Author Topic: Cross Training: Running  (Read 432620 times)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2175 on: 13 May, 2020, 12:00:48 pm »
I've decided to give the Garmin Coach function on my watch a go. First (really short!) "benchmark run" this morning; next up is "stride repeats" on Friday. This appears to be 20s sprints, which I am not looking forward to one bit as I am the world's worst sprinter. :sick: (Admittedly, my "sprint" is probably more of a jog to most people!)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2176 on: 13 May, 2020, 12:28:12 pm »
1 min off my post-ankle recovery 5K PB.

The cooler air helped and it was the first run for a while that felt 'nice' despite pushing it a bit harder than normal for the second half.

(Still 4 minutes to knock off to get back to my real 5k PB, but that's a longer term goal that'll come with weight loss.)
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2177 on: 13 May, 2020, 02:46:55 pm »
1 min off my post-ankle recovery 5K PB.

The cooler air helped and it was the first run for a while that felt 'nice' despite pushing it a bit harder than normal for the second half.

(Still 4 minutes to knock off to get back to my real 5k PB, but that's a longer term goal that'll come with weight loss.)

Good work!

I don’t expect to ever get back, or even near, to my real 5k PB. I think I’d have to step up to marathon or down to 200m or less to set a real PB now;) Sad, but true.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2178 on: 13 May, 2020, 03:39:55 pm »
I'm aiming to take just over 4 minutes off my PB.

Currently 28:26
PB: 24:24
Aim: 19:59

Going from 98kg (currently 93kg) to under 76kg is the main thing that will help with this.

That current PB was only set a few years ago, it's not like I'm remembering it from 20 years ago where I weighed a lot less and hadn't had years of drinking and smoking to slow me down.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2179 on: 13 May, 2020, 04:11:50 pm »
Well, my suspected left hamstring twinge has turned into a full-blown tear  >:(

I waited 6 weeks from the initial incident (self-identified as a grade 1 tear after an interval sprint) with only cycle trainer stuff in the interim (no pain at all), then went out for a tentative run.  It was absolutely fine and pain-free until I stumbled and twisted my left ankle on an uneven surface.  My knee buckled and there was an intense pain shooting right up the back of the thigh.

I couldn't even walk a few paces so had to call a friend to give me a lift home. 6 days later and it isn't much improved.  Walking more than a few steps is too painful and cycling is totally out (I've tried  ::-)).

The only good news is that within 2 days of ringing my GP I've been booked in for an ultrasound scan next week and a consultation with a sports physiotherapist thereafter.  Bloody amazing service under the circumstances.

Trust me to bork myself just as the regs on outdoor exercise are easing  ::-) ;D
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2180 on: 14 May, 2020, 01:07:03 pm »
I'm aiming to take just over 4 minutes off my PB.

Currently 28:26
PB: 24:24
Aim: 19:59

Going from 98kg (currently 93kg) to under 76kg is the main thing that will help with this.

That current PB was only set a few years ago, it's not like I'm remembering it from 20 years ago where I weighed a lot less and hadn't had years of drinking and smoking to slow me down.

Good stuff. Getting from 98 to 76kg should give you somewhere between 40 seconds and a minute per mile, so very helpful. I always tell myself that the work I do while heavier mud count double to eventual fitness too!

Watching with interest.

My PB was set between 25 and 30 years ago when I was a lot lighter.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2181 on: 14 May, 2020, 01:28:06 pm »
I'm aiming to take just over 4 minutes off my PB.

Currently 28:26
PB: 24:24
Aim: 19:59

Going from 98kg (currently 93kg) to under 76kg is the main thing that will help with this.

That current PB was only set a few years ago, it's not like I'm remembering it from 20 years ago where I weighed a lot less and hadn't had years of drinking and smoking to slow me down.

Good stuff. Getting from 98 to 76kg should give you somewhere between 40 seconds and a minute per mile, so very helpful. I always tell myself that the work I do while heavier mud count double to eventual fitness too!

That 24m24 was when I was 85.8kg, that was the highest VDOT I've seen. Plugging that into the Running calculator on fellrnr.com and (ab)using the "6.2 Weight Adjusted Race Times" sections I get:-

86kg 24m24 = VDOT 39.4
  prediction at 81kg = 23m13

Plugging that in again (I know, it's a big 'what if' and extrapolation but...)

81kg 23m13 = VDOT 41.8
  prediction at 76kg = 22m00

76kg 25m50 = VDOT 44.6
  prediction at 71kg = 20m48

So sub 20m is not completely out of the question. I reckon I can get back to mid 24m 5k before I get down to 86kg though, which should buy a little more wiggle room. What's holding me back at the moment is lack of fitness (I only started running again in December after 6 months off with a partly broken ankle).

76kg is the upper bound of what I want to weigh once I'm through this. Last time I weighed that much I still had a bit of a spare tyre. At the current rate of weight loss it's going to be the end of the year though, so a long way to go.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2182 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:00:00 pm »
so the interval session i had to do on monday, i did on thursday as the knee felt better. all went well, however today the knee pain is back again and in addition to that my left groin started aching. i suspect that there is a problem of misalignment, as my left trainer is near the end of it's life. i still want to run 10k tt on sunday, but no dramas if i have to delay this, depending how i feel.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2183 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:25:10 pm »
Well, on my C25K journey, I did 8k this morning!    :thumbsup:

Cogitating my progress I think that the most psychologically difficult bit was going from run/walk to just run.  In two weeks I plan to set a 1 hour time for my long run and just see where that gets me.  I'm not quick and don't expect to break any records but I have been making tentative plans for a half marathon in October, lockdown or not.


Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2184 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:31:42 pm »
so the interval session i had to do on monday, i did on thursday as the knee felt better. all went well, however today the knee pain is back again and in addition to that my left groin started aching. i suspect that there is a problem of misalignment, as my left trainer is near the end of it's life. i still want to run 10k tt on sunday, but no dramas if i have to delay this, depending how i feel.

Remember the old adage - never try and run through an injury.  It'll come back to bite you.

See upthread for my recent problem.  I was pretty sure the initial injury was healed and did all the right things in terms of laying off exercise, allowing a decent recovery period, RICE, etc, but still have managed to put myself out of action for weeks if not months.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2185 on: 15 May, 2020, 01:39:12 pm »
Well, on my C25K journey, I did 8k this morning!    :thumbsup:

Cogitating my progress I think that the most psychologically difficult bit was going from run/walk to just run.  In two weeks I plan to set a 1 hour time for my long run and just see where that gets me.  I'm not quick and don't expect to break any records but I have been making tentative plans for a half marathon in October, lockdown or not.

Well done!

At 10% increase per week it's only ~8 weeks from 8k up to 21k, although that's a bit simplistic, no reason why you can't take more time to get there. There's no reason not to target October for a HM.

I love the HM distance. It's far enough to feel like a real achievement but you don't have to worry about feeding or hydration that much (I carry a single 500ml hand bottle on an HM and make sure I'm nicely hydrated before starting - not too much that I want to go for a wee all the time though). I did a month of morning HMs on empty stomachs (I even ran one at the end of a 36h fast although I was carrying some gels just in case as I really didn't know how that was going to go).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2186 on: 17 May, 2020, 02:57:32 pm »
I gave running another go on wed. Stuck to the road to see if my old joints were better with that.
A few twinges, as usual, ran a PB for 10km. So far so good. Hip sore as expected. Went paddling on thursday. Bit pathetic, bit slow. Not awful though.

Friday afternoon someone dropped 100kg of lead weights on me. Ended up abandoning work by 4pm, collapsed on sofa. By Sat I have a sore throat, headache, can't eat, utterly exhausted, drifting in an out of sleep all day.

Yup, looks like i have the bug. Just when paddling has been opened up again.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2187 on: 17 May, 2020, 05:38:32 pm »
I gave running another go on wed. Stuck to the road to see if my old joints were better with that.
A few twinges, as usual, ran a PB for 10km. So far so good. Hip sore as expected. Went paddling on thursday. Bit pathetic, bit slow. Not awful though.

Friday afternoon someone dropped 100kg of lead weights on me. Ended up abandoning work by 4pm, collapsed on sofa. By Sat I have a sore throat, headache, can't eat, utterly exhausted, drifting in an out of sleep all day.

Yup, looks like i have the bug. Just when paddling has been opened up again.

Get well soon Mr C and don’t rush back to exercise/work, not that that will be top of your mind now I imagine.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2188 on: 17 May, 2020, 05:42:24 pm »
5 runs and 1 bike ride this week, for 37 miles running and 14 riding. 11 today, mostly off road. Definitely time for an easy day tomorrow I think.

Still, nice to be in one piece and I love the wild garlic and bluebells I’ve been running through the last couple of weeks.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2189 on: 17 May, 2020, 07:51:14 pm »
Today's Garmin training plan thingy called for a "long, easy run" - 70 minutes (including 5 mins warm up and 5 mins cool down) which seems weird, as I only signed up to the 10k plan!). In the hope that the rain would keep the hordes away, I opted for the canal path. Still more people than usual about, still some folks who don't seem to understand the concept of single file. ???

Wasn't too bad. Found it quite useful to have an actual pace range to stick to, as I'm guilty of just going at the same pace all the time. Next up is another easy but shorter run (:thumbsup:), then later in the week "speed repeats" of 1 min on/1 min off, which sound horrendous!

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2190 on: 17 May, 2020, 10:12:45 pm »
so the interval session i had to do on monday, i did on thursday as the knee felt better. all went well, however today the knee pain is back again and in addition to that my left groin started aching. i suspect that there is a problem of misalignment, as my left trainer is near the end of it's life. i still want to run 10k tt on sunday, but no dramas if i have to delay this, depending how i feel.

so, as planned, set out to run a max effort 10k today, but ran out of steam after 5k and called it quits at 6k when i saw that sub-40 is out of reach. i was overheating and the left leg did not feel 100%; might have to move my goals by a week or two into the future.


Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2191 on: 17 May, 2020, 10:27:16 pm »
I did about 10km on Sunday (9 and a bit followed by C25k early stages with Miss Dan the Elder). That was my first run for a few weeks, coupled with much less walking on lockdown and not walking the hills, I'm feeling it today.

I felt that for several days. Yesterday I did 8 slightly less hilly km, and feel fine on it. So I'll build back up from there.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2192 on: 17 May, 2020, 10:35:30 pm »
Today's Garmin training plan thingy called for a "long, easy run" - 70 minutes (including 5 mins warm up and 5 mins cool down) which seems weird, as I only signed up to the 10k plan!). In the hope that the rain would keep the hordes away, I opted for the canal path. Still more people than usual about, still some folks who don't seem to understand the concept of single file. ???

Wasn't too bad. Found it quite useful to have an actual pace range to stick to, as I'm guilty of just going at the same pace all the time. Next up is another easy but shorter run (:thumbsup:), then later in the week "speed repeats" of 1 min on/1 min off, which sound horrendous!

One thing bandied around by the "80:20" running crowd is that most people do their fast runs too slow and their slow runs too fast, and so much of the coaching/training is trying to stop that.

I tend to do all of my running at about the same pace but I'm mostly doing it to lose weight rather than get faster (although I do get faster as I get fitter and lighter). Once I get down near my target weight I'm going to focus more on a more varied "proper" training plan.

But it's surprising just how slow a "slow" run should be.

Putting something like a target of 5min/km pace (50min 10k) into https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ (you don't need to enter your email address) gives 6:34-7:19/km pace for "long runs". That's a huge difference in pace!
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2193 on: 17 May, 2020, 10:48:27 pm »
Yup, looks like i have the bug.

Sorry to hear that, good luck.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2194 on: 21 May, 2020, 07:29:44 am »
Well bollocks, I've injured myself.

Hip pain, hobbling, on left side. I think I know what's done it, not running but yoga. I do yoga most days and last week I thought I'd concentrate on opening up my left hip as it is a lot tighter than the right. I do pigeon pose quite a lot as the cycling tends to tighten things up and there was a big difference in range on left and right.  Anyway, I was successful and a week of deep stretching opened the left.  Felt good to be able to do it.

Cue slightly weird feeling after last Friday's run like a tightness inside where the ham meets the pelvis. The next run felt worse but tightness and not pain, and on yesterdays run the pain arrived.

It seems obvious now that I've overstretched the ligaments and lost stability on the left, and running out of kilter has agitated everything.

So arsebollocks.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2195 on: 21 May, 2020, 09:17:30 am »
Commiserations. What makes being out of action much worse at the moment is every time I look out my window every bugger in the neighbourhood is out running - 10 times more than usual.  Old folks, families with kids, furloughed marathon runners - everyone but me!  My jealousy is unbridled  ;D

The question is - can you cycle?  I couldn't even do that for the last 2 weeks, although I'm tentatively testing that out at the moment.  I'll be slowly cycling down to Waterloo for my ultrasound scan later so hopefully find out if I've done any major damage.
The sound of one pannier flapping

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2196 on: 21 May, 2020, 09:43:01 am »
8.5km this morning with 10 × 60s vo2 efforts at 3:26. might have another go at 10k pb as the weather cools down over the weekend.


Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2197 on: 21 May, 2020, 09:47:10 am »
Commiserations. What makes being out of action much worse at the moment is every time I look out my window every bugger in the neighbourhood is out running - 10 times more than usual.  Old folks, families with kids, furloughed marathon runners - everyone but me!  My jealousy is unbridled  ;D

The question is - can you cycle?  I couldn't even do that for the last 2 weeks, although I'm tentatively testing that out at the moment.  I'll be slowly cycling down to Waterloo for my ultrasound scan later so hopefully find out if I've done any major damage.

I probably shouldn't cycle.

I'm kicking myself, because I should have known that my hips are highly mobile anyway. I'll go for a gentle tentative ride later, but if there is a lack of stability it will aggravate the irritation that is already going on. I reckon I need to rest it until it feels normal...might take a few weeks

Fingers crossed for good news from your scan.

zigzag

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2198 on: 21 May, 2020, 02:47:32 pm »
it looks that most posters on this thread has picked up an injury of some sorts, including me. just goes to show how demanding running is on the joints, ligaments and muscles. on a bike you just sit locked in and move legs in one plain - very little to go wrong once the fit is sorted. when running, every step needs to be micro adjusted, due to irregularities of pavement, cornering; also, the stride and associated impact is different at different speeds.

i thought six weeks of mainly gentle running would be enough to get used to new stresses, but once i started structured training and intervals i've got an aching left knee - i believe it's a pulled sartorius muscle or some ligament on the inner side of the knee. when i go out, first kilometer is a bit "ooh!.. ahh!..", but then the pain mostly goes away once warmed up. so i'm keeping an eye on it.

take it easy, our bodies are quite good at healing themselves.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #2199 on: 21 May, 2020, 04:04:23 pm »
No injuries yet (anyone about to pick me up when I break something tomorrow)

Got bored with posting CV run updates (and did post an update in the rowing thread by mistake) but generally getting faster and further and looking to do some events in the autumn if they run and aren't massively over subscribed.

Hoping to take advantage of bank holiday and do a longer run but will have to adjust my speed downwards as usually running pre work I have a finite time scale.

Also possibly got a race with the 16/17 year old daughter of a guy who I used to run with as I saw him running shortly after seeing her running and my enquiry of did you catch her was a negative as she's much faster then him now.

I think she may just have the legs on me at the moment but maybe after another month or so of running could be a close er run thing