Can you/do you live without Windows?

[Beardy]

Not touched a windoze enabled machine since I retired. We have Mac OS on the desktop and laptop and iOS on tablets and phones.

At work, both of us used windoze although Dr Beardy used the imac at home for work stuff without any really issue. I think I could have done most of my job on a Mac, but it would have had to be exclusively for work and provided by them. Windoze was the only option. In earlier years, it would have been nigh on impossible to use a Mac, mainly due to document sharing being a pain in the arris

[ian]

Other than a brief spell of Win-curiosity when I boarded the current mothership, I've survived without Windows since XP. I still have flashbacks, of course, but regular 240v ECT keeps them at bay. In the early days of Mac (it wasn't a path of purposeful conversion, I saw a Macbook c2007 and thought that looks nicer than my Windows laptop, I was still baking my own desktop PCs at the time) I ran a Windows VM but I can't remember the last time I needed to do that. I think it's still XP.

Office365 is 99.9% compatible re formating etc. between Windows and Macs, my mothership are mostly Windows, and there's never a problem (Windows still doesn't know how to manage fonts, but at this stage, that's more nostalgia than a failing). There are still a few missing features (like really, a way to manage links and embedded objects, I mean really). You just have to accept that Powerpoint and Word are awful regardless. OK, I have a secret dungeonlove for Excel but then who doesn't?

[MikeFromLFE]

My needs are very simple.

Daily computing using a Chromebook including the Linux shell for a couple of applications.
Amateur radio (FT8 & browser) with Linux mint on an ancient laptop.

[mrcharly-YHT]

If you install the one drive app on Win10 you can then sync your cloud storage and hard drive storage
If you then install the desktop versions of the Office applications (I believe all personal licences have this) you effectivley have standard office desktop with cloud back up and viewing.
I find it handy because
a) I can also easily access the stuff via my phone
b) I can also easily access the stuff on my TV NUC
c) MS charge about the same as Google do for 1Tb of space and when it comes to apps Google utterly suck.

Biggest problem is i have all my photos on it as well as on my NAS, I am near 1Tb, MS insist on monthly payment for extra space, so dreading hitting that.
Also if your employer has the option, the equivalent of the home user version of office gives you a discount, which i found out about 2 weeks after I renewed last year but I now have the code on my account so it'll be cheaper next time.

One drive storage is really, really dangerous.

It doesn't apply the sync with any intelligence.

Say you have a document you started work on while connected to the cloud.
Later on, you carry on editing the document, while not connected.
Now connect.

Most of the time, One drive will overwrite the local file (i.e. the one last updated) with the file from the cloud storage. Overwriting your changes.

[Mr Larrington]

Office 364, anyone?

[tereck]

Ok, wells, I've got the few Windows progs I use/need (Garmin really) up and running under VirtualBox on my linux laptop (actually makes more sense on there too tbh, rather than firing up another machine for a single task) I've used Vbox before, maybe 4 years ago, and it seems to have come on some (their 'community' forum is still frightening however) I had to configure a little for USB, network connections and screen resolution but the solutions were all but a web search away.

So next step is to perhaps take the plunge and wipe the Win10 machine.... might think about that for a day or two though. I do have an old, old machine that could put Win2k on (the last version I was comfortable with) just in case just in case. I do like a good tinker I do.

[Polar Bear]

I have been musing over this topic and my thoughts come to this: because of some things that I do I cannot conceive not having at least one windows machine in the Bear-o-drome going forward.  The pace of tech and changes to our lives will certainly reduce a need for Windows specifically but may result in expenditure on tablets instead.  Couch surfing seems to be replacing "sit at a pc" surfing.  Laptops are just meh imo.

We have one pc which is fairly new and is Windows 11 compliant meaning that it might just get support for the next decade at which point the choices available will be so much more varied and interesting.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I have been musing over this topic and my thoughts come to this: because of some things that I do I cannot conceive not having at least one windows machine in the Bear-o-drome going forward.  The pace of tech and changes to our lives will certainly reduce a need for Windows specifically but may result in expenditure on tablets instead.  Couch surfing seems to be replacing "sit at a pc" surfing.  Laptops are just meh imo.

We have one pc which is fairly new and is Windows 11 compliant meaning that it might just get support for the next decade at which point the choices available will be so much more varied and interesting.

Can't agree with you there.

In my last two places of work, very very few people used a 'desktop PC'. Instead, they had laptops and docking stations.

A properly specced machine doesn't need upgrading, or replacing, for multiple years now. The 2-yearly turnover of 'new software, have to upgrade PC' just isn't there anymore.

[rogerzilla]

I need it to drive a film scanner and to update two satnavs.  Otherwise, I never use it at home.

[Kim]

I have been musing over this topic and my thoughts come to this: because of some things that I do I cannot conceive not having at least one windows machine in the Bear-o-drome going forward.  The pace of tech and changes to our lives will certainly reduce a need for Windows specifically but may result in expenditure on tablets instead.  Couch surfing seems to be replacing "sit at a pc" surfing.  Laptops are just meh imo.

We have one pc which is fairly new and is Windows 11 compliant meaning that it might just get support for the next decade at which point the choices available will be so much more varied and interesting.

Can't agree with you there.

In my last two places of work, very very few people used a 'desktop PC'. Instead, they had laptops and docking stations.

This is clearly the way things now are, but I'm of the mind that a laptop used as a desktop (ie. with extra monitors and input devices) is basically a desktop, and the main thing driving the demise of proper desktops for home use isn't so much portability as people not having room for desks any more.

I know some younger people (who by this stage have never known anything different - see above) live on laptops, but I find trying to get anything done with a single screen and trackpad is an exercise in frustration.  If portability is the thing, then I prefer some sort of fondleslab - they're perfectly capable of being a network client or (with a keyboard) note-taking device, with obvious battery and value/ruggedness advantages.

[Mr Larrington]

I don’t know whether Professor Larrington actually has a desktop – I suspect not – but then as an academic she's firmly embedded in the FruitCo multiverse.  She did just get a new! SHINY!! MacBook which seems not to play nicely with the Internets at Fort Larrington, which is a bit of a headscratcher as Speedtest showed 250+ mega-wossnames/s download speed.  It really shouldn’t take thirty seconds to open a web page.

[phantasmagoriana]

I'm 80% WFH (4 days at home, one in the office) and portability is very important - current workplace has docking stations on all desks, no desktop PCs at all.

Previous workplace was also hybrid, but they still had desktops in the office - I found it a PITA, because nothing ever seemed to synchronise properly. I like being able to go in to the office, plug in and go without having to faff about because things aren't quite set up the same.

[Polar Bear]

I accept that laptops work for some and that's great, but not for me.  The screens are too small, the keyboards are always a compromise, the touchpads are awful things - all in my personal experience.  I have tolerated laptops when I needed one for my work but as I no longer do ..

mllePB works from home and has two company laptops.  One stays connected to a 28 inch screen and uses a Logitech cordless keyboard and mouse.  It is in effect a defacto desktop. 

We have our own desktop machine that is similarly attached but has a hot swappable caddy for 2.5 inch drives and enough usb ports for connecting the likes of fitness trackers, scanners, smartphones (for data transfer mainly), webcams for Zooming, etc.  It works for us.

We do have desk space which makes having a proper desktop machine viable.  I like to be able to choose my screen and my input devices and I still enjoy the upgrade possibilities that a desktop gives me.

Horses for courses.

[Kim]

I'm 80% WFH (4 days at home, one in the office) and portability is very important - current workplace has docking stations on all desks, no desktop PCs at all.

Previous workplace was also hybrid, but they still had desktops in the office - I found it a PITA, because nothing ever seemed to synchronise properly. I like being able to go in to the office, plug in and go without having to faff about because things aren't quite set up the same.

Corporate IT seem to like them for similar reasons - if a laptop misbehaves, the user can bring it to them (and potentially swap it for a fresh one from the shelf), rather than having to send a PFY out to wrangle a desktop.  And less mucking about with profiles and synchronisation if each user is only using one machine.

[Polar Bear]

I have been musing over this topic and my thoughts come to this: because of some things that I do I cannot conceive not having at least one windows machine in the Bear-o-drome going forward.  The pace of tech and changes to our lives will certainly reduce a need for Windows specifically but may result in expenditure on tablets instead.  Couch surfing seems to be replacing "sit at a pc" surfing.  Laptops are just meh imo.

We have one pc which is fairly new and is Windows 11 compliant meaning that it might just get support for the next decade at which point the choices available will be so much more varied and interesting.

Can't agree with you there.

In my last two places of work, very very few people used a 'desktop PC'. Instead, they had laptops and docking stations.

This is clearly the way things now are, but I'm of the mind that a laptop used as a desktop (ie. with extra monitors and input devices) is basically a desktop, and the main thing driving the demise of proper desktops for home use isn't so much portability as people not having room for desks any more.

I know some younger people (who by this stage have never known anything different - see above) live on laptops, but I find trying to get anything done with a single screen and trackpad is an exercise in frustration.  If portability is the thing, then I prefer some sort of fondleslab - they're perfectly capable of being a network client or (with a keyboard) note-taking device, with obvious battery and value/ruggedness advantages.

Nods in agreement.

Slightly OT:  When my youngest son and his partner moved house recently they made having an adequately sized office for two proper workstations a priority.  Since March/April 2020 he has been at home 100% of the time and she now does 2 days a week in the workplace mainly due to her senior role.  She says that she could easily perform her job 100% from home but the company provides her expensive hybrid Mercedes and pays her a healthy whack so if her fellow senior execs want to meet in one place on a regular basis she'll ride the wave.

[DaveReading]

Not only could I not live without Windows, I couldn't get by without the DOS emulator that I've needed ever since W7 came along and could no longer run native DOS applications that I use almost daily.

[Mr Larrington]

This ^^^^.  I do a lot of command-line faffage and while it would certainly be possible to do similar with some variety of Weenix I'd have to (re)learn an awful lot of Stuffs.

[SteveC]

I have owned three Windows PCs over the years, but two of them were sufficiently long ago that they were never connected to the internet. MrsC acquired the third when she was made redundant and the company closed the site. 'Take anything you want.' (The chair I am sitting on at this very moment was another gain from there.) I think that must have been on line, but I never used it. MrsC was studying at the time so it was her machine mainly for that.

Other than that we have had one Mac Performa, three iMacs, four Mac laptops and a variety of phones and iPads, and a short lived Linux box (courtesy of Greenbank sometime OTP) which I used as a mail server for a time.
The last Windows machine was decommissioned nearly 20 years ago.

I used to spend some considerable time using the raw unix on the iMacs, but haven't needed to for ages as more of the functionality I used was provided in other ways.
Having spent time playing with DOS command lines for a previous job, I was determined never to have to do the same again! Hence the Macs.

So, the short answer is 'it's perfectly possible to survive with out a Windows machine'. Likewise, these days you can do everything you want on a Windows box. It's largely personal preference.

[Afasoas]

I would really like to live without Windows.
Sadly one of my hobbies seems to demand the occasional use of it.
And my $job demands constant use of it.

Primarily a Linux user on my own $dime.

[quixoticgeek]

I accept that laptops work for some and that's great, but not for me.  The screens are too small, the keyboards are always a compromise, the touchpads are awful things - all in my personal experience.  I have tolerated laptops when I needed one for my work but as I no longer do ..

That's ok. Real laptops come with nipples...

I never could get the hang of touch pads, and am very glad that I've been able to use a ThinkPad since the last millennium. The nipple is a much much nicer interface.

On my laptops I disable the touchpad in software. Something that adds to the confusion of anyone trying to use my machines. That and using evilwm as a window manager make my machines almost impossible for most people to use.

J

[Kim]

I accept that laptops work for some and that's great, but not for me.  The screens are too small, the keyboards are always a compromise, the touchpads are awful things - all in my personal experience.  I have tolerated laptops when I needed one for my work but as I no longer do ..

That's ok. Real laptops come with nipples...

I never could get the hang of touch pads, and am very glad that I've been able to use a ThinkPad since the last millennium. The nipple is a much much nicer interface.

You're both wrong and the trackball is the best pointing device for a laptop.  Shame they went out of fashion at around the time they worked out how to make Pentiums that could count.

On my laptops I disable the touchpad in software.

I don't quite go that far, though I disable tapclick with extreme prejudice.  This doesn't work well on modern touchpads that don't have physical mouseclick buttons.  (When I tried it on the Shiny! New! BHPC jam-filled Babbage-Engine it left me unable to right-click.)

The thing about touchpads is that they're so variable in their performance.  Unsurprisingly, the Mega-Global Fruit Co seem to be able to make touchpads that work properly, in an upside-down scrolling kind of way.  With other manufacturers, the frustration level varies from 'as good as Apple' to 'glitchy piece of crap', and seems largely unrelated to whether the machine is high or low end, or the brand's general reputation for quality.  I'm also suspicious that it may in fact be illegal to make a laptop with a functional touchpad and a nice keyboard.

[quixoticgeek]

I accept that laptops work for some and that's great, but not for me.  The screens are too small, the keyboards are always a compromise, the touchpads are awful things - all in my personal experience.  I have tolerated laptops when I needed one for my work but as I no longer do ..

That's ok. Real laptops come with nipples...

I never could get the hang of touch pads, and am very glad that I've been able to use a ThinkPad since the last millennium. The nipple is a much much nicer interface.

You're both wrong and the trackball is the best pointing device for a laptop.  Shame they went out of fashion at around the time they worked out how to make Pentiums that could count.

Isn't that cos they are so bulky? I'll choose a nipple over a trackball any day. I even use the nipple for PCB design, something which horrified several developers of the software I use.

On my laptops I disable the touchpad in software.

I don't quite go that far, though I disable tapclick with extreme prejudice.  This doesn't work well on modern touchpads that don't have physical mouseclick buttons.  (When I tried it on the Shiny! New! BHPC jam-filled Babbage-Engine it left me unable to right-click.)

The thing about touchpads is that they're so variable in their performance.  Unsurprisingly, the Mega-Global Fruit Co seem to be able to make touchpads that work properly, in an upside-down scrolling kind of way.  With other manufacturers, the frustration level varies from 'as good as Apple' to 'glitchy piece of crap', and seems largely unrelated to whether the machine is high or low end, or the brand's general reputation for quality.

I have to do support for a fleet of about 50 Scottish laptops[1] at work, and can never work out how to do selection of blocks of text. It's a right pain in the arse. I don't understand how people use touchpads. Or like touch pads. Some people even go so far as to have an external touch pad. As if the ergonomics of having to move your hands away from the home row aren't bad enough on a normal fondle pad...

It's like desktop environments where selection of text doesn't copy it, what sort of barbarian has time to remember to hit control c when they have copied some text? Just highlight, and middle click. Or where focus follows mouse isn't an option. Utter madness...


J

[1] you should never call it a MacBook in the office, but simply refer to it as the Scottish laptop...

[Kim]

I accept that laptops work for some and that's great, but not for me.  The screens are too small, the keyboards are always a compromise, the touchpads are awful things - all in my personal experience.  I have tolerated laptops when I needed one for my work but as I no longer do ..

That's ok. Real laptops come with nipples...

I never could get the hang of touch pads, and am very glad that I've been able to use a ThinkPad since the last millennium. The nipple is a much much nicer interface.

You're both wrong and the trackball is the best pointing device for a laptop.  Shame they went out of fashion at around the time they worked out how to make Pentiums that could count.

Isn't that cos they are so bulky? I'll choose a nipple over a trackball any day. I even use the nipple for PCB design, something which horrified several developers of the software I use.

I expect so.  But that's the argument they're using to remove headphone jacks from phones, and I'm perfectly willing to die on that hill.

I have to do support for a fleet of about 50 Scottish laptops[1] at work, and can never work out how to do selection of blocks of text.

Yes, I have similar issues, due to not having owned a personal laptop for a several of years, and therefore having missed most of the more recent conventions for touchpad gestures.

It's like desktop environments where selection of text doesn't copy it, what sort of barbarian has time to remember to hit control c when they have copied some text? Just highlight, and middle click. Or where focus follows mouse isn't an option. Utter madness...

With you there.  Although the only thing worse than having to press a key to copy is having two different clipboards to keep track of.

It's high time someone worked out how to use the ubiquitous webcams to impliment focus-follows-gaze.  It would solve so many problems (and likely create exciting new ones).

[mrcharly-YHT]

How do the nipple/pad people feel about laptops with touchscreens?

My old boss used to hate them on the basis that whenever he had meetings with HR people, they'd put their sticky fingers on his screen to manipulate stuff. He couldn't see a purpose to them.

I pointed out that they are better than a trackpad or nipple when using a laptop on a train - the one-to-one correlation between finger and movement make the train vibrations less of an issue.

[quixoticgeek]

How do the nipple/pad people feel about laptops with touchscreens?
[/Quite]

Kill it. Kill it with fire. Do not want finger marks all over my screen.

My old boss used to hate them on the basis that whenever he had meetings with HR people, they'd put their sticky fingers on his screen to manipulate stuff. He couldn't see a purpose to them.

I pointed out that they are better than a trackpad or nipple when using a laptop on a train - the one-to-one correlation between finger and movement make the train vibrations less of an issue.

Never had that problem with a nipple...

J