[LEL17] Charging devices on LEL

[citoyen]

Website FAQ suggests opportunities for charging devices on LEL will be limited. Hmmm.

What set-ups do people intend to use to keep their gadgets topped up on the move? Looking for some recommendations, really.

Things I will need to charge/provide power for:
Lights
Garmin
Phone
Di2 (probably)
GoPro (if I can be arsed to use it)

USB battery packs would work but could prove lots of faff. And they're heavy (although spares could be left in bag to be picked up at controls).

Alas, my old SON is not disc brake compatible so I would need a new one if I were to go down that route. More expense, buggrit.

Would also need a means of connecting devices to dynamo - based on research so far, I like the look of the Igaro D1. Any thoughts on that?

Oh the joys of being a 21st century cyclist!

[perpetual dan]

I was wondering this earlier. Di2 doesn't really concern me, but lights, a Satmap, phone and FitBit as my watch / alarm clock does.
My plan involves getting a dyno-hub and light with USB, and a spare mains charger in the bag in case there's need / opportunity. How many things it can charge at once I'm not sure, and if the weather is crap fewer cables might be a good idea. I'd want to waterproof the GPS connection as far as possible as loosing that would be awkward, but it can do 8 hours or so on a charge. All the others can go a couple of days without a charge if not over used. Experience says I'm not that communicative when I'm riding, but would be nice to have the option.
The extra weight of batteries for 5 days I could do without!

[DrMekon]

Small power pack in the top tube bag, bigguns UI n drop bags at sleep stops worked for me. Had enough power left that I rode the last 100km or so with Glympse running on my phone so my progress could be tracked.

[mattc]

The TCR riders are (IMHO) the biggest single repository of experience about this. Look at their blogs or <shudders> the Facebook group.

Need to know about lights? Ask Audaxers.
Charging a sh1tload of useless gadgets for weeks? TCR!

[Chris N]

I'll only need to top up my phone and ipod on the ride.  Dynamo primary lights, lithium AAs for secondary lights and GPS and a 5200 mAh USB battery pack charged by the dynamo (Luxos U) for the non-essential stuff.

[Phil W]

Some rough guidelines on requirements.

• The battery of a smartphone in flight mode and used for the occasional photo will only drop to about 60% during the event. This is based on my Samsung Galaxy S2 on LEL2013.
  
• If not using dynamo or AA battery based lights and GPS then you'll need an external battery pack to guarantee charging where and when you need it.  A quoted capacity of 10,000mAh will cover your GPS needs.
  
• On LEL2013 I only topped up the GPS with the external battery pack when stopped at controls.  I got away with two lipstick size 3,600mAh battery packs and starting with a fully charged GPS, but then I did turn off the GPS when stopped at controls
  

So I'd suggest getting yourself 2 or 3 external battery packs, get them fully charged, and swap them over at your bag drops as necessary. The higher capacity packs are better value for money, the lower capacity ones are generally lighter and smaller.  The higher the charging current supported by the battery pack the quicker they can charge your devices (up to the max current the device will try and draw).  Anker are well known in this field.  If charging whilst navigating then your GPS may need a special cable depending on the model.

[citoyen]

The TCR riders are (IMHO) the biggest single repository of experience about this.

Good thinking. Will do.

[wilkyboy]

I wrote a post on this on my bloggety back in April, here:

http://www.16inchwheels.uk/2016/04/11/powering-devices-on-long-rides/

This has been pretty reliable, although I think the physics and maths is somewhat over-simplified.  I would advise building in a bit of comfort zone on the numbers (by carrying one extra lipstick battery, for example).  And bear in mind that USB-output numbers on dynamo are significantly affected by speed, so everything takes about 50% longer to charge than you'd expect and cache batteries charge to only about 80% peak charge (although Garmins seem to get fully charged, go figure).

It's worth noting that RAIN will bugger up your plans: we had Biblical rain on a ride at the weekend and there was enough moisture in my Mark-1 Luxos light that I had to disconnect the switch completely and so had to rely on power from lipstick batteries;  Mark-2s and newer have a fixed, sealed cable-entry and don't suffer from this issue, but the "carry a backup" principle is sound.  On PBP I carried two spare AAs in a 2xAA-powered USB charged — ostensibly they were so I could run my spare front light if I had dynamo failure, but doubled-up as a AA-powered USB charger, should I have needed it (which I did, but that's another story).

I had plenty of charge left in the battery and in both Garmins and the phone at the end of the 200 at the weekend, but I would've been a bit scuppered on a 1400km ride.  I will be sending a large battery (or several small ones) up the road in the drop bag just in case my dynamo set-up fails in some way, as that gives me options to keep devices alive.  I'm fine using a routesheet, but I'd like the track to record, because if it's not on Strava then it didn't happen, etc. 

[simonp]

My solutions:

Lights:

 - either dynamo or something with its own external battery pack, such as the B&M Ixon IQ Speed Premium

GPS:

 - use a GPS which takes AA batteries

Phone:

 - external battery to keep it topped up

[wilkyboy]

Would also need a means of connecting devices to dynamo - based on research so far, I like the look of the Igaro D1. Any thoughts on that?

It's the first time I've seen the Igaro — that looks like a great piece of kit    The comments on SJS Cycles note specifically that someone bought it because their B&M Luxos IQ2 suffered in the rain, with which I concur.  However, I love the beam shape of the IQ2 when it is set up correctly, so this is NOT an either/or for me.

If I had one of these I would probably look to run it to my Carradice to charge a pair of lipstick batteries — one on charge in the bag and one up front charging the Garmins from my top-tube bag.  One in, one out.  The only thing I would add would be a switch to stop it taking power during the night — I could get off the bike and disconnect the USB in my Carradice, but it would be nicer to have that ability without stopping.

[citoyen]

The battery of a smartphone in flight mode and used for the occasional photo will only drop to about 60% during the event. This is based on my Samsung Galaxy S2 on LEL2013.

Flight mode is indeed a useful feature. I was thinking about using my phone for live GPS tracking (via mapmytracks or glympse or somesuch) but maybe I won't. I don't know if anyone is going to care enough about following my live progress. And if they do, they will be able to see when I check in at controls on the website.

If not using dynamo or AA battery based lights and GPS then you'll need an external battery pack to guarantee charging where and when you need it.  A quoted capacity of 10,000mAh will cover your GPS needs.

I used a 16,000mAh battery pack on WCW and it was more than enough to keep my GPS and phone topped up - or would have been if I'd remembered to plug in my Garmin at Chester. 

It's also quite heavy and bulky (and doesn't fit in my top tube bag), and something smaller like 10,000mAh would be more convenient. I can get a good 300km out of my Edge 510 between charges. A bit of internet research suggests that the capacity of the 510's internal battery is 800mAh, and the iPhone 5S has a capacity of 1,570mAh, so even if I need to charge up both once per day, 10,000mAh should be plenty, especially if I keep a spare in my bag to swap at sleep stops. I don't know how much juice the Di2 will need to keep it topped up but it won't be much.

On LEL2013 I only topped up the GPS with the external battery pack when stopped at controls.  I got away with two lipstick size 3,600mAh battery packs and starting with a fully charged GPS, but then I did turn off the GPS when stopped at controls

I tend to leave mine running at controls (with autopause off). It doesn't seem to make much difference to battery burn time - which I suspect is because turning it on and re-finding the satellites is a big drain. Although that only really applies to short stops. For longer (sleep) stops, turning it off would be sensible.

Anker are well known in this field.

Aye. The one I use at the moment is Anker and I'm very happy with it. Their cables are good too - the iPhone is very temperamental about which cables it works with but seems happy to let you use Anker ones.

If charging whilst navigating then your GPS may need a special cable depending on the model.

The Edge 510 doesn't seem to mind being charged while in use (using the cable that came with it). The only issue there will be the power source - if I go down the dynamo route, I'm guessing I'll still need a battery pack to ensure a consistent output.

[citoyen]

I wrote a post on this on my bloggety back in April, here:

Cool. Will have a good read of that. Looks like lots of good info there.

I'm fine using a routesheet, but I'd like the track to record, because if it's not on Strava then it didn't happen, etc. 

Indeed. I use Strava to record my rides for much the same reason that some people stop to take pictures.

[L CC]

On our tandem we have one dynamo, but two GPS and two phones. We did, however, have 4 drop bags.

We put extra 16,000mAh batteries in the bag at Edinburgh and charged everything up in the Travelodge.

[redfalo]

My solutions:

Lights:

 - either dynamo or something with its own external battery pack, such as the B&M Ixon IQ Speed Premium

GPS:

 - use a GPS which takes AA batteries

Phone:

 - external battery to keep it topped up

Exactly the same here. This setup worked pretty well for me on PBP.

As for the GPS, I use a Garmin GPSmaps 64s. Normally I stuff it with rechargeable AAs, but on PBP used single-use lithium batteries. I think I needed 8 for the round trip, including the ride from London to Paris. On LEL, I think I will use my rechargeables, and have spares at the backdrop. If in a pinch, every garage and off license sells AA batteries.

And on stretches without many turns (Scotland) or many other riders (at the start) putting it into energy saving mode which switches off the display can extend the battery life span even more.

Phone was in airplane mode most of the time.

[citoyen]

It's the first time I've seen the Igaro — that looks like a great piece of kit 

It does look good. Would be nice to get positive reports from any yacfers who have used one but I'm tempted anyway.
 

[wilkyboy]

Anker are well known in this field.

Aye. The one I use at the moment is Anker and I'm very happy with it. Their cables are good too - the iPhone is very temperamental about which cables it works with but seems happy to let you use Anker ones.

I'm using Vinsic 3600mAh lipstick-size cache batteries — smalller than Ankher and still very reliable (so far). 

As for iPhone reliability — maybe you've found some dodgy cables, but all the cables I've ever tried have worked fine.  I've got a couple of very short (10cm) Amazon Essentials ones that I filed down to fit through the USB port on my iPhone 5S's waterproof case and they are reliable and short enough not to get tangled up in anything.  The longer (20cm) one I bought for my wife works well too, without having to file it down to fit.  I carry two of everything, because I have had cables fail mid-600 before now.

If charging whilst navigating then your GPS may need a special cable depending on the model.

The Edge 510 doesn't seem to mind being charged while in use (using the cable that came with it). The only issue there will be the power source - if I go down the dynamo route, I'm guessing I'll still need a battery pack to ensure a consistent output.

The 800 and 1000 don't need special cables, but I've heard others say the 500 does — I would be surprised if this were the case, so try it and see.  You probably want just a normal cable, and NOT a special "data-charge-mode" cable (I made that phrase up) — Blackberry phones and PlayStation controllers, for example, need to have the data line set so the device thinks it's connected to a computer before it will start to charge — but obviously that kicks a Garmin into device-mode, which automatically stops recording and saves the track — THAT's why you should avoid those special cables.

As for whether you need a battery pack for dynamo charging then yes-but-no — it will depend on which USB charger you use and whether it includes a built-in cache battery (capacitor).  The B&M Luxos IQ2 light DOES include this and so maintains the output for a few seconds after you stop.  Several others do, too.  The older Garmins show a full-screen "lost external power" message that you must cancel — that's annoying; newer models are more discrete and just show you a message at the top and you can still see all the data.  The advantage of having a battery pack as well is that when your Garmin is fully charged, you can continue to collect juice for use at night when really you want your dynamo to power ONLY your light.

[Yellow Giant]

If charging whilst navigating then your GPS may need a special cable depending on the model.

The Edge 510 doesn't seem to mind being charged while in use (using the cable that came with it). The only issue there will be the power source - if I go down the dynamo route, I'm guessing I'll still need a battery pack to ensure a consistent output.

I have recently bought a B + M Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U as the blurb says "You can charge USB mobile devices (phones, GPS receivers, MP3 players) with USB power. The buffer battery integrated into the headlamp ensures a constant charging current - output: 5 volts, 1 ampere."  Thought this would overcome this issue.

Went out yesterday to test how the Garmin would charge and found the Garmin would turn itself off as power supply lost.  The red charge light was on constantly.
Any users experienced anything similar?

[citoyen]

As for iPhone reliability — maybe you've found some dodgy cables, but all the cables I've ever tried have worked fine.

It's only the very cheap cables I've had trouble with - the £2 ones you get from Tiger, for example.

The 800 and 1000 don't need special cables, but I've heard others say the 500 does — I would be surprised if this were the case, so try it and see.  You probably want just a normal cable, and NOT a special "data-charge-mode" cable (I made that phrase up) — Blackberry phones and PlayStation controllers, for example, need to have the data line set so the device thinks it's connected to a computer before it will start to charge — but obviously that kicks a Garmin into device-mode, which automatically stops recording and saves the track — THAT's why you should avoid those special cables.

In this respect, the 510 seems to have more in common with the 1000 than with the old 500. I've certainly never had any problems with charging the 510 while on the move - even using a data-compatible cable.

As for whether you need a battery pack for dynamo charging then yes-but-no — it will depend on which USB charger you use and whether it includes a built-in cache battery (capacitor).

Yeah, true. I think I'd prefer to use a battery pack as a buffer anyway. Or as you say, just use the dynamo power for charging the battery pack(s) during the day and only use the battery packs for charging devices.

[citoyen]

Went out yesterday to test how the Garmin would charge and found the Garmin would turn itself off as power supply lost.  The red charge light was on constantly.
Any users experienced anything similar?

Not with the 510 (though I do get the 'power lost' warning that Wilkyboy mentions if the cable becomes detached).

Which model are you using?

[Yellow Giant]

Went out yesterday to test how the Garmin would charge and found the Garmin would turn itself off as power supply lost.  The red charge light was on constantly.
Any users experienced anything similar?

Not with the 510 (though I do get the 'power lost' warning that Wilkyboy mentions if the cable becomes detached).

Which model are you using?

Garmin Tourer. 

Wonder if a loose connection then...?

[wilkyboy]

If charging whilst navigating then your GPS may need a special cable depending on the model.

The Edge 510 doesn't seem to mind being charged while in use (using the cable that came with it). The only issue there will be the power source - if I go down the dynamo route, I'm guessing I'll still need a battery pack to ensure a consistent output.

I have recently bought a B + M Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U as the blurb says "You can charge USB mobile devices (phones, GPS receivers, MP3 players) with USB power. The buffer battery integrated into the headlamp ensures a constant charging current - output: 5 volts, 1 ampere."  Thought this would overcome this issue.

Went out yesterday to test how the Garmin would charge and found the Garmin would turn itself off as power supply lost.  The red charge light was on constantly.
Any users experienced anything similar?

I can confirm after something like 20,000km of riding with a Luxos IQ2 Mk1 that this is NOT the case — I have NEVER experienced that EXCEPT where the Garmin was so depleted that it was literally running from the dynamo only and hadn't had time to be juiced up in the battery department. 

If the Garmin is so depleted that it cannot run itself for a few seconds then you do need to give it a chance to charge up a leeetle bit before stopping — 15 minutes' riding or more.  The cache battery provides about 1A of charging for about 15-20 seconds only — which is enough to stop at a junction, or slow down to give way before speeding up again.   It's not a perfect system and the cache battery itself takes time to charge, so you have to factor all that in.

Once your device has enough juice to run on its own battery for a minute or two then all the power on/off/on conditions from the dynamo shouldn't be a problem.  Normal conditions on an audax involve a lot of going forwards and not a lot of stopping (unless it's the London Sightseer) and so you should — under audax conditions — avoid this switching-off scenario.

Also, riding at night with the light on is very imperfect — the dynamo can only provide so much power, and the light is taking its share, and so it may be giving your Garmin only enough to run and not enough to charge the battery at the same time.  That's why you may want to consider collecting charge in a small cache battery during the day to use at night.

[Greenbank]

It's the first time I've seen the Igaro — that looks like a great piece of kit 

It does look good. Would be nice to get positive reports from any yacfers who have used one but I'm tempted anyway.

marcusjb may be able to pitch in when he's back from his tandem touring. His positive soundbite is on the Igaro website.

[Yellow Giant]

[Once your device has enough juice to run on its own battery for a minute or two then all the power on/off/on conditions from the dynamo shouldn't be a problem.  Normal conditions on an audax involve a lot of going forwards and not a lot of stopping (unless it's the London Sightseer) and so you should — under audax conditions — avoid this switching-off scenario.

Also, riding at night with the light on is very imperfect — the dynamo can only provide so much power, and the light is taking its share, and so it may be giving your Garmin only enough to run and not enough to charge the battery at the same time.  That's why you may want to consider collecting charge in a small cache battery during the day to use at night.

Thanks for the reassurance.  Will charge cache first before attempting to charge garmin.  Will also charge seperate cache battery as backup.

[wilkyboy]

[Once your device has enough juice to run on its own battery for a minute or two then all the power on/off/on conditions from the dynamo shouldn't be a problem.  Normal conditions on an audax involve a lot of going forwards and not a lot of stopping (unless it's the London Sightseer) and so you should — under audax conditions — avoid this switching-off scenario.

Also, riding at night with the light on is very imperfect — the dynamo can only provide so much power, and the light is taking its share, and so it may be giving your Garmin only enough to run and not enough to charge the battery at the same time.  That's why you may want to consider collecting charge in a small cache battery during the day to use at night.

Thanks for the reassurance.  Will charge cache first before attempting to charge garmin.  Will also charge seperate cache battery as backup.

I was really just making sure your test was valid — you need to give everything time to accumulate charge at a decent rate of power before stopping and expecting anything to keep running.  If your test did satisfy those two conditions then of course it's possible you have a problem, but you need to be careful in how you diagnose it so that you don't fix a problem that doesn't actually exist, if that makes sense   

[Kim]

My solutions:

Lights:

 - either dynamo or something with its own external battery pack, such as the B&M Ixon IQ Speed Premium

GPS:

 - use a GPS which takes AA batteries

Phone:

 - external battery to keep it topped up

Fine application of the 'KISS' principle.  It's not just about having enough power; it's about reliability.

Dynamo lights just work.
Waterproof devices with swappable internal batteries just work.
Anything relying on USB connections on a moving bicycle in crap weather is asking for trouble.  Doubly so if they're exposed.
Anything involving high-level decision making by a weary audaxer is asking for trouble.
Anything untested is asking for trouble.

Phones, cameras, etc. are not mission-critical, and you can afford more complex charging solutions for those.  On the other hand, for something like LEL, I'd strongly consider the advantages of something like a Nokia dumbphone, with a battery that will last all week.

(Disclaimer: My experience is also touring, so biased towards dynamo and opportunistic mains power.  If I were coming into LEL^[1] without existing kit^[2], I'd probably lean more heavily on disposable^[3] batteries.)


_{[1] Yeah, right.
[2] Yeah, right.
[3] For values of 'disposable' that include things like 18650 cells which are used once then abandoned in a bag drop.}