Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: nikki on 15 April, 2021, 09:37:36 pm

Title: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 15 April, 2021, 09:37:36 pm
I think my Aldi 14.4V Workzone cordless job has drilled/screwed its last.

What should I be looking at to replace it with?

I probably wouldn't use it loads, but when I do it'll be proper timber constructions and metalwork. I'm not rolling in cash, but am ready to buy something that'll last.

Is it time to suck it up and get one of those 18V DeWalt ones for ~£100?
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 15 April, 2021, 09:48:54 pm
Robert Dyas currently have an 18v Makita reduced from £153.99 to £133.99.
Not that there's that much wrong with De Walt, but Makita is (IMHO) slightly better quality.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 15 April, 2021, 10:08:59 pm
Nothing bad to say about my 18V Makita drill (it's one of the lighter LXT ones with a brushed motor).  Or the circular saw, until I dropped it[1].  The little hoover thing[2] is rather handy for swarf, random stairs-mud and sucking up LED legs.  The multi-function oscillating tool is also brilliant, but it's designed for someone with significantly larger hands than me.

The batteries are evil, though, as the management electronics will brick itself in response to three failed attempts to charge.  'Safety' feature apparently:   The problem comes when you leave the battery lying around for long enough that whichever cell powers the management electronics goes under voltage, which means it fails to charge.  "Hmm" you think, and remove and replace it in the charger, thinking it's not seated properly.  Still not charging.  You now have one more go.  At this point you need to be savvy enough to dismantle the battery and charge the cells back up to spec individually with a lab power supply or similar before letting it near the official charger again, otherwise its game over.

In practice, I've yet to experience this failure mode[3], but I'm careful to recharge the batteries after use, and they generally get used for something every few weeks.  If it's going to spend a lot of time gathering dust, another manufacturer might be a better bet.


[1] Causing the dust extraction attachment thingy to snap off.  I was able to obtain a replacement for under a fiver.  And then repair the original with epoxy while waiting for it to be delivered.
[2] Dyson fangirl MIL kept threatening to buy me a cordless Dyson thing.  So I bought the Makita as a pre-emptive strike.
[3] I've had three batteries:  Two official Makita 3Ah ones bought in 2014 and 2017 respectively, still going strong.  One Chinesium knock-off that died of chronic cell-imbalance within a couple of years of light use.  Turns out that the imitations don't even attempt to balance the cells, which makes them a false economy unless you particularly enjoy hacking batteries.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 15 April, 2021, 10:51:25 pm
hmmm, yes, I like Makita stuff (thanks for the tip, Jurek!), but that battery lockout thing would be a liability with my usage patterns. Poop.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Diver300 on 16 April, 2021, 12:03:37 am
My Bosch, the previous model to this:- https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/p/psr-1800-li-2-06039a3100-v100035553 (https://www.bosch-diy.com/gb/en/p/psr-1800-li-2-06039a3100-v100035553) is has done me very well. It's got two batteries, and the hedge trimmer takes the same batteries, which meant that I was able to buy that without batteries and just use the ones that came with the drill.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 16 April, 2021, 07:35:14 am
I bought an erbaur recently. two batteries, decent bag/case (with lots of space for things like bits and screws).

It is a decent drill, good driver. Not brilliant as a hammer drill - but then I'm drilling stuff that my mains 750W drill struggled with.
About £90
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: rafletcher on 16 April, 2021, 08:46:55 am
I got a DeWalt. OK for occasional use.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nicknack on 16 April, 2021, 09:03:42 am
I've got a nice Black and Decker.

I bought it 50 years ago.

But it's not cordless.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: hubner on 16 April, 2021, 09:11:55 am
I think for occasional use and something that'll last, I'd go for corded. And they're much cheaper for the same quality.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 16 April, 2021, 09:50:16 am
I think for occasional use and something that'll last, I'd go for corded. And they're much cheaper for the same quality.

This ^

But ....

Corded drills tend to be very good as drills (and hammer drills) but tend not to be dual function ie drill / drivers so it depends what you want. And they are so convenient.
Also cordless drills aren't that expensive any-more its the batteries that are expensive. So if you pick a manufacturer you can get a one and a couple of batteries then you can get other tools from the same manufacturer as naked  versions (ie without batteries) at a reasonable price and then just use the batteries you already have.
This does mean going with the big guys - Makita / Bosch/ Metabo / Dewalt or Milwaukee.
Stay away from own brand stuff as there is no guarantee you can get compatible stuff or even a matching new battery the next year (or even the next month).

II just blew about £300 on a Metabo 18v combi drill and impact driver but that gets me three batteries to play with which will be enough for anything I need so my next tool will be a naked one.

Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 16 April, 2021, 11:04:24 am

I'm already fighting power tools being designed for bigger hands than mine, and I find corded tools add extra weight and pull where I don't want it. I don't often have a power outlet near where I'm working either, so it's cordless for me.

Diver300's comment got me thinking about other tools that could use the same batteries, and I ended up in much the same place as this:
[...]its the batteries that are expensive. So if you pick a manufacturer you can get a one and a couple of batteries then you can get other tools from the same manufacturer as naked  versions (ie without batteries) at a reasonable price and then just use the batteries you already have.

I'm also thinking seriously about getting a drill and an impact driver, as continuously swapping between pilot bit, clearance bit, countersink and driver on the current project is getting a bit tedious!
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 16 April, 2021, 11:17:26 am
Metabo have an offer on at the moment where you can claim a free battery. Need to spend about £280 at a recognised Matabo dealer.
Worth looking at depending on how much you want to spend. My drill and impact driver set qualified so I got an extra 4A/h battery (or will when they get round to sending it).

I used https://www.kelvinpowertools.com mainly because everywhere else was out of stock and I needed them for this weekend. Got this set:

https://www.kelvinpowertools.com/metabo-18v-brushless-set:-combi-drill-impact-driver-2x-4ah-lihd-c-110-p-20506

I like Metabo but I expect the other major brands are just as good at the same price points. I borrowed a friends Milwaukee set the other week and that was great, just didn't like the look as much and whilst its a tool I though I might as well get something I found pleasing. The drill is made in Germany the impact driver is designed in Germany but made in China. I also like the pulse function on the Metabo for removing stuck or damaged screws.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 16 April, 2021, 11:41:33 am
I'm also thinking seriously about getting a drill and an impact driver, as continuously swapping between pilot bit, clearance bit, countersink and driver on the current project is getting a bit tedious!

On this basis I took a punt on the surprisingly skookum knockoff Makita impact driver (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AERn5japFs8), back when it was about 26USD delivered.  So far the little magnet that helps keep the bit in place has disintegrated[1], but this doesn't seem to have caused any bit-falling-out problems.  The trigger's a little sensitive, but I don't have a sense of whether that's normal or not - my woodworking projects tend to be at the more delicate end of what you'd expect to use something like this for.  Disclaimer: I haven't performed any drop tests onto a concrete floor from the top of a ladder, or coupled it to another impact driver for bit-to-bit combat.

I've also bought the ubiquitous knock-off angle grinder, which seems to be based on the same electrickery, for a similar price.  Limitations of the 100mm disc size notwithstanding, it's been fine for the few jobs I've used it for.  (So far it's done more service removing rust with a flap disc than actual grinding.)

Both seem to be good value for what they are.  And they're cheap because I already have the batteries.  If I wear them out, I'll replace with proper ones.


[1] It appeared to be a bog standard neodymium magnet (presumably) glued to the bottom of the (?)chuck, so I don't know what they expected to happen.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 16 April, 2021, 12:15:38 pm

I love my Makita. I don't use it all the time, I only use it every few months maybe, but it's fine. Like Kim, I have the Vacuum cleaner as well, which was a brilliant purchase, as it is so much less faff than getting the big one out the cupboard. Means I actually vaccum up after my bike has shed sand and mud over the living room floor again.

I have a white makita that was on offer from screwfix. i think it has a brushless motor, but I'm not sure, it works, and it's great. Life is too short for shit tools. Buy a makita.

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 16 April, 2021, 12:17:51 pm

<Snippety-Snip!>
 continuously swapping between pilot bit, clearance bit, countersink and driver on the current project is getting a bit tedious!
I have a couple of these (Well, not De Walt but, in terms of performance - identical)
https://tinyurl.com/s4nfptx3

It might not be obvs from the picture, but this will let you drill a pilot hole, counterbore it, countersink it and fasten the screw without ever having to loosen the chuck.
It's very fast in action.
I've been using them for about 30 years.

ETA - I've just placed an order for the De Walt one as the corners of the hex shaft which goes into the chuck on my one  are, after 30 year's use, somewhat rounded.
ETFA - This:
https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and-driver
Is closer to the one I have - it has the advantage of an allen key located in the hex shaft, for undoing the grub screw which retains the pilot drill bit. It has a further advantage that the screwdriver bits are magnetically retained (so easily swapped), and do not rely on a grub screw to keep them in place.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 16 April, 2021, 12:23:55 pm
Found a picture where you can see what's going on: https://www.s10supplies.co.uk/product/dewdt7601qz-dewalt-dt7601-8-sa-connector-with-holder-pozidriv-no-2/
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 16 April, 2021, 12:25:56 pm
Found a picture where you can see what's going on: https://www.s10supplies.co.uk/product/dewdt7601qz-dewalt-dt7601-8-sa-connector-with-holder-pozidriv-no-2/

So the thingy can be swapped end for end between drilling and screwing?

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 16 April, 2021, 12:26:54 pm
Found a picture where you can see what's going on: https://www.s10supplies.co.uk/product/dewdt7601qz-dewalt-dt7601-8-sa-connector-with-holder-pozidriv-no-2/
Thx Kim.


<Snip>
So the thingy can be swapped end for end between drilling and screwing?

J
That's it!
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Paul H on 16 April, 2021, 12:36:56 pm
There was a time when just about every tradesman had DeWalt/Makita/Hitachi depending on their trade.  Now they all seem to have whatever has been on offer from Screwfix, you can draw your own conclusion, I suspect the differences between them are not what they used to be.
My builder neighbour uses Bosch, apparently for battery interchangeability, not just Bosch's own but the choice from third parties.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Russell on 16 April, 2021, 12:38:01 pm
Bought my son a Bosch drill driver for Christmas last year.  Much impressed with it.  Only £70 but is very effective at drilling concrete, screwing etc.  Would get one for myself if I didn't have so many others!

https://www.diy.com/departments/bosch-power-4-all-18v-1-5ah-li-ion-cordless-combi-drill-psb-1800-li-2/3165140867764_BQ.prd (https://www.diy.com/departments/bosch-power-4-all-18v-1-5ah-li-ion-cordless-combi-drill-psb-1800-li-2/3165140867764_BQ.prd)
https://www.diy.com/departments/bosch-power-for-all-18v-1-5ah-li-ion-cordless-combi-drill-0-603-9d4-170/4053423225297_BQ.prd (https://www.diy.com/departments/bosch-power-for-all-18v-1-5ah-li-ion-cordless-combi-drill-0-603-9d4-170/4053423225297_BQ.prd)

B&Q claim that the second is brushless, if that's true then go for that one.

More details on an Amazon page

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-Cordless-UniversalImpact-Batteries-Carrying/dp/B07RT58VSF (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bosch-Cordless-UniversalImpact-Batteries-Carrying/dp/B07RT58VSF)
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Aunt Maud on 16 April, 2021, 06:22:04 pm
I have a Makita 18v cordless drill/driver and it will drive a 6" screw and bore  a 3/4 inch hole through 4" Southern yellow pine , which is hard, without a grumble. I can also use the batteries in my vibrating poker, which keeps the wife happy
(click to show/hide)
.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 16 April, 2021, 06:23:01 pm

I'm already fighting power tools being designed for bigger hands than mine,

MrsC likes the erbauer. Balance and handle size suit her fairly slender and arthritic hands.


a lot of screwfix own brand is fine. I bought a titan kango/SDS. It is at least as good as my neighbour's hilti. He struggled drilling holes in the blocks used for houses here. Mine went through it like hot knife through butter.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 17 April, 2021, 10:37:27 am
Found a picture where you can see what's going on: https://www.s10supplies.co.uk/product/dewdt7601qz-dewalt-dt7601-8-sa-connector-with-holder-pozidriv-no-2/
Thx Kim.


<Snip>
So the thingy can be swapped end for end between drilling and screwing?

J
That's it!

That does look like a useful thingy!

I've been looking around and it seems I'd be willing to go up to towards £200 for a drill+driver kit. Useful thingies may mean that's not necessary, but also £300 is out of my budget!

I'm seeing a few recommendations for Bosch online based on battery swappage potential. Currently I'm paying more attention to the specs of things, costs of replacement batteries, and also checking out what else is in the range.






Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 17 April, 2021, 12:37:40 pm
On the battery front, it appears that Anna Daptors are readily available for the popular systems, so no problem if you buy into Bosch for drills and drivers but decide the Makita hot-wax-drip unsightly hair remover[1] really is better specced.


[1] Cordless on account of an insufficiency of plug sockets in the scanning room (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caomtrH9Qs0).
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 17 April, 2021, 09:01:25 pm
Matabo are leading a battery compatibility group. Unfortunately its only European manufacturers who are taking part so far with the Japanese and Americans staying propitiatory. I can see the EU mandating this at some stage its the kind of thing they do.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 17 April, 2021, 10:16:01 pm
I probably wouldn't use it loads, but when I do it'll be proper timber constructions and metalwork.

Of all your thoughts, nikki, this one caught my eye. I once had a battery-powered drill and because I only used it occasionally I nearly always got caught with flat batteries (both of them, I had two). If your usage will be only occasional I wonder whether a corded drill will be the better choice. If you mean it gets regular light use then I don't envisage a problem.

She already covered that:

I'm already fighting power tools being designed for bigger hands than mine, and I find corded tools add extra weight and pull where I don't want it. I don't often have a power outlet near where I'm working either, so it's cordless for me.

Also, a mains-powered drill isn't in the same league when it comes to low-speed control; you can't really drive screws with them.

FWIW, I have a basic mains-powered hammer drill.  It's undeniably a win over my Makita 18V when it comes to masonry (which almost never happens, because landlords), but inferior in all other respects.  If I'm not using the Makita for drilling, it's usually because the drill press or Dremel is a better tool for the job.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 17 April, 2021, 10:30:34 pm
^ Mostly this.
I have an ancient corded Bosch, which rotates in only one direction, has a (fairly useless) speed control on the trigger, but you couldn't really drive screws with it. It is generally my go-to tool when it comes to making a lot of noise and holes in masonry.
The rest (most) of the time, the 18v Makita is pressed into service.
I've not encountered the battery/brick phenomenon and, frankly, I wish I hadn't heard about it.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 17 April, 2021, 10:32:09 pm

My 18v makita LXT drill has no issue drilling masonry...

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 17 April, 2021, 10:44:41 pm
Nor does mine.
But if it something that I'm going to be doing all day, I'd rather use the Bosch - which I tend to view as a bit sacrificial/expendable - as opposed to the Makita which comes through the till at five or six times that which the Bosch does.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 17 April, 2021, 11:20:20 pm
Nor does mine.
But if it something that I'm going to be doing all day, I'd rather use the Bosch - which I tend to view as a bit sacrificial/expendable - as opposed to the Makita which comes through the till at five or six times that which the Bosch does.

Either you paid a lot more than I did for the Makita, or your bosch was a tenner...

https://www.toolmax.nl/makita-dhp453rhe-18-v-li-ion-klopboormachine-in-koffer.html

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 17 April, 2021, 11:36:58 pm
Makita was just shy of £240.00 - incl; 2 x batteries, smart charger & case.
Bosch was around £40.00.
Exaggeration was there, albeit not in vast amounts.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 17 April, 2021, 11:43:11 pm
My 18v makita LXT drill has no issue drilling masonry...

Neither does mine, but the Black&Decker[1] mains powered cheapy is still slightly better at it, presumably due to sheer wattage.  At least, while it works - I'm under no illusions as to the relative build quality.

Which I'd use depends on what I have to hand, the availability of mains power, and whether I'm sticking a rawlplug in to hang a picture or bashing my way through the wall to run a cable.


[1] It was a present.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 17 April, 2021, 11:44:11 pm
Makita was just shy of £240.00 - incl; 2 x batteries, smart charger & case.
Bosch was around £40.00.
Exaggeration was there, albeit not in vast amounts.

Yes, but if you damage the drill unit, you don't need to replace the batteries, charger, and case...

So it's only about €70 you'd need to spend to replace it.

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 17 April, 2021, 11:51:57 pm
Good point.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Diver300 on 18 April, 2021, 07:45:16 am
My Bosch battery drill (Post no.4 in this thread) will drill 8 mm holes in brick of breeze block with no problems. It will also drive screws and is small enough for my wife and adult daughter to use.

Bigger holes in brick, or where real concrete is involved, and the beast of an SDS impact drill is needed. That is mains powered, and I almost always use it two handed. The SDS impact drills have an impact weight inside, with a mechanism to repeatedly launch that at the back of the drill bit. It is much bigger and much more effective on concrete than the hammer action of some drills. If the drill can have the rotation turned off while still hammering, in my experience it's got to be one of the impact types.

While battery impact drills exist, they are big, heavy and expensive, and probably terrible a driving screws. If you need to drill big holes in normal brick, or you need to drill concrete or the blue bricks, you can't do it with any everyday drill that will also drive screws.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 April, 2021, 09:22:32 am
My Bosch battery drill (Post no.4 in this thread) will drill 8 mm holes in brick of breeze block with no problems. It will also drive screws and is small enough for my wife and adult daughter to use.

Bigger holes in brick, or where real concrete is involved, and the beast of an SDS impact drill is needed. That is mains powered, and I almost always use it two handed. The SDS impact drills have an impact weight inside, with a mechanism to repeatedly launch that at the back of the drill bit. It is much bigger and much more effective on concrete than the hammer action of some drills. If the drill can have the rotation turned off while still hammering, in my experience it's got to be one of the impact types.

While battery impact drills exist, they are big, heavy and expensive, and probably terrible a driving screws. If you need to drill big holes in normal brick, or you need to drill concrete or the blue bricks, you can't do it with any everyday drill that will also drive screws.

Unless you are drilling concrete frequently, there's no point specing your main electric drill around it. The same way it's pointless to spec your every day electric car, round your once a year 1500km holiday drive. You aren't going to get away with the same drill you use to put a 3mm hole in wood, then follow it up with a wood screw, as you would for putting a 20mm diameter 200mm deep hole into solid concrete. For many of us, the holes in concrete are rare, and the easiest option in that case i to hire an SDS+ drill for the job, or maybe borrow one off a friend.

For everything else, a decent quality battery Makita will do the job just fine.

Lifes too short for shit tools.

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 18 April, 2021, 09:25:10 am
While battery impact drills exist, they are big, heavy and expensive, and probably terrible a driving screws. If you need to drill big holes in normal brick, or you need to drill concrete or the blue bricks, you can't do it with any everyday drill that will also drive screws.

Definitely. My friend with his own engineering company does a lot of drilling steel and fixing it on site into concrete, masonry and stone. In his workshop he has huge 3 phase machinery but for the site work he has a selection of battery Hilti drills and drivers. They are amazing things and will make a large and deep hole in anything (steel, concrete whatever) but your looking at £400 for a naked drill without battery and charger. Fine if its your job and you need it but for home use too expensive.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: phil653 on 18 April, 2021, 09:31:24 am
I was surprised to see tradespeople buying up the Parkside power tools in Lidl until a builder friend explained that they're good enough to use as worktools but cheap enough to consider disposable when they go to the Great Toolbox in the Sky.

I have a Parkside battery drill but its bit speed is slow compared to the ancient corded Black and Decker I got as a 30th birthday present aeons ago and is still going strong although the trigger control has a mind of its own.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: grams on 18 April, 2021, 11:55:29 am
I was surprised to see tradespeople buying up the Parkside power tools in Lidl until a builder friend explained that they're good enough to use as worktools but cheap enough to consider disposable when they go to Great Toolbox in the Sky.

The problem then is if Lidl don't have them in you're at the mercy of eBay price gougers selling them for double or triple the in-store price. Maybe they're cheap enough to buy spares.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Diver300 on 18 April, 2021, 02:01:07 pm
Unless you are drilling concrete frequently, there's no point specing your main electric drill around it. The same way it's pointless to spec your every day electric car, round your once a year 1500km holiday drive. You aren't going to get away with the same drill you use to put a 3mm hole in wood, then follow it up with a wood screw, as you would for putting a 20mm diameter 200mm deep hole into solid concrete. For many of us, the holes in concrete are rare, and the easiest option in that case i to hire an SDS+ drill for the job, or maybe borrow one off a friend.
I agree. I would just point out that cheap mains SDS drills are so little money that they make hiring less attractive.

I do own a mains SDS drill (see https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1241.msg2211214#msg2211214 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1241.msg2211214#msg2211214) where it got abused extensively) but it's currently on loan to son-in-law and I haven't used it myself for nearly a year.

The Bosch battery drill rarely goes a week without being used.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Russell on 18 April, 2021, 07:32:10 pm
Life's too short for shit tools.

J

Not sure if your comment is directed at this comment

My Bosch battery drill (Post no.4 in this thread) ...

are linked, but if you haven't used the Bosch drill you cannot possibly know how good it it is.  I have and it is certainly a very long way from being shit. I am a Makita user and I would happily buy the Bosch mentioned if I didn't already have that base covered.

For an occasional user as Nikki has described herself, it is ideal.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Diver300 on 18 April, 2021, 07:59:08 pm
Life's too short for shit tools.

J

Not sure if your comment is directed at this comment

My Bosch battery drill (Post no.4 in this thread) ...
I assumed that it was general agreement that a monster drill for big holes through real concrete will be shit for 5 mm holes in wood, simply due to the monster drill's size and weight.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 18 April, 2021, 09:27:31 pm
I had a look at the Bosch stuff, and decided the blue range was probably what I needed, rather than the green. ('Occasional use' as in it'll get caned for a few days during an installation build or an exhibition hang or a structure fabrication, but then it might be a few months of little or no use before The Next Big Thing.) That bumps prices up towards some of the other brands.

I think that at the intersection of having something with the specs I want, and with diminishing enthusiasm for spending more time pouring over the details, I've found a package for 2 x 2Ah batteries, and a brushless Dewalt with a decently-sized chuck size (a repeating issue with the Aldi drill) for £150. That and one of those useful doodads from upthread should sort me out.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 18 April, 2021, 09:38:00 pm
<Snippety-Snip> ......and one of those useful doodads from upthread should sort me out.
Let me know if you have any luck with that, and if so - where from.
I ordered one from Amazon from the link I posted above.
The updates got as far as 'Out for delivery' today, Sunday.
Then, all of a sudden, it went all 'There's been a terrible mistake, we cannot deliver your order, we'll be issuing a full refund in 5 to  7 working days.
If I go back to that Amazon link, it is now showing delivery as 'One to two months' - which is a bit pants as I cannot find anyone else selling them at that sort of price. Others are selling them, but for a significantly spendier sum.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 18 April, 2021, 09:54:14 pm
Oh dear!

I haven't looked for them yet, but will let you know if I spot something that looks good. What sort of price are you aiming for?
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Jurek on 18 April, 2021, 10:02:43 pm
Oh dear!

I haven't looked for them yet, but will let you know if I spot something that looks good. What sort of price are you aiming for?
All the others I've seen are nudging towards thirty quid.
As I have two which are similar and still serviceable, my impetus for a new one (yes, yes, yes - I know its a new tool, and that I'm letting the side down) is somewhat quenched.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Neil C on 18 April, 2021, 10:44:08 pm
FFX have the same one Jurek linked to for "estimated delivery by 28th April" at £18.99
https://www.ffx.co.uk/Product/Get/Dewalt-Dt7601-Xj-5035048052372-8-Sa-Connector-With-Holder--Pozidriv-No.2

They also have a set with four different size drills for £25.90
https://www.ffx.co.uk/product/Get/Dewalt-Dt7612-Xj-5035048031810-Quick-Change-Accessory-Set
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Valiant on 20 April, 2021, 04:35:57 am
A while back I purchased the Makita 18v Brushless Drill and Impact driver set with 5ah batteries for neigh on £300. No regrets really. I actually I do have one, I should/will purchase a 2ah battery. The 5ah last forever but are also quite heavy and if I'm up a ladder, I'd much prefer a 2ah stuck up its rear. Speed control is brilliant and I have dropped my drill off the top of a ladder and seem seems to function as new with no visible damage.

It replaced my 18v DeWalt XRP nimh drill which was also a great unit at the time but the makita DHP485 does outclass in every way.

I have the Erbauer 18v Impact driver and that is a brilliant piece of kit, the grey/black before they went to blue. If the drill is as good I imagine for the home user it'll be ok.

Thing is though, after many years of bodging it, I'm now an ardent fan of using the right tool for the job. My mains hammer drills have been handing off, having been replaced by a chunky Titan 5kg SDS+ unit, which can drill, hammer drill and hammer. If the Makita can't do it easily, then I bring that out and it chews through anything like butter. I am in love with the palmsize Makita baby SDS though and it's like to by my next purchase as I can so it being super handy when I'm working at heights, or even cycling to jobs.

If you do get a Makita, register it on their site for extended warranty. My 9yo SP6000 Rail Saw was picked up, serviced and returned for free within 10 days. And thats why I like Makita.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: nikki on 20 April, 2021, 01:34:19 pm
FFX have the same one Jurek linked to for "estimated delivery by 28th April" at £18.99
https://www.ffx.co.uk/Product/Get/Dewalt-Dt7601-Xj-5035048052372-8-Sa-Connector-With-Holder--Pozidriv-No.2

They also have a set with four different size drills for £25.90
https://www.ffx.co.uk/product/Get/Dewalt-Dt7612-Xj-5035048031810-Quick-Change-Accessory-Set

Thanks Neil.

I'm wondering if I might have spotted one in the art workshops without realising what it was - I shall have to investigate next time I'm in.

The 5ah last forever but are also quite heavy and if I'm up a ladder, I'd much prefer a 2ah stuck up its rear.

That was pretty much my reasoning (although budget was a big factor too!). My experience with 1.5Ah batteries is they stop about half an hour before I'm ready to!

Anyway, purchase made. Thanks all - I learned a lot!
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 20 April, 2021, 01:45:56 pm
The 5ah last forever but are also quite heavy and if I'm up a ladder, I'd much prefer a 2ah stuck up its rear.

That was pretty much my reasoning (although budget was a big factor too!). My experience with 1.5Ah batteries is they stop about half an hour before I'm ready to!

I reckon that for normal handheld power tool use[1] I'd much rather have two smaller batteries than one big one: Not just the weight, but it means one can be charging while the other is in use.  3Ah seems to be the sweet spot, as it lasts for the amount of sanding/grinding I'm likely to want to do in one go without a break.

Last time I looked, the price per amp-hour went up in the higher capacity batteries, too.


[1] Sure, if you're running a floodlight or lawnmower or something, a bigger battery is probably more convenient.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Valiant on 20 April, 2021, 02:55:08 pm
I've been doing a lot of work offsite without mains hence the 5ah seemed like a good idea.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Ashaman42 on 20 April, 2021, 03:19:58 pm
I got an Erbauer drill with two 5aH batteries because at the time it was cheaper than the pack with two 4aH.

And recently got both the bare circular saw and jigsaw.

I think the batteries are both still on their first charge and I've had them a wee while albeit not loads of use.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: TimO on 25 August, 2021, 01:18:35 pm
I see Lidl has some DIY tools, including a drill, going on sale this weekend.

https://www.lidl.co.uk/c/diy/c2014/w2

Whilst the drill (https://www.lidl.co.uk/p/diy/parkside-20v-cordless-drill-bare-unit/p45107) seems reasonable at £19.99, once you add a 2Ah battery and charger for another £19.99, that's a minimum of £39.98 which isn't too bad, but isn't the dramatic bargain it may appear at first.

2Ah batteries at £12.99 and 4Ah batteries at £24.99 seems to favour buying several 2Ah ones rather than the 4Ah. The slight premium cost is probably worth the ability of being able to charge a battery whilst using another and the lower weight.

You can fairly easily find rechargeable drills on Amazon (and elsewhere) for a similar price, albeit extra batteries and other tools that use the same battery probably aren't as easily available.

There are a few other Lidl tools which use the same battery being sold at the same time; orbital sander, pressure washer, pruning saw and sabre saw, but nothing too exceptional.

The drill seems reasonable, and comes with a case and handful of bits (probably quite low quality), but I'm not a drill connoisseur and not really qualified to comment much upon the specifications.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 25 August, 2021, 02:51:55 pm
2Ah batteries at £12.99 and 4Ah batteries at £24.99 seems to favour buying several 2Ah ones rather than the 4Ah. The slight premium cost is probably worth the ability of being able to charge a battery whilst using another and the lower weight.

This is my take on tool batteries, too.  There's a lot to be said for light weight, especially with something like a drill where you're likely to use it one-handed.  The calculus may be different if you're planning for a lot of off-grid use, where smaller batteries mean you have more batteries to faff with.


The thing that puts me off Aldi/Lidl tools is that you're unlikely to be able to buy replacements in future.  I had a cheap Aldi oscillating tool that was perfectly good but took some weird proprietary battery that was never seen again, and died after a couple of years of light use because it lacked any cell balancing.  Needless to say, the battery pack was glued shut.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 25 August, 2021, 03:08:53 pm
The Germans now have a standard for batteries for tools. You can swap batteries between tool manufacturers and you can even have 3rd party batteries. Brilliant.
Unfortunately so far mainly only German companies are signing up for this led by Metabo.

https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/

I doubt that Makita etc will sign up unless the EU force it as once you have propriotary batteries it locks you in to that brand.

Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: grams on 25 August, 2021, 09:07:57 pm
Compatible tools and batteries do seem to recur rather than being one-offs, and there are scalpers on EBay that usually have stock, though expect to pay a fair old premium.

There are 3D printed battery adapters now which make both the batteries and tools less of a lock-in.

The tools themselves seem to be of reasonable quality. I have an Aldi drill, multi tool and jigsaw and they all still work.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: quixoticgeek on 25 August, 2021, 09:42:21 pm
The Germans now have a standard for batteries for tools. You can swap batteries between tool manufacturers and you can even have 3rd party batteries. Brilliant.
Unfortunately so far mainly only German companies are signing up for this led by Metabo.

https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/

I doubt that Makita etc will sign up unless the EU force it as once you have propriotary batteries it locks you in to that brand.

Maybe time for a letter to Makita customer service... Maybe they'll make a CAS adaptor.

This evening we had an engineer here to fix the lift. He didn't want to go all the way down to get his drill, so I lent him mine, He was surprised by how well it went through the steel, even with the 15mm HSS drill bit.

J
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Kim on 25 August, 2021, 09:55:34 pm
Maybe time for a letter to Makita customer service... Maybe they'll make a CAS adaptor.

If they don't I'm sure some enterprising Chinese company will...
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: TimO on 03 September, 2021, 01:00:46 pm
CAS (https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/) seems like a very obvious idea, but whilst there are over 20 companies signed up to this at the moment, none of them seem to be dramatically big, although I do recognise a handful of the names.

I did also come across a guy on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/jacobadapters) who seemed to be making custom adapters between various brands of battery and devices. Although CAS wasn't explicitly named, there is a Metabo one, so possibly that's effectively a CAS compatible adapter.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: andrewc on 23 February, 2022, 07:26:16 pm

<Snippety-Snip!>
 continuously swapping between pilot bit, clearance bit, countersink and driver on the current project is getting a bit tedious!
I have a couple of these (Well, not De Walt but, in terms of performance - identical)
https://tinyurl.com/s4nfptx3 (https://tinyurl.com/s4nfptx3)

It might not be obvs from the picture, but this will let you drill a pilot hole, counterbore it, countersink it and fasten the screw without ever having to loosen the chuck.
It's very fast in action.
I've been using them for about 30 years.

ETA - I've just placed an order for the De Walt one as the corners of the hex shaft which goes into the chuck on my one  are, after 30 year's use, somewhat rounded.
ETFA - This:
https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and-driver (https://www.montanabrandtools.com/products/modular-drill-and-driver)
Is closer to the one I have - it has the advantage of an allen key located in the hex shaft, for undoing the grub screw which retains the pilot drill bit. It has a further advantage that the screwdriver bits are magnetically retained (so easily swapped), and do not rely on a grub screw to keep them in place.


Re-reading this while looking at drills I found a video showing the use of Jurek's widget.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5UPhINY88A
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: TimO on 05 July, 2022, 06:34:45 pm
... I did also come across a guy on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/jacobadapters) who seemed to be making custom adapters ...

I just checked that site; "The seller is away until Wed, 01 Jan, 2031". :o

So, that seems to be somewhat unhelpful for any future requirements. :(
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Paul on 06 July, 2022, 08:16:19 am
If that’s not a typo, then it’s a serious bowl of porridge!
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 06 July, 2022, 11:58:41 am
I have two (functioning) drills. A nice Cordless, that gets used for screw driving and drilling small holes. A large SDS plus drill/breaker that gets used for big holes in the stupidly-hard Lewis concrete blocks.

Need to drill holes for water waste pipe. So went shopping for a 40mm bit. Faster and cleaner holes than drilling lots of smaller holes.

First shock; a 40mm, long masonry bit is pricey. £70 with VAT pricey.
Second shock; they only come in SDS max fittings.

Bah. Can't justify another drill just for drilling holes now and then. So back to drilling lots of smaller holes.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 06 July, 2022, 01:12:46 pm
A 40mm core drill would be cheaper.

SDS core drill adaptor: £14.99

https://www.toolstation.com/diamond-core-drill-sds-adaptor-pack/p79014

40 mm core drill £4.99

https://www.toolstation.com/tct-core-drill/p59869

You can get hex adaptors instead of SDS as well.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 06 July, 2022, 01:20:21 pm
The reviews of that adapter are not promising!

Most local people say that core drills won't touch the local blocks. The main hire place won't hire them out anymore.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 06 July, 2022, 01:26:29 pm
The reviews of that adapter are not promising!

Most local people say that core drills won't touch the local blocks. The main hire place won't hire them out anymore.

Yes, does depend on your bricks etc. My last house has rock hard engineering bricks that blunted everything cheap.
This one has really soft blocks but a random stone outer which make drilling holes in external walls a bit of a lottery.
I did manage a big hole (14 cm from memory) using a hired SDS drill and diamond tipped core bit about 10 years ago for the extractor hood flue. Took ages to drill though.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Wombat on 08 July, 2022, 10:49:39 am
Yup, a decent quality (i.e. not cheap) diamond core drill should cope with pretty well anything.  I recently hired a big drill (i.e. much bigger than my SDS plus one, to drill a 162mm diameter hole through very hard bricks, and thence into middling blockwork.  I'd imagine a good 40mm core drill should be manageable by an SDS plus drill.  Mine says 28mm max for solid drills, and 50mm for core drills, and I've used it with ease for a 40mm TCT core drill in hard-ish bricks.  A TCT core drill takes a lot more effort than a diamond one, as its cutting away far more material.

On a related note, I checked the blurb on my disc cutter diamond blade, which insisted it could not be used for cutting granite.  What, those granite setts over there, that I cut in half with it last year?  I was forewarned about granite dust not being nice, so wore respirator and eye protection.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 08 July, 2022, 11:38:54 am
These aren't bricks, they are concrete blocks, made using the local Lewis Gneiss. It is unbelievably tough.

Even my (now broken) mains hammer drill would not do anything if the bit hit a chip of gneiss. For 7mm up I don't bother using anything other than my SDS plus breaker drill.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: BFC on 08 July, 2022, 11:53:38 am
Those blocks sound like they need a diamond core drill (used in non hammer mode) and a bit of water - the slurry does as much cutting as the drills surfaces. Resist temptation to turn on the hammer mode - that destroys the high spots of the diamond grit.

Similar problems with old concrete in parts of Norfolk/Suffolk/Essex where the shingle used is particularly hard.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: pcolbeck on 08 July, 2022, 02:06:47 pm
Those blocks sound like they need a diamond core drill (used in non hammer mode) and a bit of water - the slurry does as much cutting as the drills surfaces. Resist temptation to turn on the hammer mode - that destroys the high spots of the diamond grit.

And if you hire the diamond core drill they charge you if you bugger it up !
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Ham on 10 July, 2022, 11:45:33 am
Word Of Warning for using a cheap core drill/non-specialist drill to drill cores. You risk significant damage to yourself drilling a core without an adequate, functioning clutch.
Title: Re: Which next drill
Post by: Wombat on 10 July, 2022, 12:48:11 pm
A very good point indeed, Ham!  Yes, my hired one had a clutch, but using it up a ladder was still mildly hazardous, as the point where it suddenly got much twistier (tech term) just before the clutch said "enough!" was still enough to make things tricky.  I think a diamond core drill succeeds in some fearsomely tough media, where any sort of traditional metal or TCT drill may fail horribly.

As has been said before, when diamond core drilling, do NOT use hammer! Go at it gently, and withdraw to allow the crap to clear at intervals.