Author Topic: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG  (Read 165141 times)

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #875 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:19:24 pm »
I've been reading this, and find it a little overblown. I get it that the whole royalist thing is in itself controversial, but it's not controversial just because one of them has died. Like all people, the deceased and their family deserve a little respect if only because of their grief.

As for his character, yes - if the reports are correct - he was irascible, intolerant of fools, witty, extremely competent at his profession as a naval officer, and very much a product of his time in his political incorrectness! My father was a little younger (and died four years ago), but had a similar service upbringing and a career to very senior level (RAF Board level) in the RAF. Reading those quotes from PP, I can almost hear my father talking  - and I cringe now, as I did often in his company. He was 'racist' in the strictest definition of the word in that he adopted stereotypical memes about people and where they came from, but he would never have dreamed of prejudging any individual - and, like PP, there were many, many people of all ethnicities who would sing his praises. It took me some time to come to terms with the discordance between those two parts of his character. Like Philip, he was a decent man born in times when attitudes were different, and like many old people, he found it difficult to adapt to the expectations of those younger than himself with different sensitivities.

They've gone. Let it lie.

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #876 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:26:13 pm »
I think you might have just accidentally agreed with my previous post.  :P

(perhaps apart from legacy)

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #877 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:31:49 pm »
I think you might have just accidentally agreed with my previous post.  :P

(perhaps apart from legacy)

Oh shit. That's not allowed!

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #878 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:33:28 pm »
It's definitely not a good look

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #879 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:37:17 pm »
You're talking to a man who had to wear Vivienne Westwood clothes for the last 10 years. I long since gave up caring what a 'good look' is!

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #880 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:40:43 pm »
You got off lightly


TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #881 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:45:02 pm »
Yeah. Fortunately there was nowhere to put four stripes on that version!

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #882 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:48:02 pm »
They're on the bag, Tim,  (which presumably also contains his "getting home safely clothes" - or a gun).

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #883 on: 11 April, 2021, 09:51:11 pm »
Well, if they change their minds thank god I'm now retired!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #884 on: 11 April, 2021, 11:13:47 pm »
Quote
. He was 'racist' in the strictest definition of the word in that he adopted stereotypical memes about people and where they came from, but he would never have dreamed of prejudging any individual - and, like PP, there were many, many people of all ethnicities who would sing his praises.
That is a very odd definition of racism, Tim.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #885 on: 12 April, 2021, 02:01:49 am »
Quote
. He was 'racist' in the strictest definition of the word in that he adopted stereotypical memes about people and where they came from, but he would never have dreamed of prejudging any individual - and, like PP, there were many, many people of all ethnicities who would sing his praises.
That is a very odd definition of racism, Tim.

I guess it's not a definition, Matt, it's more a description. And I'm not attempting to to define racism - I'm trying to illustrate that they were racist by some standards but not by others. Of course, perception depends on perspective and mine is inevitably the wrong one.

Beardy

  • Shedist
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #886 on: 12 April, 2021, 07:29:52 am »
BONG: Old man who lived in public view met a lot of people during his life. They all want their 5 minutes of fame and the Medja are happy to oblige them ALL. Also in other news, he’s still ded.
For every complex problem in the world, there is a simple and easily understood solution that’s wrong.

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #887 on: 12 April, 2021, 08:09:59 am »
Quote
. He was 'racist' in the strictest definition of the word in that he adopted stereotypical memes about people and where they came from, but he would never have dreamed of prejudging any individual - and, like PP, there were many, many people of all ethnicities who would sing his praises.
That is a very odd definition of racism, Tim.

I guess it's not a definition, Matt, it's more a description. And I'm not attempting to to define racism - I'm trying to illustrate that they were racist by some standards but not by others. Of course, perception depends on perspective and mine is inevitably the wrong one.

I think I made a similar point earlier yesterday to the one Tim made last night. He had to stay up drinking until 2am to cope with the shame.

It would have been a miracle for PP not to be a racist, given the era in which he was born, the social circumstances in which he was born, and the institutions in which he placed himself. He married a woman who was just a few years short of being the head of an active Empire, a massive racist project. (and by that, I mean that by her coronation the Empire was being dismantled)  He put himself deeply into the institutions of the military, the machinery of this project (yes, I know Tim will hate that bit). So, I don't think he was exactly a woke libtard.  Racism is racism. It doesn't become a lesser form of racism just because everybody around you is also racist. It is what it is and he was no radical.

Where I am in agreement with Tim is that it isn't fair to be anachronistic in one's assessment of people. You have to judge them by the standards of their time to some extent, at least in terms of their own moral standing amongst the people around them. In this sense it is interesting to see the debate about Churchill's racism play out, because whilst the apologists seek refuge in the abhorrent views of the time, the academics will point out that his views were highly unpalatable even to his peers.

Of course, people may point to times Philip was polite to black people, or indeed treated them with respect, but that is what happens to people close to you. It is much harder to regard them as other. Queen Victoria had an Indian servant, Abdul Karim, with whom she became very close, almost to the point of embarassment. After she died, Edward VII sent him back to India and had all traces of his correspondance with Victoria destroyed.


ian

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #888 on: 12 April, 2021, 09:26:25 am »
Pah. My grandad was more racist than yours.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #889 on: 12 April, 2021, 09:56:06 am »
Do you ever make a glib, throwaway comment and wish you hadn't bothered?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #890 on: 12 April, 2021, 09:59:12 am »
Can we at least keep things civil until the pubs open at 12pm

FFS what has the world come to when it is me...fucking ME!...that is the peacekeeper. Jeez.   ;D ;D ;D

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #891 on: 12 April, 2021, 10:00:24 am »
Do you ever make a glib, throwaway comment and wish you hadn't bothered?
Yeah, but when you're the Duke of Edinburgh, it's kind of expected.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

ian

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #892 on: 12 April, 2021, 10:12:04 am »
Do you ever make a glib, throwaway comment and wish you hadn't bothered?

Several times a day, and that's just on here.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #893 on: 12 April, 2021, 11:19:15 am »
Do you ever make a glib, throwaway comment and wish you hadn't bothered?
Yeah, but when you're the Duke of Edinburgh, it's kind of expected.

 ;D
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #894 on: 12 April, 2021, 11:21:18 am »
>>> BONNNGGG <<<

Man makes journey to attend funeral of recently-deceased relative*.

No prizes for guessing who's splashed all over the front page of the tabloids this morning.

* allegedly
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #895 on: 12 April, 2021, 07:33:17 pm »
Quote
. He was 'racist' in the strictest definition of the word in that he adopted stereotypical memes about people and where they came from, but he would never have dreamed of prejudging any individual - and, like PP, there were many, many people of all ethnicities who would sing his praises.
That is a very odd definition of racism, Tim.

I guess it's not a definition, Matt, it's more a description. And I'm not attempting to to define racism - I'm trying to illustrate that they were racist by some standards but not by others. Of course, perception depends on perspective and mine is inevitably the wrong one.
If you are describing your own father, I wouldn't assume your perspective is wrong.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #896 on: 12 April, 2021, 07:34:59 pm »
Do you ever make a glib, throwaway comment and wish you hadn't bothered?
;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #897 on: 18 April, 2021, 08:49:41 am »
Brothers talk at grandfathers funeral *shocker*
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56788998
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #898 on: 21 April, 2021, 06:49:52 pm »
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: BONG ..And Here is the Not News..BONG
« Reply #899 on: 21 April, 2021, 08:19:29 pm »
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.