Author Topic: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?  (Read 4248 times)

Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« on: 12 December, 2022, 06:33:01 pm »
Hello all,

Hope all are well, soon to get a bike frame back from having some work done on it light blasted and stripped of paint. Planning to paint it, considering using Hammerite and just wondering whether anyone may have any tips please or suggestions from experience?

Thank you in advance,


robgul

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Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #1 on: 12 December, 2022, 06:38:19 pm »
Don't - just don't.

If you've had some work done it must be a reasonable frame - get it powder-coated with a lacquer top coat . . . looks good and is durable, and not that expensive if you look around (cash is king  ;) )

Hammerite, or Smoothrite, is very thick and even if you use the aerosol versions it just doesn't go on to tubes very evenly. 


Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #2 on: 12 December, 2022, 06:47:13 pm »
the trick to getting hammerite on smoothly is to dilute it. Then multiple coats.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #3 on: 12 December, 2022, 07:09:11 pm »
Thanks appreciate the suggestions, have researched powdercoating although wanted the challenge of painting this one by hand.

How much would you suggest diluting the hammerite please? Do you have any suggestions on the various types of finish, matt, hammered, smooth, etc? These seems to be new developments as previously thought it was just a hammered finish.

Thanks

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #4 on: 12 December, 2022, 07:45:54 pm »
Hammerite can take 6 weeks or more to harden properly.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #5 on: 12 December, 2022, 07:49:59 pm »
I've never used them, so this is not a recommendation, but https://spray.bike/ advertise as being designed for painting bike frames.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #6 on: 12 December, 2022, 07:51:42 pm »
Many many years ago - indeed in the mid 1960's I hand painted a 19.5" 1937 Hetchins Curly Track Frame after it was stolen and totally stripped.
I did it with Valspar Black Enamel and a very very high quality 1" paint brush ( Hamilton Perfection ) and when it became just tacky I then sponged it down with warm soapy water and and left it hanging to dry.
The result was just like it had been sprayed at the local frame shop.

I then lettered it up with Gold Block Letters and applied a thin coat of clear ships varnish over the lettering.

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Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #7 on: 12 December, 2022, 07:58:22 pm »
I've never used them, so this is not a recommendation, but https://spray.bike/ advertise as being designed for painting bike frames.
Acrylic paints ought to give good finish for minimal effort, and will afford you bolder colours than cellulose paints will.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #8 on: 12 December, 2022, 09:31:09 pm »
My initial reaction is also 'don't do it'
But
I've got a hack frame that I painted with full strength Hammerite a number of years ago. It looks bloody awful. It's chipped badly and showing the glorious Raleigh 1980s orange underneath in spots.

As with all painting, I strongly suspect that one of the main things to consider is proper (thorough) preparation of the surfaces with degreaser and rubbing it down.
That was my error on the Raleigh, but it would still look dreadful.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #9 on: 13 December, 2022, 01:55:08 am »
When I was in 6th form a kid (spoiled one) was bought a Triumph Spitfire by his father. They painted it with Hammerite. I really can't find words to describe the outcome.

FifeingEejit

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Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #10 on: 13 December, 2022, 02:14:41 am »
Someone I onc knew had a Saab 95 called "dulux", the name coming from the brand of white emulsion it was painted with

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Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #11 on: 13 December, 2022, 07:43:50 am »
Thanks for the advice and suggestions. Get the impression it may not look very good!! Although may give it a go anyway…

Thinking to try diluting hammerite with some thinners… any further ideas around this please? Also, any further thoughts on types of metal paint to use. Do they vary much? I think there was a suggestion for an enamel also curious how this may vary to hammerite. Apologies, lots of questions but appreciate the guidance!

Thanks

IanDG

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Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #12 on: 13 December, 2022, 08:25:17 am »
I sprayed an old Raleigh with Hammerite 10 years ago. Stripped to bare frame, rust treated etc then built up primer and top coat slowly and a spray lacquer over transfers.

It does scratch easy and there are a few marks on the frame but it is still being used for commuting across Edinburgh by one of my boys.

Photos here

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #13 on: 13 December, 2022, 09:14:18 am »
Any cellulose thinner will work, you don't have to buy the overpriced Hammerite thinners.

I recommend using medium-priced brushes and throwing them when you are finished. Less environmental damage than the litres of solvent you'd need to properly clean them for reuse.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #14 on: 13 December, 2022, 06:29:28 pm »
Thanks all, much appeciated.

Any further thoughts on types of paint, wondering whether there may be more suitable alternatives to hammerite - perhaps a epoxy primer and top coat, and if so any particular brands people would recommend?  thank you

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #15 on: 14 December, 2022, 07:47:09 am »
Car paint in a tin. If it’s been blasted you probably want an etch primer, undercoat, colour and lacquer. You can buy from Halfrauds or internet. You can also get 2 pack in a tin - with warnings about being careful with breathing etc.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #16 on: 14 December, 2022, 09:12:45 am »
Car paint in a tin. If it’s been blasted you probably want an etch primer, undercoat, colour and lacquer. You can buy from Halfrauds or internet. You can also get 2 pack in a tin - with warnings about being careful with breathing etc.

I have just done a frame (my typical finish, not up to the standards of this forum!) in 2 pack aerosol. It wants decent conditions for spraying, seems to dry reasonably fast but has IMHE a use life of about 8 hours (which I think is what was on the tin). Beyond that the hardener is working too far and the job becomes iffy or impossible. The salesman told me 12 hours! So far I get the impression that the finish is very brittle; maybe more durable than 1 pack automotive but not as easy to use and a bit more expensive. At that rate one could be better off with a good powdercoat if the paintshop is not too far away.

I have also had a bit of experience of aerosol Hammerite (Smoothrite) but over other paint, not stripped back to the metal. It didn't like it at all, bubbles all over the place. I ended up stripping the frame with a blowlamp and sandpaper and starting again from scratch with automotive aerosol (which is still holding apart from where it has pulled off under electrical tape)!

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #17 on: 14 December, 2022, 09:42:48 am »
I've used Rustoleum on a frame, not expecting perfection, and result seemed passable - but again, not up to the standards of this forum!

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #18 on: 14 December, 2022, 11:15:26 am »
I've used Rustoleum on a frame, not expecting perfection, and result seemed passable - but again, not up to the standards of this forum!

Important point standards:)

My On One Bootzipper is painted with 2 pack primer, orange and lacquer from a rattle can. It’s fine for what I wanted, but not a ‘good’ paint job. I found I could use a whole can of 2 pack long before it had cured. Multiple thin coats with xx minutes drying time. I sprayed outside. I’ve also done a couple of naked carbon forks with Halfords acrylic - primer, paint, lacquer - and they’ve been fine. Better than the frame but I would be a bit disappointed if I’d paid someone to do it.

For a good job I’d rely on someone that can spray and has access to the right equipment to deploy their skills.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #19 on: 14 December, 2022, 11:41:17 am »
Just a note re Hammerite. It is no longer the Hammerite of old and as stated above, takes forever to dry and harden.
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Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #20 on: 19 December, 2022, 08:25:43 am »
I've painted half a dozen frames at home though I've never stripped all of the factory paint from all areas of a frame. On paints, I have been disappointed with Hammerite brush paint. A glue like consistency that never fully cured. Recent experience with a brush enamel paint in gloss black from Halfords which looks great but have not used the frame so cannot comment on adhesion/longevity. Previously found that Halfords rattle cans gave an even looking coat but it is easily scratched. I have also heard of people using Montana rattle cans, which is graffiti paint thought to have good adhesion.

A few tips in no particular order:

Spraypaint gives a thin coat and so you will see imperfections in the metal, and so thorough sanding is important to flatten the surface. This requires various grades of abrasive paper down to 800 grit. Cheap abrasive paper is a false economy as it wears out fast.

A good quality anti-corrosion primer is vital or rust will bubble through in future, even if you think you've taken it down back to bare metal. 

More sanding between coats is needed with brush paint. It is really fiddly trying to sand the paint at the joints of a bike frame, or around a headtube or bottom bracket, so spray is preferable here. You will lose definition at the lugs on a traditionally constructed steel frame.

The addition of thinner allows brush paint to flow, but too much will cause it to drip, which you may not notice til too late. It's difficult to get the correct viscosity and that changes as the paint in the tin evaporates during a painting session.

Environmental conditions matter. Weather needs to be dry and warm otherwise you will see poor adhesion. In the UK this probably means waiting til summer.

The frame needs to hang for many weeks between coats, otherwise the lower coats will take even longer to cure and your paint will scratch easily. Paint shops don't need to wait as long for the paint to cure because they have different type of paint.

Insects and dust can ruin a paint job. This may mean not painting outdoors, so your house will smell of paint fumes the day you do any painting. You won't be able to cook on a gas flame that day. It's not healthy to breathe those fumes so you should wear a respirator with charcoal filter while you're painting; ideally you'd leave the house for a few hours as the paint is drying. 

Pale colours can take three times as many layers as dark ones. So black paintwork needs at least two coats, white paint needs half a dozen or more in addition to primer.

I reckon I have spent as much on abrasive paper, primer, and paint for one frame as it would cost to have a powder coater do the job, plus many hours across many weeks (due to cure time).

Factory applied paint is remarkable stuff: it's very hard with superb adhesion. I say factory paint, but what we get on a new bike is a heat treated industrial finish. By contrast, the paint we consumers can buy in rattle cans and tins is a quite different substance, i.e. it really is just paint. For me this meant lowering my expectations regarding its longevity.

So painting at home makes good sense for retouching a patch, or painting a single tube. It makes some sense if you're not stripping the factory paint on all portions of the frame and if you're not changing the colour.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #21 on: 21 December, 2022, 06:04:07 pm »
Thanks so much everyone have learnt lots and found all of the replies very informative. Very grateful 😀

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #22 on: 21 December, 2022, 07:28:55 pm »
There is a lengthy thread on the Cycling UK forum re: painting frames - including photos of examples. Worth searching for.

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #23 on: 21 December, 2022, 07:49:23 pm »
What colour were you thinking of painting it?
"Ott's Law states that the worst weather will coincide with the worst part (for that weather) of any planned ride"

Re: Painting a frame with Hammerite any tips from experience?
« Reply #24 on: 22 December, 2022, 09:05:22 pm »
Thanks very much again! Will check out the other forum.

Am thinking now to try doing a touch up repair job rather than a full paint job after reading peoples accounts and suggestions. So colours would be silver and blue, also wondering about having a go at lug lining over the existing paint work.

Thanks again