DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit

[Kim]

the kind of riding that these units are intended for

In general, GPS units are intended for one of two kinds of riding:

a) The sort you do in the hills, with sturdy boots and no bicycle.  (General-purpose outdoor handhelds, like the Garmin eTrex, GPSMap and similar)
b) 'Training'.  (Any cycling-oriented GPS device)

They can all show you a map, draw lines on it, tell you the distance to a waypoint, keep track of where you've been, odometers, average speeds, and so on.

Cycling-specific features tend to involve the ability to connect things like cadence and power sensors, and more advanced performance-oriented analytics.

The ability to plot a route from A to B along roads (as you'd use a car satnav) is a high-end feature unrelated to cycling-orientedness, and they're all fairly bad at it, because algorithmically determining a good cycling route is a surprisingly hard problem, and the maps aren't consistent in their handling of off-road paths.

If you're audaxing or touring, none of them are ideal.  You basically choose between the ones that will run for ages on AA batteries, or the ones with nice handelbar mounts that can speak to your expensive sensors but use an internal battery that won't last a whole 200.

[Hot Flatus]

Auto-routing??? 

Surely everybody knows that auto-routing is the very first thing you switch off on a Garmin

[Hot Flatus]

What you say is no doubt true for you and the kind of riding that you do, and indeed the kind of riding that these units are intended for, but as I said I have a stoker whose job it is to map read and enjoys a map.  We don't do night riding nor ride when that tired either.

Yanno.

It was a reply to Kim.

[chrisbainbridge]

Russell. For your use any of the modern units will work perfectly. Yes there is a learning curve but there is with all technology.
Komoot and ridewithgps both now automatically download to Garmin (and May to Karoo).
If the gps unit only turns on to tell you about an upcoming junction it will last about 400km. All can be charged with a battery pack whilst eating cake.

[Kim]

Auto-routing??? 

Surely everybody knows that auto-routing is the very first thing you switch off on a Garmin

Unless you want proper junction-aware turn directions on an eTrex 30/32x?

[Hot Flatus]

Not used an eTrex 20,30..but on the higher end models the auto-route was a pain. If you accidentally went off route and didn't realise it would recalculate the route occasionally sending you down some nasty roads. 

But as I said earlier, I am now 2 GPS units away from my last Garmin. The units I did use were Etrex Legend (2002) 60csx (about 2006) 705 (about 2008-2012) and the 800 which I didn't keep for long because it was utterly unreliable.

[Kim]

Not used an eTrex 20,30..but on the higher end models the auto-route was a pain. If you accidentally went off route and didn't realise it would recalculate the route occasionally sending you down some nasty roads.

Absolutely.  It takes a lot of effort to hand-craft a route in Basecamp that persuades auto-routing to go the way you want it to, and even then the device's algorithm doesn't quite match Basecamp's so it sometimes goes astray.

But it's the only way to get proper turn prompts.  (Yes, you can use proximity waypoints with instructions in the name as a work-around.)


I've said before that the eTrex 30 was the best unit Garmin have made.  The software was a retrograde step compared to the Vista HCx, but the more robust hardware cancelled that out.  The eTrex 32x is ostensibly just an eTrex 30 with more onboard storage and a higher-resolution display, but the screen is murky crap that needs backlight or direct sunlight to read, like those on the Edge series.

[Hot Flatus]

I started out using MemoryMap on a PC with serial cables and a connection more akin to using a ouija board, because it was 20 years ago and Web based stuff didn't exist. Then onto a free UK OS map based thing whose name I cant remember despite using it for yonks. Fuck, that's really bugging me now. I remember the developer was called Simon and he had a PayPal link, and if you bunged him a fiver (which I did every now and again) he seemed surprised, and almost shocked. He put on a gpxx extention for the 705, and IIRC you could get good TBT routing. Also used it for the 800, but that was FIT files.  Obviously RWGPS is ubiquitous now, and so easy to use.

[JonBuoy]

I started out using MemoryMap on a PC with serial cables and a connection more akin to using a ouija board, because it was 20 years ago and Web based stuff didn't exist. Then onto a free UK OS map based thing whose name I cant remember despite using it for yonks. Fuck, that's really bugging me now. I remember the developer was called Simon and he had a PayPal link, and if you bunged him a fiver (which I did every now and again) he seemed surprised, and almost shocked. He put on a gpxx extention for the 705, and IIRC you could get good TBT routing. Also used it for the 800, but that was FIT files.  Obviously RWGPS is ubiquitous now, and so easy to use.

That sounds like www.bikehike.co.uk

[Hot Flatus]

Ah that was it. Thx 

[Frank9755]

I look fondly back on the 705. I kept it going for ages, replacing the battery twice. Eventually it was the weather sealing that failed and it would shut down when really wet.

Truth is, if I were to try using one now I'd hate it. The development of these devices seems slowly incremental...but if you put a decade between them they resemble something from the stone age.

I bought your old 705 on here.  I have had a few 705s as I couldn't get interested in another device.  My original one had gone a bit cranky after about 10 years, and a couple of others that I bought second hand also had issues.  Yours was the best, though, it worked flawlessly (and I didn't have any issues in the wet!). Unfortunately I left it in the underground car park at the NatWest Tower when I took it off the bike and put it on a handy ledge, and forgot about it.

I almost fired up a couple of old 705s during recent GPS woes.  I still think they do what I want at least as well as anything more recent.  But none of my stable are completely robust - they all crash now and again, or lose a track.  If I still had your old one I might still be using it!

[Hot Flatus]

I genuinely don't remember selling it to you, but I'm glad it worked well, especially in the wet. I may have resealed it with silicone, but again I can't remember. Think I had replaced the battery though. 

I suppose the big advantage of today's devices over the 705 is the cable free synching, especially as I rarely use any sort of computer at home apart from my phone.

[Russell]

Re-posted this in the     "What is the current favourite GPS?"   thread so ignore wot I have rote here.

Having been outbid on a cheap (turned out to be not so cheap) Mio 505 I've looking around and come across the Mio Cyclo 210.  An Ebay seller has NOS for a resonable price.  Reviews seem favourable and the unit comes across as a no bells or whistles device that sounds like the thing we are after.  My only concern is, although the reviews state the ability to upload gpx to the device, no-one comments on following them without using the navigation function.  I think upthread someone commented on this but I am looking for reassurance.

Thanks

R

[Sergeant Pluck]

But as I said earlier, I am now 2 GPS units away from my last Garmin.

How is it going now with the Karoo2? I think I am ready for a new GPS, and what is interesting me about the Karoo, among other things, is that I think it has the most easily seen display for at-a-glance TBT following. Reviews seem positive but somewhat at odds with your comments above.

[Hot Flatus]

Haven't used it since mid March (2nd covid fucked my long distance riding), but it did get quite a few 200k trips out before then. I can't remember what I said upthread but I think it is pretty good IF you are willing to scratch around a bit to find out how to use it. The online instructions are not comprehensive, it isn't entirely intuitive, and you have to find out whether it can do the things you hope it can.

Only real gripe is that you can't change font size and tbt instructions are they are too small for my hyperopic eyes to read. Again, this may change, they may decide to incorporate this into a firmware change but they won't tell you when they do it.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Thanks Flatus. I see on Reddit that you are not alone in thinking the font size is too small, which negates the benefit of a decent display. I'll hold off buying for now until I know more about that issue.

[Horizon]

Now they've been bought out by SRAM, one would hope there is some more money available for development - they're certainly spending it on advertising, paper and online, there's been a noticeable increase. I've queried why they can't have a left or right option for the Varia radar info - it's counter-intuitive to have it on the left when cycing on the left - they're not interested in adding it. Crazy, it must be the simplest thing to do, Garmin have it, RidewithGPS have it. The Karoo is still on my 'interested' list, but for now my Bolt 1 soldiers on (despite Wahoo constantly messing up the software).

[Sergeant Pluck]

Now they've been bought out by SRAM

And immediately Shimano acted to ensure the Karoo won't work with Di2...

[Hot Flatus]

Other way round, Simon!

SRAM removed support for di2 from Karoo.

Anyway, IIRC chrisbainbridge is a user and has some incisive things to say about it.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

SRAM removed support for Di2 because Shimano withdrew their approval for Karoo to interface with Di2.

[Horizon]

I did read on their forum a couple of weeks ago (although I can't find it now) that a fix was in the works for the Di2 issue. My other beefs are failure to address battery life and the lack of live tracking for MrsHorizon to see where I am. Seems to me they should pause their fortnightly software updates/feature adds and fix the basics.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I’m new to Di2 but so far the only really useful thing I find with the admittedly basic Wahoo Elemnt / Di2 interface is being able to use the buttons on the shifters to change page and to zoom in. Battery life etc., I get from the E-Tube app, although I suppose a low battery warning on the GPS screen could prove useful some day.

[Horizon]

What about knowing what gear you're in? I find the visual representation of this on my Bolt invaluable, having used it I wouldn't want to lose it. It's also mildly amusing to know I've changed gear 147 times and my most used gear is 46/16 (for example) on my post ride analysis.

[Sergeant Pluck]

What about knowing what gear you're in? I find the visual representation of this on my Bolt invaluable, having used it I wouldn't want to lose it. It's also mildly amusing to know I've changed gear 147 times and my most used gear is 46/16 (for example) on my post ride analysis.

I’m still at the stage where I’m just enjoying the shifting! I do have the gear graph on there. Guess it would be good on a long steep one when you are wondering if you have any lower gears left? 
Where are you getting the most used gear data from? Maybe the Elemnt doesn’t have that.

[Horizon]

On the app, select History > select the map of the saved ride > scroll down to see all the data for that ride, based on the cards you have chosen to be displayed (tap on the three sliders at the top of the screen to select). This is iOS, no doubt Android is similar. I'm using eTap, but again I assume Di2 is similar.