Author Topic: Project Handlebar (Read 27985 times)

nikki · « **Reply #125 on:** 12 May, 2021, 10:52:54 am »

Quote from: BrianI on 11 May, 2021, 05:05:13 pm

I do think it'll be money well spent if it means I can get out and enjoy cycling again, without complaints from my neck!

Definitely! My recent 'adventure commuter' build has had a significant positive effect on my cycling mojo, for sure!

...and you know the re-sale value if you change your mind is probably as good as it's ever going to be.

Please share some photos of the bar end shifters when they're in place and converted to thumb shifters. I'm getting hung up on aesthetics for a future build!

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #126 on:** 12 May, 2021, 10:54:48 am »

Bar-end shifters as thumb shifters? Wot is this madness?!! I guess there's some reason I missed earlier that you can't use actual thumb shifters as thumb shifters?

mzjo · « **Reply #127 on:** 12 May, 2021, 11:16:30 am »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 12 May, 2021, 10:54:48 am

Bar-end shifters as thumb shifters? Wot is this madness?!! I guess there's some reason I missed earlier that you can't use actual thumb shifters as thumb shifters?

The reason was up post - 9sp thumb shifters do not appear to exist (I don't think I've ever seen more than 6 - perhaps 7). My personal preference is for non-indexed ones. I also set up Cat's "racer" (flat bars with tt extensions) with these as bar-end shifters (on the extensions), not having splashed out on tt style bar ends (it was only a trial) and when I suggested that we go looking for the right sort of bar end shifter she said "No, don't bother, I like what I've got already"!

I think Brian might find when he gets his brackets that they were actually designed to turn down tube shifters into thumbies. I really don't know if they work with his bar ends (they wouldn't work with mine, which are much older Shimano, I think).

Kim · « **Reply #128 on:** 12 May, 2021, 11:54:52 am »

Quote from: mzjo on 12 May, 2021, 11:16:30 am

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 12 May, 2021, 10:54:48 am
Bar-end shifters as thumb shifters? Wot is this madness?!! I guess there's some reason I missed earlier that you can't use actual thumb shifters as thumb shifters?

The reason was up post - 9sp thumb shifters do not appear to exist (I don't think I've ever seen more than 6 - perhaps 7).

Only for exotica like Strumey-Archer hubs with weird pull ratios.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #129 on:** 12 May, 2021, 01:00:20 pm »

Hard to argue with non-existence! I guess even 9-speed is considered fairly passe now by the big manufacturers. But fairly 9-sp d/t shifters are still available, though probably take some searching, so that's always a route.

BrianI · « **Reply #130 on:** 12 May, 2021, 04:16:35 pm »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 12 May, 2021, 10:54:48 am

Bar-end shifters as thumb shifters? Wot is this madness?!! I guess there's some reason I missed earlier that you can't use actual thumb shifters as thumb shifters?

Couple of reasons, shortages of Shimano components, especially 9 speed shifters, and by using the my current bar ends converted to thumb shifters, means I don't need to replace my front mech.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/jtek-special-thumb-shifter-brackets-for-222-mm-bars-black/?sessionid=7ba1541800b7ed63764ad6558a662085791d47be

mzjo · « **Reply #131 on:** 12 May, 2021, 06:57:29 pm »

Quote from: BrianI on 12 May, 2021, 04:16:35 pm

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 12 May, 2021, 10:54:48 am
Bar-end shifters as thumb shifters? Wot is this madness?!! I guess there's some reason I missed earlier that you can't use actual thumb shifters as thumb shifters?

Couple of reasons, shortages of Shimano components, especially 9 speed shifters, and by using the my current bar ends converted to thumb shifters, means I don't need to replace my front mech.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/jtek-special-thumb-shifter-brackets-for-222-mm-bars-black/?sessionid=7ba1541800b7ed63764ad6558a662085791d47be

I stand corrected - indeed Dura Ace bar ends. There was a bracket to convert dt levers into thumbies (Paul's possibly?) but it's not these. The advantage of using a bar-end or dt shifter is that you are guaranteed enough cable pull for your mech, not always the case with the old friction thumbies.

BrianI · « **Reply #132 on:** 12 May, 2021, 09:08:10 pm »

Quote from: mzjo on 12 May, 2021, 06:57:29 pm

Quote from: BrianI on 12 May, 2021, 04:16:35 pm
Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 12 May, 2021, 10:54:48 am
Bar-end shifters as thumb shifters? Wot is this madness?!! I guess there's some reason I missed earlier that you can't use actual thumb shifters as thumb shifters?

Couple of reasons, shortages of Shimano components, especially 9 speed shifters, and by using the my current bar ends converted to thumb shifters, means I don't need to replace my front mech.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-spares/jtek-special-thumb-shifter-brackets-for-222-mm-bars-black/?sessionid=7ba1541800b7ed63764ad6558a662085791d47be

I stand corrected - indeed Dura Ace bar ends. There was a bracket to convert dt levers into thumbies (Paul's possibly?) but it's not these. The advantage of using a bar-end or dt shifter is that you are guaranteed enough cable pull for your mech, not always the case with the old friction thumbies.

These are Jteks version of the Paul's converters.

I should hopefully should have the parts for the weekend

BrianI · « **Reply #133 on:** 14 May, 2021, 09:28:25 pm »

Le sigh.

Stuff arrived yesterday.

Knees hit bars. Looks like I'd need a 200mm stem or something...

Question is, do I try an extra extra long stem, in an effort to get the butterfly bars working?

Or do I just cut my losses (£30 for the bars, £30 for the bar end adaptors, and £14 for the brake levers) and go back to drop bars?

Another option I do have is the on-one Mary bars I have on the MTB, as well as the old flat bars I kept when I changed the MTB over to the Mary bars...

Hmmm.

https://flic.kr/p/2kYscqU

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #134 on:** 14 May, 2021, 09:46:32 pm »

Flat bars need a longer top tube/ stem combination than drop bars because flat bars don’t extend forwards. Butterfly bars need even more length because they extend backwards.

Longer stems exist, from 135mm up to 180mm in this link.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems-1-18-ahead-oversized/?order=price+ascending

BrianI · « **Reply #135 on:** 14 May, 2021, 10:08:12 pm »

Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig on 14 May, 2021, 09:46:32 pm

Flat bars need a longer top tube/ stem combination than drop bars because flat bars don’t extend forwards. Butterfly bars need even more length because they extend backwards.

Longer stems exist, from 135mm up to 180mm in this link.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems-1-18-ahead-oversized/?order=price+ascending

So possibly I'm not really going to gain anything if I need an extra extra long stem...

Kinda wish I hadn't started this conversion now!

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #136 on:** 14 May, 2021, 10:17:27 pm »

There are alternative handlebars that extend forward, though they are out of fashion nowadays.
http://www.bikepro.com/products/handlebars/scott_combo.shtml

BrianI · « **Reply #137 on:** 14 May, 2021, 10:28:11 pm »

Quote from: LittleWheelsandBig on 14 May, 2021, 10:17:27 pm

There are alternative handlebars that extend forward, though they are out of fashion nowadays.
http://www.bikepro.com/products/handlebars/scott_combo.shtml

Something like flat bars and bar ends would be similar to those...

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #138 on:** 14 May, 2021, 10:38:06 pm »

Yes but you looked to be aiming at both a forward and rearward position. There aren’t many bar ends that allow that. https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebar-tape-grips/large-ergon-gp5-handlebar-grips-nexus-rohloff/ is one of the few.

nikki · « **Reply #139 on:** 14 May, 2021, 11:03:00 pm »

Quote from: BrianI on 14 May, 2021, 10:08:12 pm

So possibly I'm not really going to gain anything if I need an extra extra long stem...

Brian, can you tell us exactly what it is you're hoping to gain? IIRC you've only talked in general terms about being more comfortable...

How much further forward/up would the bars have to be to clear your knees?

I'd gone down to a 50mm stem to try and bring drop bars closer to me, but with the butterfly bars I went to something like 100 or 110 mm, which still gave me a closer hand position on the nearest part of the bars.

nikki · « **Reply #140 on:** 14 May, 2021, 11:04:27 pm »

Also, pictures of the thumb end shifters before you dismantle things, please!

mzjo · « **Reply #141 on:** 14 May, 2021, 11:18:11 pm »

The only bike that I have known with butterfly bars had them with the opening to the front (turned round or over from yours). I can't go back and see the bike, he had a stroke and had to stop riding. His frame was built to measure around the bars though so the stem length and top tube were matched to them. Would that help solve your problem?

BrianI · « **Reply #142 on:** 14 May, 2021, 11:34:23 pm »

Quote from: nikki on 14 May, 2021, 11:03:00 pm

Quote from: BrianI on 14 May, 2021, 10:08:12 pm

So possibly I'm not really going to gain anything if I need an extra extra long stem...

Brian, can you tell us exactly what it is you're hoping to gain? IIRC you've only talked in general terms about being more comfortable...

How much further forward/up would the bars have to be to clear your knees?

I'd gone down to a 50mm stem to try and bring drop bars closer to me, but with the butterfly bars I went to something like 100 or 110 mm, which still gave me a closer hand position on the nearest part of the bars.

Basically comfort on the bike with a more upright position. Using drop bars, I find I get a painful neck due to craning my neck, even if I am on the hoods. Riding in the drops is pretty much impossible now. I do have herniated discs at C5/C6 level.

I had hoped that the butterfly bars would have given me such a position.

nikki · « **Reply #143 on:** 15 May, 2021, 09:23:36 am »

Are the butterfly bars roughly at the height that your hoods would have been? If you move forward on the bars to a mid sort of reach, simulating a longer stem, does that give you that comfortable back position? (Just as a check, not a long term thing.)
I'm wondering if you also need to come up with a stem to get a more upright position?

You could also partially resolve the problem with a differently curved set of bars that don't have such a big distance between the clamping point and the main grip position (which looks kind of huge compared to mine!)

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #144 on:** 15 May, 2021, 09:29:27 am »

Your butterfly bars put your hands close to your knees. There are a million bar shapes that don’t do that but will still fit your brake and gear levers and let you sit more upright and provide multiple hand positions.
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBNIB355AAF/nitto-b355aaf-handlebar
https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HBNIB347/nitto-b347-dove-handlebar

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #145 on:** 15 May, 2021, 09:39:09 am »

Quote from: mzjo on 14 May, 2021, 11:18:11 pm

The only bike that I have known with butterfly bars had them with the opening to the front (turned round or over from yours). I can't go back and see the bike, he had a stroke and had to stop riding. His frame was built to measure around the bars though so the stem length and top tube were matched to them. Would that help solve your problem?

This was my thought. I'm not actually sure which way round is "standard" (if indeed there is a standard) but if you had theme the other way round, you'd still have a bit of backward extension.

Either that or, as LWaB suggests, some variant on North Road bars. You could put your thumbies on those too and probably sell the butterfly bars at only a small loss.

nikki · « **Reply #146 on:** 15 May, 2021, 11:27:30 am »

I think because of the angle on the obvious grippy bit, you'd want to keep them this way around. If you flip them, that angle will have the effect of angling thumbs down relative to little fingers and splay your elbows out. I get this a tiny amount because my grip starts hitting the curve of the bars - it's not something I'd want to exaggerate more!

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #147 on:** 15 May, 2021, 11:38:17 am »

Clicking through the photostream, there's a photo with the bars the other way round. Did you try them like that? How did you get on?

I remember that when Mrs Cudzo had (technically still has but it's in a shed a thousand miles away) a bike with similar bars, they were definitely "loops forward" but with the brake and gear levers on the nearer (less extended) section. I also see that your knees aren't actually hitting the bars, they're hitting your arms, so maybe if you want that very upright position, you need to get your arms a little wider, like with the bars LWaB linked to?

BrianI · « **Reply #148 on:** 15 May, 2021, 01:54:40 pm »

To be honest, I think I'll stick with the drop bars on the Tourer, albiet with the comedy +35degree 110mm stem on it,as opposed to the 110mm +17 degree stem which was on previously.

Before I do any more mucking around with bars etc, I'll wait until I see what the final outcome is for my neck situation, then reassess my options then.

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #149 on:** 15 May, 2021, 03:32:41 pm »

Both my Moultons have long 35 degree stems to put the drop bars in the right place for me. I got past setting up a bike for somebody else’s visual appeal a long time ago. A bike is a tool for covering miles and creating good memories, so whatever works towards those aims is the right way to go.