Author Topic: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.  (Read 3585 times)

redshift

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #25 on: 02 December, 2010, 09:03:00 pm »
Kinda depends what the rest of the structure is.  If it's bugs with an arsenic transplant, then they're probably relict archaea with a toxic environment and "ornery" dialled up to eleven. 

Yah.  Just think what it'll be like when they've evolved to the point of opposable psuedopodia...   :o

But we're the ultimate badasses in our niche.  They can bring it.

(with thanks to Neal Stephenson)

Technically we're the only badasses in our niche...

...for now.   ;D
L
:)
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clarion

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #26 on: 02 December, 2010, 10:00:23 pm »
Just waiting until our spaceship is fixed....  ;)

*curses Maplin and their poor stock control*

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Pedaldog.

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #27 on: 02 December, 2010, 10:17:23 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/L1Xn-DWHuuM&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/L1Xn-DWHuuM&rel=1</a>

Thank you Clarion for reminding me of my absolute;y favourite bit of my absolutely favourite film EVER!  I've watched it even more than Belleville Rendevouz!
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David Martin

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #28 on: 02 December, 2010, 10:53:16 pm »
It's not as spectacularly different as I first thought, apparently it only incorporates arsenic into its DNA when phosphorous is hard to come by.

Guardian science.


That is a pretty big 'only'.

It is a momentous paper (I've just read it). However, the data presented is just one strand of the puzzle. They provide evidence that if you purify the genomic DNA from the bacterium  you get a) an anomalously high As:C ratio and low P:C ratio to what you would expect and b) X-ray edge diffraction techniques indicate that the As is in valence state (V) and probably bound as C-O -As(=0)2-O-C which would be a direct equivalent of the phosphorous in DNA.

So it looks very much like it but the evidence is not conclusive - strongly suggestive, yes, but not conclusive.

What is interesting is the chemistry. As is a direct analogue of P but is far more reactive, hence molecules are less stable. Also, the way they are assembled may be dependent on quantum effects in the enzyme mechanisms, which will be affected by the change in electron shell structure between As and P.

I can imagine that very soon we will have the complete DNA sequence of the organism and be able to start reconstructing the machinery in vitro to assess this chemical conjuring capability.

In other words 'Fairly normal bug but it has learned how to tolerate Arsenic'. I think we will find many more, especially with trace elements if we look hard enough in the right places.

Should keep the coffee room conversation going tomorrow though.
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Rhys W

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #29 on: 02 December, 2010, 11:59:10 pm »
In other words 'Fairly normal bug but it has learned how to tolerate Arsenic'.

That was my point - the pre-announcement build-up hinted at extra-terrestial life, and then my initial understanding was that a parallel but separate life form had started on this planet.

But yeah, a pretty momentous discovery.

itsbruce

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #30 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:17:28 am »
It's the first ever evidence that life has emerged more than once.

Since the chemistry's totally different, it has to be a whole separate instance   :o


Not necessarily.  If you don't believe that RNA/DNA was the first basis of life, but rather is a mechanism which evolved from more basic self-replicating patterns, then we may share a common ancestor with those bacteria.

Edit: I wrote the above before seeing the further details, so it's clear we share a common ancestor.  Unless you think it likely that the entire DNA-based cell structure evolved more than once, entirely separately.
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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #31 on: 03 December, 2010, 02:44:56 am »

The lake is poisonous.  One assumes with arsenic, so the source was there, which means that what we have are awesome locals, and a whole new class of stuff to consider when looking for exolife.

The lake (Mono Lake) is in a natural sump, with no outflow. It's fed by snowmelt from the Sierra Nevada mountains, and loses water to evaporation. Presumably the snowmelt brings in a fair amount of minerals which remain behind as the water evaporates, so the salinity and mineral content have been increasing over the millennia. There has also been a fair bit of volcanic activity in the area over the years, which may have added to the mineral content of the water. In 1941, the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power started diverting water from Rush Creek, the major inflow to the lake, into their aqueduct system. This caused the lake's level to drop, and greatly increased the salinity and the concentration of various minerals in the lake. The water diversion was stopped in 1994, and the lake is returning to its original level.

My question is, did these life forms evolve as the lake naturally became more saline, or did LADWP inadvertently help the process along by reducing water levels and thereby increasing the concentration of various minerals?

Trivia: In "Roughing It", Mark Twain describes a visit to this lake, including capsizing a rowboat while trying to reach one of the islands.

More trivia: The photo of the diver in the Pink Floyd album "Wish You Were Here" was taken at this lake.

Mono Lake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Mr Larrington

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #32 on: 03 December, 2010, 12:56:04 pm »
More trivia: Fast Freddy Markham won the Dupont Prize for being the first cyclist to exceed 65 mph on a nominally-level road at Mono Lake in 1986.
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Pancho

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #33 on: 03 December, 2010, 01:16:18 pm »
a nominally-level road

I've ridden on a few of those, I think; despite the OS maps indicating otherwise they are always just perceptibly uphill and have a headwind.

Mr Larrington

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #34 on: 03 December, 2010, 01:23:01 pm »
I've driven along the Mono Lake course a couple of times and it looked like a hill to me...
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Rhys W

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Re: It's life Jim, but not as we know it.
« Reply #35 on: 07 December, 2010, 02:01:27 pm »
The paper has not been without it's critics: NASA defends paper - The Guardian.

Over to you Dr Martin...