Base training

[zigzag]

in isolation one minute test doesn't tell much, so it has to be taken from the three minute test, when there's enough time to reach the max hr.

[Pedal Castro]

in isolation one minute test doesn't tell much

It does, it tells you your maximum one minute power. What you mean is that it doesn't tell you much about your aerobic capacity which is true because a one minute all out effort is almost all anaerobic. Having read the Watttbike test protocol you linked to, the MMP seems to be an artificial construct that is somewhat less useful that doing a 20' FTP test.

We have IC7 Tomahawks at work which BC are supposedly going to replace their Watttbikes with,  however the inbuilt FTP test gives values that are far too high, mainly I suspect because the test protocol is inherently flawed being a ramp test.

[giropaul]

in isolation one minute test doesn't tell much

It does, it tells you your maximum one minute power. What you mean is that it doesn't tell you much about your aerobic capacity which is true because a one minute all out effort is almost all anaerobic. Having read the Watttbike test protocol you linked to, the MMP seems to be an artificial construct that is somewhat less useful that doing a 20' FTP test.

We have IC7 Tomahawks at work which BC are supposedly going to replace their Watttbikes with,  however the inbuilt FTP test gives values that are far too high, mainly I suspect because the test protocol is inherently flawed being a ramp test.

Where I do my Wattbiking we have tried several tests. Generally, the 3 minute test is the most useful and accurate in setting training zones. We have also tried the ramp test ( possibly better for some riders with lower power figures) and some other tests, but all end up as within a few % of the zones from the 3 minute test.
I see more point in using training zones than ftp. I know it all amounts to the same thing in the end, but it's easier to design a training programme using the different zones, rather than % of a figure.

[Ningishzidda]

in isolation one minute test doesn't tell much

It tells you if its worth going to a rollapaluza event.

[simonp]

First trainer session since Mille Pennines failure. Turned down FTP to 250W to reflect less training load since last test - did Gendarme which is 40x 30s:30r 120% FTP intervals in two blocks of 20. Was surprisingly easy. FTP might not have dropped so far, though maybe I just was some way off vo2max.

Will retest next week after Bewdley Regatta.

[LEE]

Currently on an 8 session Wattbike FTP improvement course.

Monday night was 4 x 6 minutes at 110% of FTP with 4 minutes recovery between (That doesn't include the 20 minute warm-up which are, to be frank.. fairly tough in themselves).

It's the session that has left me the most exhausted (and shaky) so far (Though I was thinking, "This seems fairly easy" after the first 2 minutes... silly..silly me.)

[simonp]

Indeed, those kind of workouts catch you out. Sounds like you've made excellent progress overall.

I did a base rowing workout. 40 minutes "UT2" but my HR climbed quite high. Was maintaining average power of around 162W so in power terms it's in the right sort of place.

Going to try to build on the fitness I got this year (got my best FTP score yet in May) over the winter with some base work.

[Chris S]

Did you find TrainerRoads training plans helpful, Simon?

[simonp]

Did you find TrainerRoads training plans helpful, Simon?

Yes, I found them very useful. I like the structure, the in-ride text generally is helpful, most of the workouts in the structured plans have this stuff. I haven't tried anyone else's to offer a comparison, but I'm very happy with it. I went into this spring with a higher FTP than I had before PBP last year, I felt that was a good result.

IIRC, your kit is compatible, and I still have 3 (I think) one month trial passes, if you want to check it out. Also their podcast is well worth a listen if you haven't checked it out already.

[rob]

I previously had some success with a generic training programme, but found this year more difficult to attain the gains that I thought might be there.   After a year of some great rides and some disappointing ones I have contacted a coach about next year.   I'll give it one good shot.

[Chris S]

IIRC, your kit is compatible, and I still have 3 (I think) one month trial passes, if you want to check it out. Also their podcast is well worth a listen if you haven't checked it out already.

Thanks! OK, I'll give it a go. It was a tossup between TrainerRoads and TrainingPeaks - but Joe Friel's training plans are eye-wateringly spendy.

[chrisbainbridge]

I mentioned elsewhere about getting a coach.  I took the plunge at the end of July.  In October/November last year my FTP was 60 and I was doing reasonably well with "training" which really consisted of commuting a lot (30-70km per day) and some use of sufferfest on a turbo.  I was ill in January and then never really recovered my form but went onto a LCHF diet and with increased endurance managed the Easter Arrow.  Went to switzerland and did a a FTP test (Rubber glove) which gave me a FTP of 210.  Broke my collar bone and did not touch a bike for 4 weeks.

I then decided that I loved my cycling and had ambitions to do more and better. Therefore I needed to train.  Knowing myself I need structure and accountability.  I also have not got time to do the research on what sort of training i needed.  On various recommendations I contacted Digdeep and have been working with a coach for 5 weeks.  I am really enjoying it and despite possibly cycling less than i would have done in time if I had just done it myself I can already see real gains.  Frankly i am amazed how much difference it has made.

Now I am sure this is not for everybody.  Most people can probably stick to a training plan off the internet and have the determination needed to self train.  I haven't and without the constant feedback and encouragement I would not have done such structured worthwhile training.

In another thread the question is asked can you get faster after 50?  On the basis of the last 5 weeks this over 50 year old certainly can.

[Chris S]

So, it's all about improving your FTP (apparently). Watts/Kg.

* looks up the seminal Andrew Coggan power chart *

Hmm... I appear to be in the middle of the "Untrained" band. Work to do 

[Pedal Castro]

Failed in my attempt to do an FTP test this morning. After last weekend's 12h I have just done a couple of recovery 30 commutes and planned my first turbo session today. Decided at the last moment to do the TrainerRoad FTP 20' test instead of my normal intervals as I thought I was reasonably rested and it made sense to do it now as I start my next block.

Unfortunately a combination of the pain in my knee and the fact that my FTP is less than it was and so the on screen power target was perhaps too aspirational meant that I packed halfway through.

Overall not a bad season though despite all the hiccoughs with PBs at all distances except 24h which I DNF'd to safe my knee for the 12h. Hope to do significantly better next year so about to get down to some SERIOUS training, and lose some SERIOUS weight!

[rob]

Failed in my attempt to do an FTP test this morning. After last weekend's 12h I have just done a couple of recovery 30 commutes and planned my first turbo session today. Decided at the last moment to do the TrainerRoad FTP 20' test instead of my normal intervals as I thought I was reasonably rested and it made sense to do it now as I start my next block.

Unfortunately a combination of the pain in my knee and the fact that my FTP is less than it was and so the on screen power target was perhaps too aspirational meant that I packed halfway through.

Overall not a bad season though despite all the hiccoughs with PBs at all distances except 24h which I DNF'd to safe my knee for the 12h. Hope to do significantly better next year so about to get down to some SERIOUS training, and lose some SERIOUS weight!

If it helps I can still feel the 12.   All I have done this week is commute 3 times.

[Chris S]

More inappropriately timed training here, too; my first (Free Trial: Thanks SimonP  ) TrainerRoad FTP session, two days after a hilly 100. Needless to say, it was lower than my previous measurement, though not by much. As my previous was using different software (shouldn't matter, but you never know) I think I'll keep today's new figure - hopefully I'll get Free Gains next time.

Liking the TrainerRoad experience - some of the in-workout prompts are amusing.

"Try to choke back the vomit. Or at least get someone to hold your hair."

[Samuel D]

I read a paper the other day that reviewed the training regimes of elite athletes across a range of endurance sports, and looked at changes to the program of elite and sub elite athletes. Some interesting extracts:

This is a long time ago (from page 1), but do you happen to remember which paper that was?

[Pedal Castro]

Struggled home last night after two consecutive 60 mile commutes, had to stop for ice cream with 10 miles to go! Minimising carb intake during the day is helping the weight loss effort though, average kCal deficit running at 1200/day since I started 8 days ago, just need to keep it up 'til Xmas. 

[Chris S]

Struggled home last night after two consecutive 60 mile commutes, had to stop for ice cream with 10 miles to go! Minimising carb intake during the day is helping the weight loss effort though, average kCal deficit running at 1200/day since I started 8 days ago, just need to keep it up 'til Xmas. 

That's a hell of a daily deficit. Not concerned about losing lean mass?

[simonp]

More inappropriately timed training here, too; my first (Free Trial: Thanks SimonP  ) TrainerRoad FTP session, two days after a hilly 100. Needless to say, it was lower than my previous measurement, though not by much. As my previous was using different software (shouldn't matter, but you never know) I think I'll keep today's new figure - hopefully I'll get Free Gains next time.

Liking the TrainerRoad experience - some of the in-workout prompts are amusing.

"Try to choke back the vomit. Or at least get someone to hold your hair."

Generally those prompts are very useful. Either for motivation in the tough workouts, for working on form in others, or for just breaking up the monotony of a 2h endurance effort.

[LMT]

Struggled home last night after two consecutive 60 mile commutes, had to stop for ice cream with 10 miles to go! Minimising carb intake during the day is helping the weight loss effort though, average kCal deficit running at 1200/day since I started 8 days ago, just need to keep it up 'til Xmas. 

You don't see a connection?

[simonp]

So after testing on Thursday then being away over the weekend, Sweet Spot Base I was launched again last night.

Because the 8 minute test was supposed to be Tuesday's workout, and I have DOMs from Monday circuit training, I opted for 45 minutes endurance.

If I can face it tonight, it's a 90 minute tempo intervals session. The DOMs is worse today, and I'm feeling tired, so I might pick something easier.

Currently not getting out on the water midweek with the rowing (due to earlier nights and lack of experienced coxes available) so am going to try to make sure I stick to the plan as much as possible.

[chrisbainbridge]

Really hurting today. 3 days hard sessions, 1 rest day then a manpower intervals session. Zone 2 tomorrow then power session on Friday. Rest Saturday tempo Sunday and then a rest week. I will need it

[rob]

Agreed terms and a rough programme with a coach today.

Work starts 1st Nov. 

After a long discussion we're going to work without power.   That gives me a grand more budget for blingy bits.

[simonp]

Good luck!