Author Topic: To go tubeless or stay tubed. (Read 27311 times)

morbihan · « **Reply #100 on:** 23 January, 2021, 12:59:59 pm »

We go both ways in this house.
Primarily tubeless on the wider stuff. Thats a combination of 650b and 700cc wheel sets that are generally 44 and 48mm tires.
I also have a set of tubeless 30mm on a set of carbon rims.
The race bikes and round town hacks are all tubed.
The tubeless set ups are so much more comfortable. But then a good deal of that is the tire width and the fact that they are very supple casings and at lower pressure. TBH I pull a bit of a face (on the inside) when I ride the tubeless carbon wheels that have less supple casings after a few days on the really wide tires.
I top up the sealant from time to time and very rarely have any issues. Some sets have ridden 1000's of km with nothing more than a top up and the odd pump.... but heres the thing. Deep down inside there is a little voice nagging away
"What if something goes wrong! You won't be able to fix it"
And confession time.... Ive never had to put a tube in any of the tubeless set ups and all of the tubeless wheel sets were set up by my LBS.
I have fixed a couple of glass cuts with plugs from the outside. (we live in the heineken bottle throwing capital of the World and the road edges are littered with glass)
I'd had the odd mysterious random deflation that sealant and/or pumping has resolved. Recently on the carbon rims that are tubeless the valve started acting up and I was stumped. The LBS sorted it. If I was on an ultra race or out in the boonies I'd have been in a fix. That particular wheel/tire combination are a nightmare to unseat.
In conclusion. For the type of riding we do, the comfort of tubeless is too good to ignore but I will continue to live in fear of a tubeless failure that I can't sort somewhere remote.

Dominic · « **Reply #101 on:** 23 January, 2021, 01:15:03 pm »

Have been using tubeless since last October. i decided to try after reading things here and speaking to my LBS. Set them up myself, wheels already taped by Hunt, and used Hutchinson Fusion Storm 11. Really did have a great time with them, comfortable etc etc. However had two punctures, one on the way to work, pothole, sealed no problem, thought it was great. Second one on the way home, pothole again, (don’t ask) and although it sealed it would only keep a very low pressure. Not great for 90kgs +. Fixed tyre at home, managed to reseat tyre after a bit of faff, not as easy as initially if I am being honest, but got there with the help of soapy water.

Been out again probably 3rd time since above and another puncture again towards the side wall and again sealed at a low pressure and managed to get home. I am in the process of fixing tyre again but would not give up on them as ultimately I think they are a good idea and I can always put a tube in with tubeless, but when you run out of tubes on a ride with tubed, as I have, you are a bit stuffed.

Just a thought really and I am wondering if it is a tyre issue rather than anything else.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #102 on:** 23 January, 2021, 02:52:19 pm »

I've never had a sidewall cut on any tyre in nearly 40 years of regular riding. Rider weight and riding style might be an issue* But, of course a sidewall cut means tyre boot and tube regardless of tyre type.

*sound like I'm saying you are fat and can't ride

I'm 11st give or take 7lbs, and I ride like a God.** #bemoreflatus

**I'm very very careful and observant

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #103 on:** 23 January, 2021, 02:53:45 pm »

Quote from: Morbihan on 23 January, 2021, 12:59:59 pm

I will continue to live in fear of a tubeless failure that I can't sort somewhere remote.

That failure mode will be same regardless of tyre type. Just dont screw the valve on ridiculously tight, and dont keep retightening it...or carry mini pliers

Dominic · « **Reply #104 on:** 23 January, 2021, 03:28:30 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 23 January, 2021, 02:52:19 pm

*sound like I'm saying you are fat and can't ride #bemoreflatus

**I'm very very careful and observant

That’s okay I do feel particularly fat at the moment and the way I went through those potholes, after 40 years riding myself, I did wonder if I had any cycling skills at all:)

De Sisti · « **Reply #105 on:** 23 January, 2021, 03:30:30 pm »

Quote from: Dominic on 23 January, 2021, 01:15:03 pm

I am in the process of fixing tyre again but would not give up on them as ultimately I think they are a good idea and I can always put a tube in with tubeless, but when you run out of tubes on a ride with tubed, as I have, you are a bit stuffed.

You could try using a puncture repair kit?

Dominic · « **Reply #106 on:** 23 January, 2021, 04:14:33 pm »

Thanks, exactly what I have got

yoav · « **Reply #107 on:** 24 January, 2021, 11:06:37 am »

I thought you might be waiting, with baited breath, to find out how I got on? No? Well, I'll tell you anyway. The tyres arrived along with the rim tape, sealant, valves and as a bonus, an Airshot. I took off the old tyres, cleaned the rims, applied the new rim tape and mounted the tyres. The tyres made a very satisfying ping with the Airshot as the tyres seated on the rims. In with the recommended 60 ml of sealant, tyres pumped up to a healthy 50 psi and I went off for a ride, which was absolutely fine, comfortable and no grip issues that I could feel. I thought all was well until the following day when both tyres lost most of their pressure. I pumped them up again to 50, and as it was very icy yesterday, didn't go out. Today, they are down again. Not sure what is going on so I put the wheels in the bath to see if I could find a leak - I didn't find one leak, I found lots of leaks. Both tyres had tiny trails of bubbles coming from the sidewalls of the tyres, in multiple places around the tyres - these bubbles were much smaller than ones that you would see from a punctured tube. Not fast enough to deflate whilst riding but enough to flatten overnight. Now, is this normal? Are these tyres faulty? And why isn't the sealant sealing these holes which wouldn't have been caused by punctures. Examining the tyres and rims, and I couldn't see any sealant leaking out anywhere. So what is going on? Thanks for any advice.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #108 on:** 24 January, 2021, 11:35:13 am »

Were it me I'd take the wheels off, inflate to 90psi, and shake the wheels around (usually holding wheel level with the ground) to get the sealant all over methodically working my round the wheel. Then I'd leave them inflated at that pressure and monitor tomorrow.

citoyen · « **Reply #109 on:** 24 January, 2021, 11:36:51 am »

Quote from: yoav on 24 January, 2021, 11:06:37 am

The tyres made a very satisfying ping with the Airshot as the tyres seated on the rims.

Good to know. I'm thinking about getting one of these or similar to replace my busted Truflo Airstore pump.

Quote

I didn't find one leak, I found lots of leaks. Both tyres had tiny trails of bubbles coming from the sidewalls of the tyres, in multiple places around the tyres - these bubbles were much smaller than ones that you would see from a punctured tube. Not fast enough to deflate whilst riding but enough to flatten overnight. Now, is this normal? Are these tyres faulty? And why isn't the sealant sealing these holes which wouldn't have been caused by punctures. Examining the tyres and rims, and I couldn't see any sealant leaking out anywhere. So what is going on? Thanks for any advice.

Doesn't sound quite right to me. My experience of tubeless tyres is that the sidewalls shouldn't be porous. They might cure themselves sooner or later... Or they might not! HF's suggestion of upping the pressure sounds worth trying - it might help force the sealant into the holes.

What tyres are they? I know some tyres come in both tubeless and non-tubeless versions, so did you check carefully which version you were buying?

rafletcher · « **Reply #110 on:** 24 January, 2021, 11:52:46 am »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 24 January, 2021, 11:35:13 am

Were it me I'd take the wheels off, inflate to 90psi, and shake the wheels around (usually holding wheel level with the ground) to get the sealant all over methodically working my round the wheel. Then I'd leave them inflated at that pressure and monitor tomorrow.

Yep, that’s what I do too, plus “bounce” the over-inflated tyre on the ground whilst rotating it. And if they keep deflating, add more sealant.

Having said that, if I’ve had that sort of deflation issue it’s usually been at the bead. Initial over inflation is key IMO.

yoav · « **Reply #111 on:** 24 January, 2021, 12:14:50 pm »

Thanks, I'll give a try. The tyres are Schwalbe G-One Allround 700c x 35. Definitely tubeless tyres. Rating on the tyre is 45-70 psi. Will go for over-inflation and shake first. I'll have to go out and buy some more sealant tomorrow if that doesn't work and perhaps call the shop I bought them from. Porous side walls is new one on me too. I have video of the train of bubbles coming from the side walls. No sign of any sealant at the bead.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #112 on:** 24 January, 2021, 01:49:37 pm »

Ah! I misunderstood!!!

Its coming out of the sidewall, not the bead, in which case faulty tyre send back!!!

My friend had an identical issue with the same tyre a month or two back

hatler · « **Reply #113 on:** 24 January, 2021, 01:53:22 pm »

Blimey. Porous sidewall on a tubeless tyre.

Sounds like their QA team needs a bit of a boot.

jiberjaber · « **Reply #114 on:** 24 January, 2021, 03:20:39 pm »

I've had porous sidewalls on Panaracer - eventually sealed over time but left little bubbles on the outside of the wall... they weren't the best tyres tbf, wond my using gravelking's again tubeless.

I've gone through a lot of Schwalbe g-one's and never had the issue, sounds like a defective tyre, though odd for both to suffer.

Frank9755 · « **Reply #115 on:** 24 January, 2021, 03:36:29 pm »

Porous sidewalls not good.

I had some IRC tyres which were a bit like that. Used to need pumping up for every ride. I retired them prematurely. When I took them off I could see a grid pattern in the sealant inside the tyre which I assumed corresponded to where it was most porous.

morbihan · « **Reply #116 on:** 24 January, 2021, 05:45:45 pm »

Multiple pinhole leaks in side walls is common on RH tyres. I use the extra light casing so I think that exacerbates the issue with the thinner supple sidewalls.
They are a bit of a mare to initially seal up and its imperative to use a gummy sealant (orange endurance)
Lots of semaphore and wavy stuff with your newly seated tire helps to really slosh the sealant around.
One particularly tricky tire I left on its side overnight, leaky sidewall down.
Once set up correctly though, its floaty heaven so worth the initial faff.
Are the G ones thin walled.
I imagine that the tires are made in batches and vary somewhat too.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #117 on:** 24 January, 2021, 06:11:09 pm »

After ages with no flats, I got another one on todays training ride. That's two in about 700km. Which is very high for me.

I guess that's what I get for running summer tyres in January...

J

Lightning Phil · « **Reply #118 on:** 24 January, 2021, 06:19:28 pm »

From Schwalbe’s site

“Tubeless Easy tires are not completely airtight tubeless tires. You need the sealant to guarantee they are airtight. A sealant can do this more effectively than an impermeable butyl liner.

Real tubeless tires, like you may have had in the past, did, in theory, work without sealant. But they were much heavier and in practice most riders still utilized a sealant. In the end, it was only the sealant that made the system reliable enough for regular riding.

In addition, the combination of Tubeless Easy tires and Doc Blue ensures superior protection against punctures and the sealant has no negative effects on rolling resistant.”

If you have mtn bike UST that is fully airtight and can run without sealant. But the way tubeless has got lighter (and faster rolling) is to make them non airtight like tubeless easy, which necessitates putting enough sealant in to seal them.

G one all round are tubeless easy

Zed43 · « **Reply #119 on:** 24 January, 2021, 07:09:44 pm »

Quote from: quixoticgeek on 24 January, 2021, 06:11:09 pm

After ages with no flats, I got another one on todays training ride. That's two in about 700km. Which is very high for me.

How old is that tyre (in kilometers, not months) I very rarely have flats, when they happen it's often near the expected end-of-life (~ 7000km for Compass / RH extra light).

And I concur (sample size = 1) with Morbihan regarding Compass / RH extra light "tubeless ready": they're a pain in the ass to seal.

Anyway, it's no longer in my hands: bike A has classic box rims that are not TL compatible and bike B rides best with 38mm but those (from RH at least) are not available as tubeless ready.

Bolt · « **Reply #120 on:** 24 January, 2021, 10:38:18 pm »

also from the Scwhalbe website (my bold) and a good answer I think to the OPs original question:

"Is tubeless for everyone?

The advantages are most interesting for avid riders, looking for the maximum performance. The system is technically demanding and the standard for the optimum wheels is still developing. If you are just looking for a tire, that works trouble-free every day, Marathon Plus is the best choice. If you want the fastest tire with the best performance, there is no alternative to tubeless."

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #121 on:** 24 January, 2021, 10:55:43 pm »

Quote from: Zed43 on 24 January, 2021, 07:09:44 pm

How old is that tyre (in kilometers, not months) I very rarely have flats, when they happen it's often near the expected end-of-life (~ 7000km for Compass / RH extra light).

And I concur (sample size = 1) with Morbihan regarding Compass / RH extra light "tubeless ready": they're a pain in the ass to seal.

Anyway, it's no longer in my hands: bike A has classic box rims that are not TL compatible and bike B rides best with 38mm but those (from RH at least) are not available as tubeless ready.

Um. That's a good question. I got two sets which got swapped about a bit cos of winter tyres going on for the 2019/2020 winter. So it could be as little as a 3000km, could be closer to 5000km... The TWI markers haven't disappeared yet maybe 0.5mm of depth?

The flat on xmas eve was the front tyre, today's was the rear.

J

yoav · « **Reply #122 on:** 25 January, 2021, 02:15:08 pm »

Further update: after doing what was suggested above, blowing them up to 90 psi, then giving them a good sloshing about before leaving them overnight seems to have done the trick in that they have only lost a few psi overnight - 85psi. These are Schwalbe tubeless easy tyres with relatively flexible sidewalls - they came folded up - so I guess that the tiny leaks may be normal.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #123 on:** 25 January, 2021, 02:21:31 pm »

Good news.Keep an eye on the tyre pressures. Worth checking every 3 days or so

TimC · « **Reply #124 on:** 25 January, 2021, 03:13:31 pm »

I have tubeless 37mm G Ones on Mason-Hunt 4 Season rims. I keep them at 50-55 psi, and they'll lose 5-8 psi in a week or so. Your story reminds me I need to refiill them with fluid...