Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250202 times)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #450 on: 16 January, 2017, 06:37:07 pm »
I try to do the former.

Edit: what TrainerRoad advise themselves is that do 'quality' work inside - such as intervals. Workouts which are hours of steady riding can be done outside without changing the nature of the work too far.

Chad Timmerman who designs the plans says he cannot do the long steady workouts indoors - the most he can stand is about 2h.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #451 on: 16 January, 2017, 06:45:04 pm »
There isn't a way to upload work done outdoors. You can tick them off in the planner as done outdoors. They do plan to add the upload facility. This might make me consider dropping TrainingPeaks.

Pedal Castro

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Re: Base training
« Reply #452 on: 16 January, 2017, 07:06:56 pm »
How do people typically integrate TrainerRoad with real outdoor rides?

Do you go for one of the higher load training plans & replace some of the rides with outdoor rides? or do you go for a smaller load training plan & add in outdoor rides as you want?

I've seen the talk about TTS, do you approximate that for outdoor rides, or ignore outdoor rides?

I don't use the TR plans so it's easy to integrate TR rides with outdoor rides. My plan is on paper/spreadsheet and my ride data is stored in GoldenCheetah which can quite happily cope with all ride types. As most of my outdoor rides are sans power meter I use the HR based TRIMP rather than the power based TSS for monitoring training load.

Re: Base training
« Reply #453 on: 16 January, 2017, 08:08:40 pm »
Bad couple of days.  Sunday was supposed to be a turbo session which did not get done as we had friends with us and then today was supposed to be a long outside ride on a day off.  Then a couple of phone calls turned into 4 hours then i got stuck in a good book and the ride did not happen.

That is life.

Re: Base training
« Reply #454 on: 16 January, 2017, 08:19:05 pm »
Er, yeah.
Training peaks over the weekend gave me a TSS of (not a typo) 3348.7 for a 5km row based on my HR.

Then today the bloody Garmin told me I need 19 hours to recover from riding up Ormesby Bank on my commute home. Actually, that may be about right.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #455 on: 16 January, 2017, 08:56:25 pm »
Chiba - I've generally found TP to give high values but by those I mean 750TSS for a 200k based on hrTSS. That seems high. A water rowing session of 1h-90m giving around 50. Maybe that number is not so unrealistic.

I don't know how their formula works but if it's based on either HRmax or threshold HR are these set correctly in your profile.

Re: Base training
« Reply #456 on: 16 January, 2017, 09:07:57 pm »
How do people typically integrate TrainerRoad with real outdoor rides?

Do you go for one of the higher load training plans & replace some of the rides with outdoor rides? or do you go for a smaller load training plan & add in outdoor rides as you want?

I've seen the talk about TTS, do you approximate that for outdoor rides, or ignore outdoor rides?
I can't remember what training Peaks did, but I think it's the same - if I tell today's plan about an event, it cuts the intensity and volume right back, and puts in a short activation ride the day before.

Today's plan is estimating 630 for Sunday's 200 - I've only got two 18tss recovery rides and a brief 50tss activation ride to do and I'm done.

Don't know what to do with myself!

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #457 on: 17 January, 2017, 09:42:20 pm »
I'm back. Dropped FTP by 10W to account for a week off. Heavy legs from Saturday are gone. I'll skip Friday as riding a 200k on Saturday.

valkyrie

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Re: Base training
« Reply #458 on: 22 January, 2017, 12:45:02 pm »
My old Tacx iFlow died back in November and after a prolonged wait for delivery from Tredz I've finally got a new Tacx Flux. The Flux worked fine with the App on my iPad, but a few questions I hope somebody knows the answers to -

1. For a given wattage the Flux is much harder work than the iFlow. Am I right to assume that the Flux is likely to be the more accurate meter and I should just accept I'm not as powerful as I thought I was? I was quite surprised that the Flux had a calibration function but it doesn't seem to change much.
2. What's the best way to connect in an HR meter? My old HR chest straps don't work with the Flux, so I guess I need a Bluetooth chest strap to connect straight to the iPad. Is that right? And is there a "best buy" in bluetooth chest straps?
3. Cadence - much to my surprise the Flux gives a cadence value without having a direct measurement. Seems quite slow to respond and I'm wondering if I should also get a Bluetooth Cadence sensor? Would that work?
World Class Excuses for Piss-Poor Performances

offcumden

  • Oh, no!
Re: Base training
« Reply #459 on: 22 January, 2017, 04:38:06 pm »
? And is there a "best buy" in bluetooth chest straps?

I use a Decathlon belt with my KK smart app.  Works just fine and was £27.99 rather than £62.99 for the KK version.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/ant-bluetooth-smart-hrm-id_8334795.html   - Prices may have gone up a tad since then.

Quote
3. Cadence - much to my surprise the Flux gives a cadence value without having a direct measurement. Seems quite slow to respond and I'm wondering if I should also get a Bluetooth Cadence sensor? Would that work?

Likewise, the KK app cadence readings are not very accurate - although they seem to have improved with software tweaks.  I just use a cheap h/b computer to give me an accurate cadence reading.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #460 on: 22 January, 2017, 08:44:48 pm »
Still on target with new power bests for 10', 60' and 90' this weekend. Just another three weeks to go of the exclusively indoor diet then 12 days of hotel gyms (hopefully at least every third hotel may have one) for an adaption "week". After which I should be ready to go back on the road! :)

Re: Base training
« Reply #461 on: 23 January, 2017, 07:55:57 am »
I just bought the cheapest bluetooth HR strap on amazon.  Works perfectly.  Only thing they seem to scrimp on is the battery and I needed to replace it after about a month.

i think all the systems which use the force generation in the turbo to measure cadence are inaccurate.  If the bike is rocking because i am pushing a big gear then the cadence can be wildly out.  I invested in a decent cadence monitor as well.

Re: Base training
« Reply #462 on: 23 January, 2017, 02:52:16 pm »
weirdly great morning.  1 hour in watopia climbing that the antenna at which point 2 pallets of bagged horse manure arrived.  That was then moved up the incline of the drive and laid out in various places for 1:45 hours followed by another 1:55 in watopia.  Gives me a TSS for the morning of 350!

Now I cannot get my HR under 120!

And all done fasted apart from 3 cups of coffee.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #463 on: 23 January, 2017, 03:05:06 pm »
So I mostly completed last week on target, probably 50 TSS below.

That's ok.

I'm thinking I need to repeat the FTP test tomorrow to see where I really am.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #464 on: 23 January, 2017, 10:32:31 pm »
did a short test for pedaling efficiency on a wattbike today and as i understand it there is not much room for improvement, which is both good and bad (i.e. no quick wins here)

LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #465 on: 24 January, 2017, 01:05:28 pm »
did a short test for pedaling efficiency on a wattbike today and as i understand it there is not much room for improvement, which is both good and bad (i.e. no quick wins here)


Based on my own experience I'd have to agree, good job.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #466 on: 24 January, 2017, 08:44:34 pm »
New FTP 268. Up 2W since last test. Given I've had two separate weeks off and that was before Christmas I call that a win.

Ow, though. That hurt.

jiberjaber

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Re: Base training
« Reply #467 on: 24 January, 2017, 10:09:44 pm »
Today appears to be FTP day.... mine was down by 5W :(

Onward and upwards...
Regards,

Joergen

Chris S

Re: Base training
« Reply #468 on: 24 January, 2017, 10:11:45 pm »
I was supposed to do one, but it's incompatible with a 20km hill walk.

jiberjaber

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Re: Base training
« Reply #469 on: 24 January, 2017, 10:32:30 pm »
I left it all day and finally gave in around 18:00 - I blame it being 'at night' for the drop in performance lol

(Happy Birthday btw!)
Regards,

Joergen

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #470 on: 24 January, 2017, 11:51:12 pm »
Today appears to be FTP day.... mine was down by 5W :(

Onward and upwards...

So now the question:

 - did it drop because you are not training enough
 - or because you're training too much

Also if you were not very fresh, don't immediately assume you would not have done better on a better day.

I'm slightly scared of my increase as I'd been struggling a bit with FTP of 266 and dropped it to 255. Now the test says it' 268 so I might start to struggle again.  :-\

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #471 on: 25 January, 2017, 12:54:57 am »
And as if by magic http://bit.ly/2j2gutQ - versions of some plans are now available with the long rides replaced by shorter sweet spot alternatives.

jiberjaber

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Re: Base training
« Reply #472 on: 25 January, 2017, 09:18:19 am »
Today appears to be FTP day.... mine was down by 5W :(

Onward and upwards...

So now the question:

 - did it drop because you are not training enough
 - or because you're training too much

Also if you were not very fresh, don't immediately assume you would not have done better on a better day.

I'm slightly scared of my increase as I'd been struggling a bit with FTP of 266 and dropped it to 255. Now the test says it' 268 so I might start to struggle again.  :-\

Its probably a bit of a combo of a different time of day and a little bit of fatigue from Saturdays 200km

Last night test, FTP 231:


Previous, FTP 235:


I carried a lot of fatigue from the Rapha 500 over Xmas but thought I had mostly got over it



Interestingly I was initially disappointed to see only getting to a 'fitness level' of about 100 but looking at last years data  I am getting to where I was at the end of 2016 in a lot less time, so the training must pay off in some way.  What I don't necessarily have is the FTP data points (I didnt do much testing last year - and what testing I did do was a mix of protocols)



I'm still struggling with what to do where I have audax and training combining for a big TSS, at the moment I am just planning to bounce/pause the training plan sessions along few days and picking back up where I left off on the plan but I don't know how this works in real life?
Regards,

Joergen

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #473 on: 25 January, 2017, 09:51:00 am »
The plans are deliberately not a calendar. So you could for example do an easier week selecting workouts a la carte and they are not recorded as part of the plan. Then return to the plan once more recovered.

A 200k at the weekend is quite likely to still be weighing down a little.


LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #474 on: 25 January, 2017, 12:16:58 pm »
Today appears to be FTP day.... mine was down by 5W :(

Onward and upwards...

So now the question:

 - did it drop because you are not training enough
 - or because you're training too much

Also if you were not very fresh, don't immediately assume you would not have done better on a better day.

I'm slightly scared of my increase as I'd been struggling a bit with FTP of 266 and dropped it to 255. Now the test says it' 268 so I might start to struggle again.  :-\

This is training though no?

When my MMP on the Wattbike went from 410 to 433 to 466 watts over the course of 4 months, for sure it hurt for the first week then after as your body adapts it does get easier - this is essentially what training is.