Author Topic: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul  (Read 23370 times)

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« on: 09 November, 2008, 01:41:00 pm »
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7718279.stm

He thinks single speed cameras are 'unfair'.


Quote
Mr Hoon, who described himself as an "enthusiastic motorist", also confessed to the newspaper that he had been caught speeding in the past.

He said: "I was doing 42mph on a country road that at the time was a 30mph limit."

A few months later the council had raised the maximum speed limit on that road to 40mph.

Referring to it, Mr Hoon said:"I still have a sense of resentment."


 ::-)

Chris S

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #1 on: 09 November, 2008, 01:48:16 pm »
Erm... your quoting is quite selective isn't it?

He actually prefers the use of average speed cameras. Me too - their use has transformed the A14 over recent years.

He also suggests lowering the blood alcohol threshold and doubling fixed point penalties to six for >15mph infringements.

I thought it was quite a positive piece, regardless of whether you think he's a wazzock (I do).

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #2 on: 09 November, 2008, 01:57:20 pm »
I wasn't trying to misrepresent what he's saying, just being exasperated that he's spouting some of the usual speedophile nonsense.

I'd go along with a lot of the ideas in the article.

spindrift

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #3 on: 09 November, 2008, 02:00:12 pm »
The 6 points for being more than 15ph over the limit is a great idea, no more whinging that fines are a "stealth tax"!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #4 on: 09 November, 2008, 02:03:08 pm »
Everytime I hearsee the word speedophile I reach for my gun.

spindrift

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #5 on: 09 November, 2008, 02:13:20 pm »
Speeding drivers kill far more children than paedophiles.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #6 on: 09 November, 2008, 03:35:25 pm »
Go get your gun, Manotea, cause I think he's a speedophile, too.

There's some positive measures in there, but Hoon is a cretin.
Getting there...

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #7 on: 09 November, 2008, 04:31:10 pm »
In the article he gave an example, quoting from personal experience, why he along with many others, feel that 'single speed cameras' are unfair and not particularly effective, and advocated a range of other measures which (I believe) most people would fully support.

Still, lets not miss a chance for a bit of name calling, eh?

spindrift

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #8 on: 09 November, 2008, 04:33:37 pm »
No, in the article Hoon admitted being a criminal and then claimed he felt aggrieved that the roads were made safer after his offence.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #9 on: 09 November, 2008, 04:38:59 pm »
"Enthusiastic" is generally a euphemism for...er...hooning it about.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #10 on: 09 November, 2008, 04:52:54 pm »
No, in the article Hoon admitted being a criminal and then claimed he felt aggrieved that the roads were made safer after his offence.
You are joking, right?

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #11 on: 09 November, 2008, 04:55:33 pm »
Everytime I hearsee the word speedophile I reach for my gun.

Lucky we've got gun control, eh?   ;)
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

Tourist Tony

  • Supermassive mobile flesh-toned black hole
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #12 on: 09 November, 2008, 07:03:26 pm »
Elsewhere, they are linking to an Excess article headlined with a reference to speed cameras, and how they are not the "answer"
 In the article, they admit that speed cameras weren't actually discussed....
I have a problem. Manotea, with the idea of measures that "most people would fully support". Dangerous territory in law enforcement.

spindrift

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #13 on: 09 November, 2008, 07:45:31 pm »
No, in the article Hoon admitted being a criminal and then claimed he felt aggrieved that the roads were made safer after his offence.
You are joking, right?

Fraid not, he was clocked at 42 in a 30 and fined. When he learned the limit on that road was later reduced to 30 he felt "aggrieved" in his words.

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #14 on: 09 November, 2008, 07:51:30 pm »
Manotea said:
Quote
Everytime I see the word speedophile I reach for my gun

Do you do the same with 'oenophile'?

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #15 on: 09 November, 2008, 07:58:58 pm »
Well, the article discusses average speed cameras, cuts in drink-drive limits and higher fines for speeding drivers. Nothing too contentious here, surely?

And I'm not sure how spindrift inferred that the road was 'made safer" when it was reclassified from 30 to 40mph which was roughly the speed Hoon was doing previously.

Maybe Sprindrift agrees with Hoons judgement, and presumeably that of the relevant authority, that the road was more safely driven at a faster speed (or rather that the previously set speed was unreasonably low).

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #16 on: 09 November, 2008, 08:28:24 pm »
A car moving at 42mph has TWICE the kinetic energy of one at 30mph, which gives it TWICE the braking distance and at least twice the damage potential.
A little excess speed does not seem so trivial to me.

Jezza

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #17 on: 09 November, 2008, 09:30:51 pm »
And I'm not sure how spindrift inferred that the road was 'made safer" when it was reclassified from 30 to 40mph which was roughly the speed Hoon was doing previously.

Ah yes, roughly the same speed, but in fact 2mph over. Ergo Hoon is a criminal, and has no right to feel aggrieved.

At least I think that's what was said. I couldn't hear too well over the usual speedophobe bleating.   

  :P

simonp

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #18 on: 09 November, 2008, 09:48:25 pm »
Umm, does anyone think fixed speed cameras are the ideal solution?  Particularly when they are painted yellow - that was introduced to appease the motorist lobby; there wasn't any research into whether it would help matters or not.  The fact is, it wouldn't.  They only affect vehicle speeds for a short distance after the camera, because they're so easy to spot.  Research into visible vs stealthy cameras conducted in New Zealand showed an 11% better reduction in deaths with covert cameras.

Average speed cameras were introduced near here on the A14.  As ChrisS pointed out, they've made a huge difference.  Compared to the fixed cameras which they replaced, they've shown a large decrease in serious road accidents.  And they have made the road far easier to drive along if you are sticking to the limit since the spread of vehicle speeds has reduced dramatically.  It's better for the environment, it's safer, and it works.  Average speed cameras are the way forwards.

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #19 on: 09 November, 2008, 09:53:38 pm »
I love the thought of "popularity"

As soon as the average speed cameras start to identify speeding drivers they will become unpopular as well!

From the Southampton Daily Echo....

The emphases are mine - but aren't they the familiar bleating about fixed cameras?


Quote
CONTROVERSIAL speed cameras dubbed "yellow vultures" have been erected to pick off motorists going too quickly through roadworks due to start next weekend on a busy stretch of the M27.

Perched like birds of prey on limbs extending above the road, the cameras will catch any motorist whose average speed tops 50mph through a section of road widening works, starting on Saturday.

The Highways Agency claims that the cameras are needed for the safety of the workers.

However, motoring groups warn that they could make the road less safe and have branded them a nuisance at night.

The cameras will be in place for up to 15 months while the Highways Agency carries out a £36m project to ease congestion by building fourth lanes between junction three at Nursling and junction four at the M3.

It says that drivers can expect "slight delays" of up to ten minutes.

Motorists are already feeling the frustration of lengthy delays from a smaller £18m project to add climbing lanes between junctions 11 for Fareham and 12 for Portsmouth.

The Association of British Drivers says that while it does not object to speed limit enforcement, the "yellow vultures" could cause some drivers to overcompensate by slowing too much when approaching a second camera. It also feels that the cameras could distract drivers from the road by encouraging them to keep a constant eye on their speedometer.

A Highways Agency spokeswoman refused to say when the cameras would operate, or why "yellow vultures" would be used.

She said: "We use safety cameras, including average speed cameras, to enforce speed limits at roadworks where road speeds are lowered and drivers are likely to speed.

"Essentially the cameras are used to protect the workforce, motorists and keep traffic moving through the roadworks."

She added that the cameras had been installed and operated in accordance with Department for Transport rules and guidance from the safety camera partnership.

Roads bosses are optimistic that the major roadworks can be finished by Christmas.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #20 on: 09 November, 2008, 11:02:32 pm »
The problem is less with Hoon and his Civil Servant watered down stance, but more with Sub-Editors.

Indeed, if you pick through his words, he is actually for speed controls and greater penalties for transgressions. Unfortunately (as often happens with an inexperienced junior minister  ;)) some of his words can be misquoted or emphasised.


It is simpler than it looks.

spindrift

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #21 on: 10 November, 2008, 11:50:30 am »
And I'm not sure how spindrift inferred that the road was 'made safer" when it was reclassified from 30 to 40mph which was roughly the speed Hoon was doing previously.

Cos roads with lower speeds are safer. The higher the speed the more likely an accident and the more severe the injuries.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #22 on: 10 November, 2008, 11:57:35 am »
Maybe Sprindrift agrees with Hoons judgement, and presumeably that of the relevant authority, that the road was more safely driven at a faster speed (or rather that the previously set speed was unreasonably low).

Umm - the inference surely is that the optimum [1] tradeoff between convenience and safety was more likely to be at 40mph than 30. The road is less safe with higher speeds but that level of safety falls within the accepted carnage rate for public road use.

..d

[1] optimum for who, exactly?
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #23 on: 10 November, 2008, 12:08:49 pm »
The problem is less with Hoon and his Civil Servant watered down stance, but more with Sub-Editors.

Indeed, if you pick through his words, he is actually for speed controls and greater penalties for transgressions. Unfortunately (as often happens with an inexperienced junior minister  ;)) some of his words can be misquoted or emphasised.


But the Press Office at the Dep of Transport (or wherever he works now) should have picked this up prior to publication. I know our place insists on the right to see stuff prior to it being published to check for bias and innaccurate reporting.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Hoon backs speed camera overhaul
« Reply #24 on: 10 November, 2008, 12:26:26 pm »

[1] optimum for who, exactly?


Optimum is a political decision, methinks.
Maximum vehicle flow is achieved at around 18mph; this would be unpopular politically so compromises are made which place the comfort and convenience of the motorist above that of other 'lowly' road users.
When cost/benefit analysis is performed to justify massive road schemes, pedestrian time is not costed...