A mate ran a single ring (probably 46 or 48) with a 4sp SA hub on which the 1st gear didn't work (he said it was still lower than the 1st on the close -probably medium - ratio SA 3sp that was on his other bike). We used to do YHA week-ends on this kit. Triple and a 32 sprocket - in your dreams maybe!

I can't remember Dawes Galaxy models with triples, they had doubles and much the same set-up as the Dawes Double Five, with a better frame - but that was in the 70's
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Brucey on 09 February, 2019, 05:42:27 pm
sorry meant to say 'super galaxy' (and have amended above post) eg

(https://paulsbikeride.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/20110705-005353.jpg)

dunno exactly which year this is but the super gal didn't exist before about 1977 (?) and in ~1981 they started using a simpler oval head badge instead of the round one (that was used for most of the 1970s) as above.  So this is between 1977 and 1980 most likely.  It wasn't every year that a triple was specced either; I have seen super gals from this period that were equipped with a TA double and indeed they reverted to a (much cheaper) double in the oval head badge days.

cheers
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 09 February, 2019, 06:56:08 pm
oh I remember them! 

All of a sudden I am 22  planning a trip to Brittany on a Claude Butler Majestique.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: LateStarter on 10 February, 2019, 03:16:30 am
Because I ruined my knees with decades of cross country running before I discovered bicycles I did my early audax years on my tourers with triples to minimise knee strain but when I thought I was good enough for an proper "audax" bike I was tempted by and drank from the "compact doubles have the range of triples" cup.

Only partly true, I give up a lower gear or two but what I really hated was that the gear ratios I used constantly were split across the rings (10 speed 46/30 with 11-36 cassette). So after a not too happy year or so I converted by audax bike to a 9 speed triple just like the tourers and most recently discovered I could make it a 10 speed triple by combining some old bits from the double days (10 speed RH ultegra shifter, XT cassette & chain) with the existing (24-36-48 Sugino cranks, XT RD, Sora triple FD, LH x3 Sora shifter).

Works perfectly, the shifters look enough alike to not be offensive at least from where I am sitting, everything shifts well, even better and I can stay most of most rides in the middle ring running up and down the cassette (11-36,) and having 3 good lower ratios on the small ring and 3 higher on the big ring, very happy and very cool.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Danu on 10 February, 2019, 07:02:17 am
Most useful triple setup I've used was my  Half step plus granny ring combo
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Pedal Castro on 10 February, 2019, 08:03:04 am
A dubbel for me please.

Oh, we're talking gears not beers...

Still the standard double, which is 53/39 nowadays. My first new bike since returning to cycling was a tourer in 2010 which was a triple. Then my first carbon bike (Merckx 69) was a compact double (50/34) in 2015 for PBP, the next three were all 53/39.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 10 February, 2019, 08:37:14 am
My gearing on my audax bikes has varied quite a bit.
Early on I used 54-42 x 13-26 7sp, just my 700C racing bike with a climbing freewheel. I rode fixed 70"-74" for 3 x SR.
PBP99 was 50-38 x 13-24 7sp on 700C.
PBP03 was a Sachs Duomatic hub on 16" wheels, about 71" & 53".
PBP07 & 11 were 58-48-34 x 11-24 10sp on 20" wheels. The granny rings weren't needed at PBP but were sometimes essential in other brevets.
PBP15 was 46-36-26 x 11-28 8sp on 700C.

Everything works in reality. Just some arrangements are a little better than others for a particular rider in a particular time and place.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: rr on 10 February, 2019, 08:40:39 am
FWIW in mass-produced bikes IIRC the dawes super galaxy has a triple chainset in the early 1980s.

I'd be tempted to keep the triple simply because you have more options.  If you look at the gears you would be using most of the time with a double, often you would  find yourself running cross-chained most of the time.  You may not notice this, but it is less efficient; you wouldn't ride around with the brakes rubbing, would you?

cheers
Galaxies had triples in the 70s, I remember a boy in my class had one in 77/78.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Brucey on 10 February, 2019, 09:36:04 am
triple chainsets were a popular upgrade for touring bikes and commonly fitted on bespoke machines but they were not fitted on many production machines. If you saw one on a Dawes galaxy in about 1977/1978 I think it would have been an upgrade or a Super galaxy. The galaxy model at about that time was a much more workmanlike affair; this is the companion galaxy model to the Super galaxy upthread;

(https://paulsbikeride.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/20110705-005327.jpg)

And this was improved over previous versions; it has DB main tubes where the previous versions had PG main tubes. Forks and stays were pretty basic too; certainly not lightweight.  Ironically this may have made the frame a lot stiffer and the bikes better load luggers than more lightweight models.  You could easily improve the machine above for pennies; the sun tour gear levers are simple friction ones and whilst they work OK (tip: if you make absolutely sure there is no lash in the capping plate, otherwise they need retightening every ride) the only reason for fitting them is that they are slightly cheaper than the 'powershift' versions. Ditto the seat pin; another obvious sign of penny-pinching.


Considering what a widespread bike it has been there is surprisingly little documentation about the specifications of different years of dawes galaxies. Folk very often get the age hopelessly wrong. Right now there is a machine that dates from the early 1980s for sale elsewhere and the owner has described it as 'a 1960s model'. Here

http://coastkid.blogspot.com/2014/05/1974-dawes-galaxy-tourer-saved-from.html (http://coastkid.blogspot.com/2014/05/1974-dawes-galaxy-tourer-saved-from.html)

the '1974 machine' clearly dates from the early 1980s too; the head badge didn't come in like that until ~1981.

This is (I think) from 1977

(https://forum.cyclinguk.org/download/file.php?id=28011)

and has a TA double chainset on the super gal.  I think they went to 531 forks, lighter stays and brake levers with hoods and no suicide extensions for the next year(or maybe the year after) but kept the double chainset until after that.

VCC archive has 1975 cataloguehttp://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Dawes%20catalogue%201975%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf (http://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Dawes%20catalogue%201975%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf) with no super gal at all, and the standard galaxy is still wearing a steel double chainset with cotter pins.


1977 catalogue here http://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Dawes%20catalogue%201977%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf (http://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Dawes%20catalogue%201977%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf)
including Mirage and double blue models with mavic module E rims and michelin elan tyres; some of the earliest bikes with these 'modern' skinny HP rims/tyres fitted. However they were in 27" size not 700C!

1984 catalogue herehttp://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Dawes%20catalogue%201984%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf (http://www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk/ncl/pics/Dawes%20catalogue%201984%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf)
 in which the super galaxy has a double chainset, and for that year there is a (new) different top touring model, known as the 'classic' with a triple.

cheers
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: joy of essex on 10 February, 2019, 12:27:33 pm


Only partly true, I give up a lower gear or two but what I really hated was that the gear ratios I used constantly were split across the rings (10 speed 46/30 with 11-36 cassette). So after a not too happy year or so I converted by audax bike to a 9 speed triple just like the tourers and most recently discovered I could make it a 10 speed triple by combining some old bits from the double days (10 speed RH ultegra shifter, XT cassette & chain) with the existing (24-36-48 Sugino cranks, XT RD, Sora triple FD, LH x3 Sora shifter).

Works perfectly, the shifters look enough alike to not be offensive at least from where I am sitting, everything shifts well, even better and I can stay most of most rides in the middle ring running up and down the cassette (11-36,) and having 3 good lower ratios on the small ring and 3 higher on the big ring, very happy and very cool.

This is probably where we are heading.....
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Kim on 10 February, 2019, 02:30:35 pm
Most useful triple setup I've used was my  Half step plus granny ring combo

I've got one-and-a-half-step plus granny on my tourer.  Very wide gear range as suits a recumbent, and those intermediate ratios obtained by shifting front and back in opposite directions occasionally become useful for battling wind in the flatlands.
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Bobby on 14 February, 2019, 07:28:20 am
Why stop at 3 or 4?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=undefined&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjQmZux2LrgAhWLnxQKHYKQDbEQzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjanheine.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F04%2F01%2Fcompass-introduces-quintuple-cranks%2F&psig=AOvVaw1whmtMiV049piBNDyO3mvm&ust=1550215362405223 (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=undefined&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwjQmZux2LrgAhWLnxQKHYKQDbEQzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fjanheine.wordpress.com%2F2018%2F04%2F01%2Fcompass-introduces-quintuple-cranks%2F&psig=AOvVaw1whmtMiV049piBNDyO3mvm&ust=1550215362405223)

 :o
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 14 February, 2019, 08:39:49 am
 ;D
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: quixoticgeek on 14 February, 2019, 11:10:18 am

A gear thread... can anyone guess what I'm gonna say?

...

Currently using a 40/28 front, with 11-34 rear (10 speed), next bike will be 28/38 front, 11-40 11 speed rear...

J
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Blodwyn Pig on 16 February, 2019, 07:51:36 am
This year, Olive will be mostly wearing, a shiny Stronglight impact triple,( the previous model with 5 fingers of fun), and 48/36/26 , coupled to a retrolopolis 7 speed 13-28 block, and friction bar cons. ...sqweeee!!
Title: Re: Double or Triple; what are the cool kids using?
Post by: Morat on 25 February, 2019, 08:48:59 pm

A gear thread... can anyone guess what I'm gonna say?

...

Currently using a 40/28 front, with 11-34 rear (10 speed), next bike will be 28/38 front, 11-40 11 speed rear...

J

I'm with you - it's the low gears that matter!
(not that I'm claiming I'd actually be with you on the road, or anywhere near)