"filtering"

[Pingu]

So, filter where it is safe to do so.
Otherwise, hold back.
Doesn't sound too hard.

Quite, or should I say, "+1".

What's the point of cycling if you don't filter? May as well be a moton.

[Kim]

What's the point of cycling if you don't filter? May as well be a moton.

It's more fun and you avoid all that messy car business?

[Wendy]

I have no qualms about filtering on the outside or inside anywhere when I judge I can do it safely, and I do it a great deal, but I'm perfectly happy to stop and wait at real danger spots.

Too many of the cyclists I see in London just aren't prepared to even vary their speed, let alone stop and start.  It's partly ignorance, which we can do something about that through education.  More woryingly, the rest is down to a lack of self respect.

This.

p.s. don't you get marked down on  your motorcycling test if you don't filter when appropriate?

[Ham]

If you want to see the very worst on filtering, try the current Marylebone Road / Euston Road eastbound, with its confusion of lanes: bus, olympic, left & right turn. By the time you get to Kings X it is deeply shocking, why there are not more accidents is hard to understand, but I am grateful. My own techniques is to filter as and when I know it is safe - ie, no matter if the traffic starts or stops, I am safe, no pedestrians are crossing blind etc. When I can't I take the lane and chat to a cabbie or driver.

[JJ]

Filter where it's quick and safe. Otherwise not and never on a club run.  If the drivers don't like being passed they can get bikes.

[plum]

What's the point of cycling if you don't filter? May as well be a moton.

It's more fun and you avoid all that messy car business?

Where's the fun in sitting in a queue? It's bundling past the lined up cars and getting out of the junction first that makes it fun.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.

I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.

Because motorbikes are expected to overtake in the normal place, on the right; whereas bicycles are expected to spend all their time on the left except when turning right - and sometimes even then. This expectation is shared by car drivers, road planners and most cyclists; which doesn't make it necessarily safe or sensible.

[Domestique]

Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter 

[Jaded]

Are there really people who drive cars who do not speed?

[rower40]

Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter 

Yes.

Me.

You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.

So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.

[AndyK]

In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?

Fitness, price, flexibility, blah blah.

If you don't speed in town, what's the point of having a car?

Speeding is illegal, filtering stationary traffic isn't.

[Wendy]

Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter 

Yes.

Me.

You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.

So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.

That's not quite as logical as it might seem. Compare the energy, and relative danger, of a bicycle at 20mph being passed by a car at 30mph. Then do the same for a standard filtering situation, car doing 0mph and bicycle doing 5mph.

[John Henry]

You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.

So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.

That's not quite as logical as it might seem. Compare the energy, and relative danger, of a bicycle at 20mph being passed by a car at 30mph. Then do the same for a standard filtering situation, car doing 0mph and bicycle doing 5mph.

You're absolutely right - and in addition it's a question of control.

But rower40 has a point - I do worry that I spend half my life asking drivers nicely if they wouldn't mind giving me plenty of room when they overtake, and then when it suits me squeezing past their cars quite closely. I am concerned a bit about the signals this sends out. But not concerned enough to stop me filtering on occasion... 

[Wendy]

Plus cyclists can predict when they need to swerve/wobble, but drivers can't.

[Regulator]

Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.

I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.

Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.

[Domestique]

Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.

I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.

Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.

Thats just taxi's in Southend

Going back OT I am sure when I learnt to drive, 1981/2, I was taught to always leave room for cyclists to get past on the inside when stationary. But I see plenty of learner drivers pulled over to the left side of lane which seems wrong imo.
As a driver the inside is where I expect to see a cyclist, although you are checking everywhere. I always move as far to the right in the lane as possible. Maybe thats what living in mainland europe for a few years brings to the table.

[Regulator]

Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.

I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.

Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.

Thats just taxi's in Southend

And here.  Panther Cabs in particular...

Panther Cabs are Cambridge's answer to Addison Lee.

[Domestique]

Filtering is a perfectly acceptable technique on a motorcycle.
It's expected.

I can't see why it's precluded for bicycles.

I rarely see motorbikes filtering on the LHS.

Come to Cambridge... the PTW riders round here seem to think that the cycle lanes are there for them to filter in, and that the ASLs are there for their convenience.

Thats just taxi's in Southend

And here.  Panther Cabs in particular...

Panther Cabs are Cambridge's answer to Addison Lee.

I was going to add, AC Cars are the worst.
Andrews Taxi's, who got the contract at the airport, really do set a good standard though  Its just a pity they seem to be out numbered 5 to 1.

[Jaded]

In most big cities the point of cycling is to get through traffic faster than a car could.. If you don't filter what is the point of riding a bike?

Fitness, price, flexibility, blah blah.

If you don't speed in town, what's the point of having a car?

Speeding is illegal, filtering stationary traffic isn't.

This isn't just about 'filtering' stationary traffic, though is it.

[Domestique]

Are there really people who ride bicycles who do not filter 

Yes.

Me.

You remember that photo from the Highway Code, showing a car giving a bike almost the whole lane? That's how much separation I want from tonnes of metal no matter who's overtaking who.

So because motorists aren't going to pull out to let me overtake them on the inside, then I'll wait my place in the queue, or overtake on the outside, where I can give THEM that same clearance.

Is filtering stationary traffic on the left or the right the same thing?

I genuinely would rather not cycle if I didnt filter. It would, I believe, take me longer to get around by bicycle than by car 
Agreed it would be lovely to have that much space for every filter/overtake as per the HWC, but thats not realistically imo going to happen. 
Sorry, not being argumentative, I think its best if we agree to disagree.   

[Jaded]

A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314

e.g.

162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.

[AndyK]

A read of the Highway Code on overtaking, and then some reflection on how other people (not those who are proponents of filtering) might interpret could be useful.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314

e.g.

162
Before overtaking you should make sure ... there is a suitable gap in front of the road user you plan to overtake

163
only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

Anticipating the behaviour and reactions of others isn't about applying your own standards/expectations to them, it is about predicting their standards/expectations.

Where possible I filter on the right. Only when there is no room on the right, and it is safe to do so, do I filter on the left. For example in the following I first filter on the left - watching for peds or likely door openers - because there is no space on the right, then I take primary, then I carefully filter on the right:

http://youtu.be/Kkyi03i-WOw

I agree with Domestique, if you're not going to use the main advantage of a bicycle, then why bother? You might as well be in a car.

[zigzag]

i had a small incident yesterday in purley, relevant to this topic. four of us were going from brighton into london, i was at the back, about 30m behind from the third cyclist. there was a long queue of traffic, either moving slowly or stopped. when the cars were moving we were on the inside, going at similar speed around 20kph. when they stopped, slowed down to about 15kph. all of a sudden a car pulls out from a parking spot at the side of the road and i hit the wing mirror and off-side fender (no damage to anybody/-thing).
driver's story was: i was indicating to pull out and the bus (going the same direction) stopped to let me through. i started moving and there you (i.e. me) come from the inside the bus and hit my car! you all cyclists do that!
my story: i filter on the inside, slowed down to 15kph as the traffic stopped and the car pulls out right in front of me. i didn't see the indicators blinking as it was midday and the sun was shining from the back. she pulled out very quickly, probably as a "thanks" to a bus driver who stopped to let her go. she failed to see me as she only looked to a bus driver next to her and didn't look over her shoulder before pulling out. had she not pulled out so quickly, i'd manage to swerve or stop in time and avoid the contact.
While filtering can be done only when it is safe to do so, same applies to starting a manouvre in the vehicle - look in the mirror, over your shoulder(s) and proceed carefully.

[AndyK]

i had a small incident yesterday in purley, relevant to this topic. four of us were going from brighton into london, i was at the back, about 30m behind from the third cyclist. there was a long queue of traffic, either moving slowly or stopped. when the cars were moving we were on the inside, going at similar speed around 20kph. when they stopped, slowed down to about 15kph. all of a sudden a car pulls out from a parking spot at the side of the road and i hit the wing mirror and off-side fender (no damage to anybody/-thing).
driver's story was: i was indicating to pull out and the bus (going the same direction) stopped to let me through. i started moving and there you (i.e. me) come from the inside the bus and hit my car! you all cyclists do that!
my story: i filter on the inside, slowed down to 15kph as the traffic stopped and the car pulls out right in front of me. i didn't see the indicators blinking as it was midday and the sun was shining from the back. she pulled out very quickly, probably as a "thanks" to a bus driver who stopped to let her go. she failed to see me as she only looked to a bus driver next to her and didn't look over her shoulder before pulling out. had she not pulled out so quickly, i'd manage to swerve or stop in time and avoid the contact.
While filtering can be done only when it is safe to do so, same applies to starting a manouvre in the vehicle - look in the mirror, over your shoulder(s) and proceed carefully.

It's also a BMW, and BMW drivers are possibly the worst on the roads. I always do my best to give them a very wide berth.

[plum]

If I've read it right and it is true that you were undertaking a bus while there was a vehicle on your inside indicating to pull out then at best I'd make that 50/50. I want enough clearance passing vehicles indicating out towards me such that if they do something sudden then I can get out of their way without running into an oncoming vehicle; if I can't have it then I'd wait for the bus to pass and force a gap between it and whatever was behind.

Don't get me wrong, it was the drivers fault, should look for you first before moving, but we all know that they do this on a regular basis so you should really be trying to avoid putting yourself in that position. Being in the legal right isn't much use when you're stuck under a bus.

It's like riding in the door zone just because there's passing traffic, it's madness, make the cars wait till you're safely past.