Author Topic: [LEL17] Help with Garmin  (Read 4085 times)

[LEL17] Help with Garmin
« on: 23 July, 2017, 09:34:30 pm »
Hello guys,

I'm quite new to Garmin (I've got Edge 1000 recently) and wanted to ask - how you are going to set the route? If I use the the official routes from one control to another, then I will have only data for each individual segment. I want that too, but at the same time I want to have the whole journey date (for example, average speed or distance) at any given time.

Any help?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #1 on: 23 July, 2017, 09:40:34 pm »
Why? The brevet card tells you when each control closes and what distance it is from the start and any watch/ clock tells you how far you are ahead of the closing time at that location. The only time you need more detailed info is between each control and the official routes will give you detail along individual sections.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #2 on: 23 July, 2017, 09:48:14 pm »
You could fit an old-fashioned bike computer alongside your Garmin which could then give you info about your total distance and overall average speed.

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #3 on: 23 July, 2017, 09:52:47 pm »
You could fit an old-fashioned bike computer alongside your Garmin which could then give you info about your total distance and overall average speed.

Although that will only give moving average. Unless you know of one that will give overall average??? If you do I'd love that as a reliable backup!

FYI an etrex will keep all the recorded data separate from the navigation. Dunno if the Edge is the same.

John

LMT

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #4 on: 23 July, 2017, 10:04:18 pm »
I'll have two units running, one being an Edge 520 and the other being an Etrex 20. The Etrex will be for navigation and the moving and overall average speed. The 520 will be used to monitor HR and power which will be on a stage by stage basis.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #5 on: 23 July, 2017, 11:15:46 pm »
On Garmin Edge devices, there are TWO tracks — the one you are following (Garmin calls this a "course"), and the one you are recording (your recorded "track").  They are SEPARATE.  You can change the navigational-track — the "course" — as many times as you like, this will NOT affect your recorded "track".

So, I have a Garmin 1000.  I will press Start in Loughton with track N1.  At St Ives I will select course N2 and carry on.  At Spalding I'll select N3 and follow that.  Etc., all the way to Edinburgh and back again.  I will follow 20 courses (17 if you're using the official GPX files), but I will record only one single track of the whole event, all 1400+km of it.

There is a trick you need to know for audax: the Other Button — the Lap button!  The button next to the start/stop button is the lap button.  Now, I KNOW we're not doing laps, but the beauty of the lap button is that it restarts certain fields while not affecting others.  Therefore, when I leave St Ives, I will press Lap and my "Lap Distance" field will return to zero — and so the distance in that field will accurately reflect those contained on the routesheet.  I measure my progress on the lap with the Lap Speed field — the average speed, but only for the current lap.  Next to that field I also have "Average Speed" and this is the overall average speed of my entire LEL workout, from the beginning, and includes all the stops (Edge does not give you a moving-average, only an overall-average).  And there are other Lap fields.  Remembering to press Lap is the hardest part, the rest is all in how you set up the fields on your display.

And setting up the fields is an art in itself — I have a pair of data screens that I have become comfortable with over the last four years, riding quite a few brevets: one contains all the fields I use all the time, the other contains fields I check every now and again, and I flick between the two as I need to.  If you're heading straight into a Long One without having sorted these out for yourself then expect to be fiddling with these fields as you're riding to find a set that help rather than hinder.

Now, JUST TO BE CLEAR, you have to be careful on Garmin 800/810/820 devices — these earlier models CANNOT record more than about 340km reliably and are almost guaranteed to crash.  Instead, with those devices, you must regularly stop your recorded track and save it and start a new track, every 300km or so.  This is a device limitation on certain individual units (like my 800).  That's okay — it is possible to stitch all 20 recorded tracks back together when you get near a computer, before uploading to Strava.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #6 on: 24 July, 2017, 06:27:06 am »
Wilky is absolutely correct. However I would never trust Garmin to record 1400km so I will stop the Garmin every 300km. You the. Have another maths problem to do whilst riding working out the overall average.

dim

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #7 on: 24 July, 2017, 09:47:34 am »
On Garmin Edge devices, there are TWO tracks — the one you are following (Garmin calls this a "course"), and the one you are recording (your recorded "track").  They are SEPARATE.  You can change the navigational-track — the "course" — as many times as you like, this will NOT affect your recorded "track".

So, I have a Garmin 1000.  I will press Start in Loughton with track N1.  At St Ives I will select course N2 and carry on.  At Spalding I'll select N3 and follow that.  Etc., all the way to Edinburgh and back again.  I will follow 20 courses (17 if you're using the official GPX files), but I will record only one single track of the whole event, all 1400+km of it.

There is a trick you need to know for audax: the Other Button — the Lap button!  The button next to the start/stop button is the lap button.  Now, I KNOW we're not doing laps, but the beauty of the lap button is that it restarts certain fields while not affecting others.  Therefore, when I leave St Ives, I will press Lap and my "Lap Distance" field will return to zero — and so the distance in that field will accurately reflect those contained on the routesheet.  I measure my progress on the lap with the Lap Speed field — the average speed, but only for the current lap.  Next to that field I also have "Average Speed" and this is the overall average speed of my entire LEL workout, from the beginning, and includes all the stops (Edge does not give you a moving-average, only an overall-average).  And there are other Lap fields.  Remembering to press Lap is the hardest part, the rest is all in how you set up the fields on your display.

And setting up the fields is an art in itself — I have a pair of data screens that I have become comfortable with over the last four years, riding quite a few brevets: one contains all the fields I use all the time, the other contains fields I check every now and again, and I flick between the two as I need to.  If you're heading straight into a Long One without having sorted these out for yourself then expect to be fiddling with these fields as you're riding to find a set that help rather than hinder.

Now, JUST TO BE CLEAR, you have to be careful on Garmin 800/810/820 devices — these earlier models CANNOT record more than about 340km reliably and are almost guaranteed to crash.  Instead, with those devices, you must regularly stop your recorded track and save it and start a new track, every 300km or so.  This is a device limitation on certain individual units (like my 800).  That's okay — it is possible to stitch all 20 recorded tracks back together when you get near a computer, before uploading to Strava.

good post .... thank you! .... I have the Edge 1000 and have never understood how to use the Lap button  :thumbsup:
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #8 on: 24 July, 2017, 10:08:35 am »
Wilky is absolutely correct. However I would never trust Garmin to record 1400km so I will stop the Garmin every 300km. You the. Have another maths problem to do whilst riding working out the overall average.

I mostly agree, Chris — I have the experience of losing a track, including on a 400 just a week ago when my 800 locked up at 365km.  However, the 1000 is much more reliable than previous models, and will record the full distance, at your own risk, obviously!  I recorded almost all of PBP on my 1000 in one go — it was keeping it charged up that became the issue, and I was so tired I was hallucinating and unable to make the necessary decisions to sort it out, so I'm missing a small amount.  I also managed nearly all of LEL2013 on my old-old 800 and would've managed all of it if I hadn't stopped at home as I passed by and plugged it into a computer, which stopped and saved the track — but that 800 died and the replacement is nowhere near as reliable.  Experience earns trust!

I would not worried by the overall-time thing, because LEL is a series of 50-100km rides, interspersed with merriment in the controls, and so long as each rider leaves each control with some time in hand then they should be fine, I'm sure — but having another maths problem is also "fun", when you're three days in without any sleep  ;)
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #9 on: 24 July, 2017, 10:31:23 am »
One more thing — you should clear out any old recorded Activities from the /Garmin/Activities folder/directory on your Garmin AND the MicroSD card (if you have one).  You should also remove all unnecessary Courses from the /Garmin/Courses directory.  It's just a hunch, but Garmins seem to hold onto data in memory about everything and that's one of the problems that cause them to prematurely fill up (memory) and then lock up — so give them less to think about by removing all the clutter and old stuff before you start.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #10 on: 24 July, 2017, 10:33:36 am »
And one final thing — saving your recorded tracks or Activities onto the MicroSD is a Good Thing!  If you save to the internal memory and your Garmin locks up then one of the few ways of restarting your device is to reset it and this deletes all your saved Activities, so you WILL lose everything.  However, if you save to the MicroSD card then, IF you need to do a reset, you WON'T lose the saved tracks, only the unfinished/unsaved track (and there are even ways to recover some of this, too).
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #11 on: 24 July, 2017, 01:32:30 pm »
When you do delete activities and courses always empty the recycling bin before disconnecting the Garmin. MacOS and I think windows does not finish the delete until you empty the trash. The files are simply marked for deletion and made invisible.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #12 on: 24 July, 2017, 02:33:16 pm »
When you do delete activities and courses always empty the recycling bin before disconnecting the Garmin. MacOS and I think windows does not finish the delete until you empty the trash. The files are simply marked for deletion and made invisible.

A very good point!  *scurries away to make sure he's emptied the Trash*
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #13 on: 24 July, 2017, 04:22:49 pm »
I have not had to do it for a while but as I remember you can connect the Garmin and then choose show all or make visible which will show all the rubbish in your file system and then delete properly.

Warning this can cause irreparable damage!!!

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #14 on: 24 July, 2017, 05:37:20 pm »
I use Path Finder on Mac, so I don't have to do quite that low-level file-handling shenanigans.  But, on viewing the Trash on both the device and the card, for two devices, all four locations were full of "honestly thought I'd deleted those" files.  They are now suitably fully deleted and I feel cleansed.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #15 on: 24 July, 2017, 08:47:42 pm »
the other thing to remember if you are a data geek is new batteries in your HRM, pwoermeter, cadence sensor, etc!

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #16 on: 25 July, 2017, 02:31:29 pm »
I'm also using an Edge 1000. I will be using the gpx/tcx files for each control and simply join them all together after completion. In the past I have had problems with routes over 200k on my Edge 1000 so keep things simple by keeping routes 100k or less.

Planet X Paul

  • The Green Machine
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #17 on: 25 July, 2017, 02:57:58 pm »
Edge 1000 user here.  I'm also in two minds as to whether to save each day (approx 300 Kms) and stitch them together or to let the unit run for the duration of the ride.  I have enough battery power to do this, and while I have recorded 600 Km in one go, I'm afraid of it throwing a wobbly (nothing to do with our esteemed cycling friend) and losing or corrupting the valuable track.  I would be devastated if that happened.  What to do?  What to do....   ???

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #18 on: 25 July, 2017, 03:12:28 pm »
On PBP, and my test-LEL-southern-half, I simply had one track to follow and kept it as one file.

It's on an Edge 200 so really basic but that's all I've got this time: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/23238900 . The only difference is I'll have N & S ones as a back-up but don't intend to use them.

Note: my route between Horncastle and Thirsk doesn't follow the *official* route but is a tiny bit longer and much flatter. That's due to medical reasons, not a particular desire to visit Grimsby.

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #19 on: 25 July, 2017, 09:06:51 pm »
I always save the track at main controls and restart for the next leg — paranoia after losing a 300km ride

Also helps with thinking the ride in stages rather than '1125km to dest.' etc.

It's very easy to stitch back together at the end using either basecamp or https://www.fitfiletools.com

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #20 on: 27 July, 2017, 11:33:37 am »
Many thanks for the answers!

Also I wanted to find out what happens when my garmin runs out of battery: do I lose the previously recorded data?

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #21 on: 27 July, 2017, 12:07:00 pm »
Many thanks for the answers!

Also I wanted to find out what happens when my garmin runs out of battery: do I lose the previously recorded data?

Garmin Edge devices stop the track, but don't save it.  When they get a bit of juice and switch back on then you hit Go and they carry on from where they left off.

I have no experience of eTrex or other Garmin models.
Lockdown lethargy. RRTY: wot's that? Can't remember if I'm on #8 or #9 ...

Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #22 on: 27 July, 2017, 01:43:21 pm »
etrex automatically saves the track. If it runs out of power, it will just continue where it left off once you erplace the batteries.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #23 on: 27 July, 2017, 01:44:14 pm »
Etrexes don't run out of battery  ;D

When this does happen Garmins don't just 'die' they 'shut down' - that should mean that any necessary housekeeping of tracklog etc is done in the process.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Help with Garmin
« Reply #24 on: 27 July, 2017, 02:13:12 pm »
When this does happen Garmins don't just 'die' they 'shut down' - that should mean that any necessary housekeeping of tracklog etc is done in the process.

The exception being if you remove the battery without shutting the unit down properly (or if the unit develops a battery contact fault).  That can cause corruption and lossage, but IME that happens a lot less often that I'd expect.

The human-readable GPX format is somewhat more conducive to recovering data from a corrupted file than the binary FIT format, though there are tools which will have a go at it.